Pirates vs Cubbies - 8/16 - Game Thread
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Pirates vs Cubbies - 8/16 - Game Thread
I want to lose but I HATE the effen Cubs, so YES!
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Roberto218
- Posts: 257
- Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 5:55 pm
Pirates vs Cubbies - 8/16 - Game Thread
Just win !
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JollyRoger
- Posts: 1469
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:31 pm
Pirates vs Cubbies - 8/16 - Game Thread
Where are all the Hurdle bashers????
He pulled Musgrove and brought in Vazquez in the 8th inning.
Vazquez blew the lead; gotta be that idiot Hurdle who almost lost the game again right? No wrong. Point being; outside of Vazquez who gave up an extra base hit to a lefty for the first time since April; Hurdle has no one who is trustworthy in the bullpen. It is a total crap shoot.
He pulled Musgrove and brought in Vazquez in the 8th inning.
Vazquez blew the lead; gotta be that idiot Hurdle who almost lost the game again right? No wrong. Point being; outside of Vazquez who gave up an extra base hit to a lefty for the first time since April; Hurdle has no one who is trustworthy in the bullpen. It is a total crap shoot.
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Bobster21
Pirates vs Cubbies - 8/16 - Game Thread
1F3A39392C073A323027550 wrote: Where are all the Hurdle bashers????
He pulled Musgrove and brought in Vazquez in the 8th inning.
Vazquez blew the lead; gotta be that idiot Hurdle who almost lost the game again right? No wrong. Point being; outside of Vazquez who gave up an extra base hit to a lefty for the first time since April; Hurdle has no one who is trustworthy in the bullpen. It is a total crap shoot.
I think you answered your own question. No one is "bashing" Hurdle because he made the logical decision. Musgrove had been pitching great but gave up 2 hits in the 8th to put runners on 1B and 3B with 1 out and holding a slim 1-0 lead. Too often Hurdle doesn't make the logical move (like losing game after game in the late innings using every reliever (who as you noted are not trustworthy) except his best (Volquez). Last night he made the logical decision. It didn't work out but no one is criticizing Hurdle for doing what made the most sense. Your comment about "all the Hurdle bashers" seems to suggest that Hurdle never makes a bad decision and receives criticism only because "Hurdle bashers" have an agenda to criticize him regardless of what he does. But as you noted, no one is being critical of him when he makes a logical decision, even if it doesn't turn out as well as hoped. Could it possibly be that Hurdle gets criticized for his odd decisions and not criticized for his logical decisions? Not everyone has an agenda.
He pulled Musgrove and brought in Vazquez in the 8th inning.
Vazquez blew the lead; gotta be that idiot Hurdle who almost lost the game again right? No wrong. Point being; outside of Vazquez who gave up an extra base hit to a lefty for the first time since April; Hurdle has no one who is trustworthy in the bullpen. It is a total crap shoot.
I think you answered your own question. No one is "bashing" Hurdle because he made the logical decision. Musgrove had been pitching great but gave up 2 hits in the 8th to put runners on 1B and 3B with 1 out and holding a slim 1-0 lead. Too often Hurdle doesn't make the logical move (like losing game after game in the late innings using every reliever (who as you noted are not trustworthy) except his best (Volquez). Last night he made the logical decision. It didn't work out but no one is criticizing Hurdle for doing what made the most sense. Your comment about "all the Hurdle bashers" seems to suggest that Hurdle never makes a bad decision and receives criticism only because "Hurdle bashers" have an agenda to criticize him regardless of what he does. But as you noted, no one is being critical of him when he makes a logical decision, even if it doesn't turn out as well as hoped. Could it possibly be that Hurdle gets criticized for his odd decisions and not criticized for his logical decisions? Not everyone has an agenda.
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JollyRoger
- Posts: 1469
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:31 pm
Pirates vs Cubbies - 8/16 - Game Thread
597479686F7E69292A1B0 wrote: Where are all the Hurdle bashers????
He pulled Musgrove and brought in Vazquez in the 8th inning.
Vazquez blew the lead; gotta be that idiot Hurdle who almost lost the game again right? No wrong. Point being; outside of Vazquez who gave up an extra base hit to a lefty for the first time since April; Hurdle has no one who is trustworthy in the bullpen. It is a total crap shoot.
I think you answered your own question. No one is "bashing" Hurdle because he made the logical decision. Musgrove had been pitching great but gave up 2 hits in the 8th to put runners on 1B and 3B with 1 out and holding a slim 1-0 lead. Too often Hurdle doesn't make the logical move (like losing game after game in the late innings using every reliever (who as you noted are not trustworthy) except his best (Volquez). Last night he made the logical decision. It didn't work out but no one is criticizing Hurdle for doing what made the most sense. Your comment about "all the Hurdle bashers" seems to suggest that Hurdle never makes a bad decision and receives criticism only because "Hurdle bashers" have an agenda to criticize him regardless of what he does. But as you noted, no one is being critical of him when he makes a logical decision, even if it doesn't turn out as well as hoped. Could it possibly be that Hurdle gets criticized for his odd decisions and not criticized for his logical decisions? Not everyone has an agenda.
Like all Managers, Hurdle has made decisions that have not worked out. Are all of those “bad” decisions? Only if you are looking at them from a Monday morning quarterbacking position.
I do think we have a few over reactionary posters. I get that, because as fans we put our hearts out there.
When I look at a Manager I try to evaluate them in total. Not just wins and losses, but are they good communicators. Are they fair and not giving preferential treatment. Are they good role models. Do they give back to the community. I think Hurdle has many more pluses than minuses. I doubt anyone could come in and do better with the same resources and roster provided. To make a change just to make a change is foolish. As they say; it would be expecting change by doing the same thing over and over.
We all know where the real problems lie. (NUTTING).
However the Bucs have also done a poor job of talent evaluation both in the draft and in the acquisition of players.
The Manager is only as good as the talent given to him.
He pulled Musgrove and brought in Vazquez in the 8th inning.
Vazquez blew the lead; gotta be that idiot Hurdle who almost lost the game again right? No wrong. Point being; outside of Vazquez who gave up an extra base hit to a lefty for the first time since April; Hurdle has no one who is trustworthy in the bullpen. It is a total crap shoot.
I think you answered your own question. No one is "bashing" Hurdle because he made the logical decision. Musgrove had been pitching great but gave up 2 hits in the 8th to put runners on 1B and 3B with 1 out and holding a slim 1-0 lead. Too often Hurdle doesn't make the logical move (like losing game after game in the late innings using every reliever (who as you noted are not trustworthy) except his best (Volquez). Last night he made the logical decision. It didn't work out but no one is criticizing Hurdle for doing what made the most sense. Your comment about "all the Hurdle bashers" seems to suggest that Hurdle never makes a bad decision and receives criticism only because "Hurdle bashers" have an agenda to criticize him regardless of what he does. But as you noted, no one is being critical of him when he makes a logical decision, even if it doesn't turn out as well as hoped. Could it possibly be that Hurdle gets criticized for his odd decisions and not criticized for his logical decisions? Not everyone has an agenda.
Like all Managers, Hurdle has made decisions that have not worked out. Are all of those “bad” decisions? Only if you are looking at them from a Monday morning quarterbacking position.
I do think we have a few over reactionary posters. I get that, because as fans we put our hearts out there.
When I look at a Manager I try to evaluate them in total. Not just wins and losses, but are they good communicators. Are they fair and not giving preferential treatment. Are they good role models. Do they give back to the community. I think Hurdle has many more pluses than minuses. I doubt anyone could come in and do better with the same resources and roster provided. To make a change just to make a change is foolish. As they say; it would be expecting change by doing the same thing over and over.
We all know where the real problems lie. (NUTTING).
However the Bucs have also done a poor job of talent evaluation both in the draft and in the acquisition of players.
The Manager is only as good as the talent given to him.
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skinnyhorse
- Posts: 926
- Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:19 am
Pirates vs Cubbies - 8/16 - Game Thread
Like all Managers, Hurdle has made decisions that have not worked out. Are all of those “bad” decisions? Only if you are looking at them from a Monday morning quarterbacking position.
I do think we have a few over reactionary posters. I get that, because as fans we put our hearts out there.
When I look at a Manager I try to evaluate them in total. Not just wins and losses, but are they good communicators. Are they fair and not giving preferential treatment. Are they good role models. Do they give back to the community. I think Hurdle has many more pluses than minuses. I doubt anyone could come in and do better with the same resources and roster provided. To make a change just to make a change is foolish. As they say; it would be expecting change by doing the same thing over and over.
We all know where the real problems lie. (NUTTING).
However the Bucs have also done a poor job of talent evaluation both in the draft and in the acquisition of players.
The Manager is only as good as the talent given to him.
What a crock of BS. Sounds sooooo noble and everything but this is nothing but excuses (a loser mentality) for a has been (never really successful) manager and the FO. These clowns could manage to mess up a crowbar in a sand pile. Stuff like this is exactly how you have a losing record for 20 plus straight years. St. Louis fired Matheney in the mist of the season last year because his team was underperforming, he went to the playoffs 4 out 7 years he managed and never had a losing season. Pittsburgh needs to replicate St. Louis's baseball team. This Lesa fare attitude by fans allow what is happening to the Pirates. Where's the can do attitude, the I'm going fight, I'm so sick of this crap. If NH can't get the job done hire someone who can don't tell me it can't be done it can, but not with this kind of I'm OK, we can't do anything about it attitude.
I do think we have a few over reactionary posters. I get that, because as fans we put our hearts out there.
When I look at a Manager I try to evaluate them in total. Not just wins and losses, but are they good communicators. Are they fair and not giving preferential treatment. Are they good role models. Do they give back to the community. I think Hurdle has many more pluses than minuses. I doubt anyone could come in and do better with the same resources and roster provided. To make a change just to make a change is foolish. As they say; it would be expecting change by doing the same thing over and over.
We all know where the real problems lie. (NUTTING).
However the Bucs have also done a poor job of talent evaluation both in the draft and in the acquisition of players.
The Manager is only as good as the talent given to him.
What a crock of BS. Sounds sooooo noble and everything but this is nothing but excuses (a loser mentality) for a has been (never really successful) manager and the FO. These clowns could manage to mess up a crowbar in a sand pile. Stuff like this is exactly how you have a losing record for 20 plus straight years. St. Louis fired Matheney in the mist of the season last year because his team was underperforming, he went to the playoffs 4 out 7 years he managed and never had a losing season. Pittsburgh needs to replicate St. Louis's baseball team. This Lesa fare attitude by fans allow what is happening to the Pirates. Where's the can do attitude, the I'm going fight, I'm so sick of this crap. If NH can't get the job done hire someone who can don't tell me it can't be done it can, but not with this kind of I'm OK, we can't do anything about it attitude.
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JollyRoger
- Posts: 1469
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:31 pm
Pirates vs Cubbies - 8/16 - Game Thread
3D252720203726213C3D2B4E0 wrote: Like all Managers, Hurdle has made decisions that have not worked out. Are all of those “bad” decisions? Only if you are looking at them from a Monday morning quarterbacking position.
I do think we have a few over reactionary posters. I get that, because as fans we put our hearts out there.
When I look at a Manager I try to evaluate them in total. Not just wins and losses, but are they good communicators. Are they fair and not giving preferential treatment. Are they good role models. Do they give back to the community. I think Hurdle has many more pluses than minuses. I doubt anyone could come in and do better with the same resources and roster provided. To make a change just to make a change is foolish. As they say; it would be expecting change by doing the same thing over and over.
We all know where the real problems lie. (NUTTING).
However the Bucs have also done a poor job of talent evaluation both in the draft and in the acquisition of players.
The Manager is only as good as the talent given to him.
What a crock of BS. Sounds sooooo noble and everything but this is nothing but excuses (a loser mentality) for a has been (never really successful) manager and the FO. These clowns could manage to mess up a crowbar in a sand pile. Stuff like this is exactly how you have a losing record for 20 plus straight years. St. Louis fired Matheney in the mist of the season last year because his team was underperforming, he went to the playoffs 4 out 7 years he managed and never had a losing season. Pittsburgh needs to replicate St. Louis's baseball team. This Lesa fare attitude by fans allow what is happening to the Pirates. Where's the can do attitude, the I'm going fight, I'm so sick of this crap. If NH can't get the job done hire someone who can don't tell me it can't be done it can, but not with this kind of I'm OK, we can't do anything about it attitude.
First of All I am not supporting NH and I have been the biggest critic of Nutting long before the rest of this board joined in.
As usual you put the emphasis of the blame on Hurdle. If you want to be reactionary and use him as a scapegoat fine; but that will not solve the problem. The problem is the lack of financial resources provided by Nutting and the poor job of talent acquisition by the FO in the draft, International signings and trades.
I do think we have a few over reactionary posters. I get that, because as fans we put our hearts out there.
When I look at a Manager I try to evaluate them in total. Not just wins and losses, but are they good communicators. Are they fair and not giving preferential treatment. Are they good role models. Do they give back to the community. I think Hurdle has many more pluses than minuses. I doubt anyone could come in and do better with the same resources and roster provided. To make a change just to make a change is foolish. As they say; it would be expecting change by doing the same thing over and over.
We all know where the real problems lie. (NUTTING).
However the Bucs have also done a poor job of talent evaluation both in the draft and in the acquisition of players.
The Manager is only as good as the talent given to him.
What a crock of BS. Sounds sooooo noble and everything but this is nothing but excuses (a loser mentality) for a has been (never really successful) manager and the FO. These clowns could manage to mess up a crowbar in a sand pile. Stuff like this is exactly how you have a losing record for 20 plus straight years. St. Louis fired Matheney in the mist of the season last year because his team was underperforming, he went to the playoffs 4 out 7 years he managed and never had a losing season. Pittsburgh needs to replicate St. Louis's baseball team. This Lesa fare attitude by fans allow what is happening to the Pirates. Where's the can do attitude, the I'm going fight, I'm so sick of this crap. If NH can't get the job done hire someone who can don't tell me it can't be done it can, but not with this kind of I'm OK, we can't do anything about it attitude.
First of All I am not supporting NH and I have been the biggest critic of Nutting long before the rest of this board joined in.
As usual you put the emphasis of the blame on Hurdle. If you want to be reactionary and use him as a scapegoat fine; but that will not solve the problem. The problem is the lack of financial resources provided by Nutting and the poor job of talent acquisition by the FO in the draft, International signings and trades.
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Bobster21
Pirates vs Cubbies - 8/16 - Game Thread
I don't think anyone disputes that Nutting is the #1 problem. The Pirates are not going to be on a par talent-wise even with teams willing to have an average MLB payroll. That means that the GM and mgr have to be very good at their jobs for the team to have any chance of rising above the modest expectations that come with a minimal payroll.
NH has not done that. His drafting and talent evaluations of the players he has, those he trades and those he acquires is not adequate. And on a team that refuses to spend money to add players to make up for mistakes in player evaluation, that's a huge problem.
And Hurdle makes too many strange decisions in how to use the players he's been given. He seems like a nice guy and he's good in the community. But those aren't attributes that help win games. I would dispute that he's a good communicator as his teams always seem to lack fundamentals. He's been in the game his whole life so I'm sure he knows the fundamentals but he doesn't seem to get through to his players. And this year there's been the usual incidents of Marte not hustling as well as the Kela/Morales and Rojas/Crick incidents. Too often he prioritizes rest and preparing for future games over trying his best to win the game he's playing. He adheres to formulas that work for teams with better personnel but doesn't seem willing to use different strategies that would better suit his own team. Hurdle's never going to win a championship with the team Nutting is willing to pay for or that NH puts together. So all we can expect as fans is for the Pirates to perform as well as they can under the circumstances. But Hurdle's game management skills seem to be a further detriment to that happening.
NH has not done that. His drafting and talent evaluations of the players he has, those he trades and those he acquires is not adequate. And on a team that refuses to spend money to add players to make up for mistakes in player evaluation, that's a huge problem.
And Hurdle makes too many strange decisions in how to use the players he's been given. He seems like a nice guy and he's good in the community. But those aren't attributes that help win games. I would dispute that he's a good communicator as his teams always seem to lack fundamentals. He's been in the game his whole life so I'm sure he knows the fundamentals but he doesn't seem to get through to his players. And this year there's been the usual incidents of Marte not hustling as well as the Kela/Morales and Rojas/Crick incidents. Too often he prioritizes rest and preparing for future games over trying his best to win the game he's playing. He adheres to formulas that work for teams with better personnel but doesn't seem willing to use different strategies that would better suit his own team. Hurdle's never going to win a championship with the team Nutting is willing to pay for or that NH puts together. So all we can expect as fans is for the Pirates to perform as well as they can under the circumstances. But Hurdle's game management skills seem to be a further detriment to that happening.