In the four major professional teams sports, is there any man or woman whom you think is under less pressure to win than Ben Cherington?
I was thinking that maybe Bill Belichick could come close, given his track record up there in New England. But, I would think that even he would want to prove that he can win without Tom Brady.
I can't think of anyone in the NFL, NBA, or MLB, Aand I dont care about hockey, so I don't know of the NHL.
I don't think that many people expect the Pirates to win.
What Say The Masses?
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What Say The Masses?
427760606B5260606B6C60050 wrote: In the four major professional teams sports, is there any man or woman whom you think is under less pressure to win than Ben Cherington?
I was thinking that maybe Bill Belichick could come close, given his track record up there in New England. But, I would think that even he would want to prove that he can win without Tom Brady.
I can't think of anyone in the NFL, NBA, or MLB, Aand I dont care about hockey, so I don't know of the NHL.
I don't think that many people expect the Pirates to win.
Oh, I'll take the bait...
It's not like this is the first time a professional sports team has traded away their highest level team for prospects. Rick Hahn and the White Sox traded away pretty much their whole MLB team except Abreu in 2016 or 2017 (can't remember exactly). He had already been there for a number of years. They were expected to not win and it was fine.
The same thing would be true of Dayton Moore and the Royals. They sold the farm for their couple of years of eeking into the playoff (and then it payed off huge with a WS championship). No one in KC cared that they have been losers for the last couple of years. Now they have a bunch of great prospects in their upper levels of the system and they are poised to run again.
That is a huge market and a small market. The economics of baseball are exposing a strategy of cyclical winning. The Pirates are not exactly reinventing the wheel here.
I was thinking that maybe Bill Belichick could come close, given his track record up there in New England. But, I would think that even he would want to prove that he can win without Tom Brady.
I can't think of anyone in the NFL, NBA, or MLB, Aand I dont care about hockey, so I don't know of the NHL.
I don't think that many people expect the Pirates to win.
Oh, I'll take the bait...
It's not like this is the first time a professional sports team has traded away their highest level team for prospects. Rick Hahn and the White Sox traded away pretty much their whole MLB team except Abreu in 2016 or 2017 (can't remember exactly). He had already been there for a number of years. They were expected to not win and it was fine.
The same thing would be true of Dayton Moore and the Royals. They sold the farm for their couple of years of eeking into the playoff (and then it payed off huge with a WS championship). No one in KC cared that they have been losers for the last couple of years. Now they have a bunch of great prospects in their upper levels of the system and they are poised to run again.
That is a huge market and a small market. The economics of baseball are exposing a strategy of cyclical winning. The Pirates are not exactly reinventing the wheel here.
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GreenWeenie
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I don't suggest that this is either the first or the last such circumstance. I am asking about right now. I have no doubt that the answer will change at some point.
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ArnoldRothstein
What Say The Masses?
..., is there any man or woman whom you think is under less pressure to win than Ben Cherington?
No, I think that any pressure runs exactly the opposite way - that he's expected to lose 105 games or more, and ideally take another #1 overall pick.
I've said before, previous youth movements accepted a downturn in the W-L record as a necessary risk. This time around, it's a goal.
No, I think that any pressure runs exactly the opposite way - that he's expected to lose 105 games or more, and ideally take another #1 overall pick.
I've said before, previous youth movements accepted a downturn in the W-L record as a necessary risk. This time around, it's a goal.
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SammyKhalifa
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625740404B7240404B4C40250 wrote: I don't suggest that this is either the first or the last such circumstance. I am asking about right now. I have no doubt that the answer will change at some point.
I think there's little if any attention on the Pirates (or baseball) right now. Nobody went to a game last year and I have my doubts about the upcoming one. This is actually probably the best time to go this route from a public opinion perspective IMO.
I think there's little if any attention on the Pirates (or baseball) right now. Nobody went to a game last year and I have my doubts about the upcoming one. This is actually probably the best time to go this route from a public opinion perspective IMO.
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GreenWeenie
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I see it as a positive, to be honest about it.
While I've written as a member of now-defunct boards that the Pirates have built-in alibis for not winning because of Nutting's refusal to provide sufficient resources to go up against the biggest boys, it gives the players a sense of doing better than everyone outside of the clubhouse expects of them.
How much that helps, if any? I have no idea.
For all I know, BOB could've placed some type of timeline of expectations on Cherington. That's something that wouldn't be made public.
While I've written as a member of now-defunct boards that the Pirates have built-in alibis for not winning because of Nutting's refusal to provide sufficient resources to go up against the biggest boys, it gives the players a sense of doing better than everyone outside of the clubhouse expects of them.
How much that helps, if any? I have no idea.
For all I know, BOB could've placed some type of timeline of expectations on Cherington. That's something that wouldn't be made public.
What Say The Masses?
Most of the NBA has less pressure. The season starts with a very short list of teams that one will be the winner. Some teams will never be on that list, save for a couple of drafts of guys who became much better than expected. Certain players can force their way and create certain teams.
More pressure in the NHL and NFL. With the tight salary cap structure, especially with revenue sharing in the NFL, money and market size are no excuse. The NHL, it's truly the one pro sport year in and year out that can say, anyone can win it if they get in and get hot. MLB can say that, but it's the getting in part that's difficult.
I think for the most part, Pirates fans would be satisfied with a shot every year at a WC. They've seen teams win from the second slot. At some point, we'll have that Jake Arrieta or MadBum on their absolute best, and the absolute best in baseball at that time to boot.
BC has my support. I already said why. He won the race to the bottom. Practically every other team that really doesn't have a shot this year is doing what the Pirates are. They are looking at what's the point, knowing full well 2022 is going to be very iffy. BC is already looking beyond that.
It's why he's trading who he can now. When it's looking like the main haggling point will be reducing team control from 6 to five years, who wants to emerge from 2022 with absolutely no player other than Hayes with multiple years of control. We're not the only team that talks about "years of control". They do that in Boston, Chicago. Look what the Cubs did. They didn't even try to build a dynasty. They won it all, and rested on their laurels. They got the money printing machine revved up for years to come for the casual fan. They'll get more milk out of that then the Pirates did from 2013 WC game.
More pressure in the NHL and NFL. With the tight salary cap structure, especially with revenue sharing in the NFL, money and market size are no excuse. The NHL, it's truly the one pro sport year in and year out that can say, anyone can win it if they get in and get hot. MLB can say that, but it's the getting in part that's difficult.
I think for the most part, Pirates fans would be satisfied with a shot every year at a WC. They've seen teams win from the second slot. At some point, we'll have that Jake Arrieta or MadBum on their absolute best, and the absolute best in baseball at that time to boot.
BC has my support. I already said why. He won the race to the bottom. Practically every other team that really doesn't have a shot this year is doing what the Pirates are. They are looking at what's the point, knowing full well 2022 is going to be very iffy. BC is already looking beyond that.
It's why he's trading who he can now. When it's looking like the main haggling point will be reducing team control from 6 to five years, who wants to emerge from 2022 with absolutely no player other than Hayes with multiple years of control. We're not the only team that talks about "years of control". They do that in Boston, Chicago. Look what the Cubs did. They didn't even try to build a dynasty. They won it all, and rested on their laurels. They got the money printing machine revved up for years to come for the casual fan. They'll get more milk out of that then the Pirates did from 2013 WC game.
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GreenWeenie
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The NY Knicks have almost always been out of it, but believe you me, those NYC fans and media never let up on the owner. Dolan might be the one guy out there who is even worse than ours'. But, even Dolan has terminated coaches and executives for poor results with a faster hook than BOB's been known to. You're right, though. The NBA tends to have teams that stay toward the top longer than in some other sports.
When Commissioner Selig sold the owners on the Second Wild Card, it was with the notion that, out of the 30 clubs, around 25 or so would begin the season thinking that they at least had a hot of making post-seaosn play. It's one thing to get in. It's something else to climb that tough stepladder once you get there. I'm not sure that "making post-season play" means as much these days as it once did.
When Commissioner Selig sold the owners on the Second Wild Card, it was with the notion that, out of the 30 clubs, around 25 or so would begin the season thinking that they at least had a hot of making post-seaosn play. It's one thing to get in. It's something else to climb that tough stepladder once you get there. I'm not sure that "making post-season play" means as much these days as it once did.
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maher.timothy20@gm
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Those last few games of last season was the first time in my life I rooted against the Pirates (so they could secure the first pick). If they have the worst record again I won't feel bad about it.
Next year I'm rooting for no season at all unless they can agree on a salary cap/floor.
Next year I'm rooting for no season at all unless they can agree on a salary cap/floor.
What Say The Masses?
64424550595542545C370 wrote: Most of the NBA has less pressure. The season starts with a very short list of teams that one will be the winner. Some teams will never be on that list, save for a couple of drafts of guys who became much better than expected. Certain players can force their way and create certain teams.
More pressure in the NHL and NFL. With the tight salary cap structure, especially with revenue sharing in the NFL, money and market size are no excuse. The NHL, it's truly the one pro sport year in and year out that can say, anyone can win it if they get in and get hot. MLB can say that, but it's the getting in part that's difficult.
I think for the most part, Pirates fans would be satisfied with a shot every year at a WC. They've seen teams win from the second slot. At some point, we'll have that Jake Arrieta or MadBum on their absolute best, and the absolute best in baseball at that time to boot.
BC has my support. I already said why. He won the race to the bottom. Practically every other team that really doesn't have a shot this year is doing what the Pirates are. They are looking at what's the point, knowing full well 2022 is going to be very iffy. BC is already looking beyond that.
It's why he's trading who he can now. When it's looking like the main haggling point will be reducing team control from 6 to five years, who wants to emerge from 2022 with absolutely no player other than Hayes with multiple years of control. We're not the only team that talks about "years of control". They do that in Boston, Chicago. Look what the Cubs did. They didn't even try to build a dynasty. They won it all, and rested on their laurels. They got the money printing machine revved up for years to come for the casual fan. They'll get more milk out of that then the Pirates did from 2013 WC game.
Reducing years of control from 6 to 5 pretty much takes any chance the Pirates have and throws it down the drain.
More pressure in the NHL and NFL. With the tight salary cap structure, especially with revenue sharing in the NFL, money and market size are no excuse. The NHL, it's truly the one pro sport year in and year out that can say, anyone can win it if they get in and get hot. MLB can say that, but it's the getting in part that's difficult.
I think for the most part, Pirates fans would be satisfied with a shot every year at a WC. They've seen teams win from the second slot. At some point, we'll have that Jake Arrieta or MadBum on their absolute best, and the absolute best in baseball at that time to boot.
BC has my support. I already said why. He won the race to the bottom. Practically every other team that really doesn't have a shot this year is doing what the Pirates are. They are looking at what's the point, knowing full well 2022 is going to be very iffy. BC is already looking beyond that.
It's why he's trading who he can now. When it's looking like the main haggling point will be reducing team control from 6 to five years, who wants to emerge from 2022 with absolutely no player other than Hayes with multiple years of control. We're not the only team that talks about "years of control". They do that in Boston, Chicago. Look what the Cubs did. They didn't even try to build a dynasty. They won it all, and rested on their laurels. They got the money printing machine revved up for years to come for the casual fan. They'll get more milk out of that then the Pirates did from 2013 WC game.
Reducing years of control from 6 to 5 pretty much takes any chance the Pirates have and throws it down the drain.