705657405646350 wrote: The other part of this "what are the Pirates doing?" issue is . . .
What are the Phillies doing?
apparently the Phillies are short of pitchers due to injuries, innings limits. Not that Nicasio can help tremendously as far as innings go (can't imagine he will pitch more than a dozen innings for Phils) but he is an experienced reliever who should be able to provide some quality innings and perhaps even have some of his experience rub off on Phillie bullpen members.
It's a waste of money if he is not offered an extension. 10 to 12 innings for $660K? They have to have someone on their 40 man who can provide that to get through the season.
Nicassio and LeBlanc placed on Irrevoccable Waivers
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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Bobster21
Nicassio and LeBlanc placed on Irrevoccable Waivers
4542545C5245020E77505A565E5B1954585A370 wrote: I really don't have a problem with Nicasio not being traded. At the TDL, confidence in Watson had been lost and they were just trying to get whatever they could for him. Losing him from the BP was almost addition by subtraction. Nicasio, tho also a pending FA, was their 2nd best reliever, their 8th inning setup guy and they didn't want to gut the bullpen unless they got a good trade for him. He wasn't owed that much anyway so keeping him wasn't a problem. At the TDL (7/31) they were 4 games under .500 and 5.5 games back. Most people realized this team was going nowhere but the BMTIB had been blessed to not even be completely out of the race because the better teams hadn't yet left them in the dust. They could still promote upcoming series as meaningful (at least theoretically for business purposes). Of course, they weren't going to invest much money to make a run so they got Benoit essentially for free and added a low cost Kontos and made no more moves. So they could still promote remaining games as if the Bucs were in the hunt even tho they weren't making much of an effort. But that's how this cheap org operates. It almost worked. Between 8/3 and 8/11 they went 7-2 and reached .500. But since then they have gone 5-13 and are now hopelessly left in the dust. So at that point, the cheapness took over. Just get rid of the pending free agent that will surely be claimed and save whatever money can be saved even if it is hardly anything.
So I understand not having traded him by 7/31. In hindsight, that would have been better. But even by 8/11 they were at .500 and 4 games out with many games left to play vs the 3 teams ahead of them. Once all hope was lost that fans would buy into the idea that upcoming games were meaningful, they cut their losses and saved any pennies they could. The savings on Nicasio is so small that all of MLB seems to be scratching their heads at this cheap move. But Pirates fans are not surprised.
Good post. I totally agree. They missed out at the trading deadline on Nicasio. Watson did have more value being a lefty and former closer (we know teams love that closer title). Once the waiver trading happened, the Pirates were getting blocked to get any value for Nicasio. Instead of giving in to those demands, they kept him. Is that better than be taken advantage of? I don't know.
There was another option, the one 29 other teams would have exercised: just keep him.
This by itself isn't a big deal. This is just another Little irritant that is now adding up to a very large problem: no one believes anything the Pirates say or do.
Personally I have a picture in my mind of Nutting slipping $660K into his wallet and walking out of the office whistling. Somewhere along the line the Pirates have to understand their horrible PR. It's like they just poke us in the eye and then offer some lame excuse.
What this FO needs to do is have a pressed and say "we now realize we've been poking our fans in the eye. We apologize AND we promise to run this team in a manner that unites our fans in support and reflects the best of MLB". And then they need to do it. All they do now is save a buck and make lame excuses
I agree with you, VA. That's why I said keeping Nicasio would not have been a problem when they could at least claim to be in a race. Most teams would have decided at that point that since they didn't trade him, they'd just hold onto him and let him walk after the season. But once they could no longer claim to be in a race, the cheapness took over and they wanted to save every penny. But most, if not all, teams would not have given away their #2 reliever who was owed so little.
And, yes, they either don't care or don't comprehend their horrible PR. And PR is crucial to any sports franchise. After all, they have to have fans buying into what they are selling: supporting, buying tickets, increasing TV ratings, buying merchandise. If you drive the fans away with bad PR you have nothing.
It's funny you mentioned they should apologize to their fans. I've been thinking the same thing. It may be necessary in an attempt to soothe the bad blood. There have been other instances where a sports team owner has taken out a full page ad apologizing for a team's poor performance and promising its fans to do better. That may be something the Pirates need to consider. Realistically, they won't include the "poking in the eye" part. But something like "The Pirates thank their fans for your support and have been disappointed in our efforts to bring you the type of baseball you deserve these past two years. We are committed to bringing you a competitive, exciting team in 2018." Of course talk is cheap and failing to significantly improve the team will only drive away more fans and make the BS comments from the org look even worse. So they would have to make a splash in the off season by spending a few of the bucks they've been hording and picking up a couple players that will excite the fans. I don't know if that will happen. The cheapness (i.e, the "eye poking") has been so blatant this year that it does seem they don't care who knows it. But you can't run a franchise like that. Maybe Nutting is about to pull up stakes and sell. It's very hard to comprehend a team that won 98 games 2 years ago being now run in a manner that can only alienate the very fans it needs.
So I understand not having traded him by 7/31. In hindsight, that would have been better. But even by 8/11 they were at .500 and 4 games out with many games left to play vs the 3 teams ahead of them. Once all hope was lost that fans would buy into the idea that upcoming games were meaningful, they cut their losses and saved any pennies they could. The savings on Nicasio is so small that all of MLB seems to be scratching their heads at this cheap move. But Pirates fans are not surprised.
Good post. I totally agree. They missed out at the trading deadline on Nicasio. Watson did have more value being a lefty and former closer (we know teams love that closer title). Once the waiver trading happened, the Pirates were getting blocked to get any value for Nicasio. Instead of giving in to those demands, they kept him. Is that better than be taken advantage of? I don't know.
There was another option, the one 29 other teams would have exercised: just keep him.
This by itself isn't a big deal. This is just another Little irritant that is now adding up to a very large problem: no one believes anything the Pirates say or do.
Personally I have a picture in my mind of Nutting slipping $660K into his wallet and walking out of the office whistling. Somewhere along the line the Pirates have to understand their horrible PR. It's like they just poke us in the eye and then offer some lame excuse.
What this FO needs to do is have a pressed and say "we now realize we've been poking our fans in the eye. We apologize AND we promise to run this team in a manner that unites our fans in support and reflects the best of MLB". And then they need to do it. All they do now is save a buck and make lame excuses
I agree with you, VA. That's why I said keeping Nicasio would not have been a problem when they could at least claim to be in a race. Most teams would have decided at that point that since they didn't trade him, they'd just hold onto him and let him walk after the season. But once they could no longer claim to be in a race, the cheapness took over and they wanted to save every penny. But most, if not all, teams would not have given away their #2 reliever who was owed so little.
And, yes, they either don't care or don't comprehend their horrible PR. And PR is crucial to any sports franchise. After all, they have to have fans buying into what they are selling: supporting, buying tickets, increasing TV ratings, buying merchandise. If you drive the fans away with bad PR you have nothing.
It's funny you mentioned they should apologize to their fans. I've been thinking the same thing. It may be necessary in an attempt to soothe the bad blood. There have been other instances where a sports team owner has taken out a full page ad apologizing for a team's poor performance and promising its fans to do better. That may be something the Pirates need to consider. Realistically, they won't include the "poking in the eye" part. But something like "The Pirates thank their fans for your support and have been disappointed in our efforts to bring you the type of baseball you deserve these past two years. We are committed to bringing you a competitive, exciting team in 2018." Of course talk is cheap and failing to significantly improve the team will only drive away more fans and make the BS comments from the org look even worse. So they would have to make a splash in the off season by spending a few of the bucks they've been hording and picking up a couple players that will excite the fans. I don't know if that will happen. The cheapness (i.e, the "eye poking") has been so blatant this year that it does seem they don't care who knows it. But you can't run a franchise like that. Maybe Nutting is about to pull up stakes and sell. It's very hard to comprehend a team that won 98 games 2 years ago being now run in a manner that can only alienate the very fans it needs.
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Bobster21
Nicassio and LeBlanc placed on Irrevoccable Waivers
2F242C2025243F7A7C0B322A2324246528244B0 wrote: The other part of this "what are the Pirates doing?" issue is . . .
What are the Phillies doing?
apparently the Phillies are short of pitchers due to injuries, innings limits. Not that Nicasio can help tremendously as far as innings go (can't imagine he will pitch more than a dozen innings for Phils) but he is an experienced reliever who should be able to provide some quality innings and perhaps even have some of his experience rub off on Phillie bullpen members.
It's a waste of money if he is not offered an extension. 10 to 12 innings for $660K? They have to have someone on their 40 man who can provide that to get through the season.
$660,000 is very little in MLB today. And it gives them a chance have Nicasio offer veteran advice to their young staff, to sell him on the city and on plans to make the Phillies competitive for 2018. It's an investment in trying to get a leg up on signing him as a FA. And if it doesn't work, it's only $660,000 (which is a deal breaker for Nutting).
What are the Phillies doing?
apparently the Phillies are short of pitchers due to injuries, innings limits. Not that Nicasio can help tremendously as far as innings go (can't imagine he will pitch more than a dozen innings for Phils) but he is an experienced reliever who should be able to provide some quality innings and perhaps even have some of his experience rub off on Phillie bullpen members.
It's a waste of money if he is not offered an extension. 10 to 12 innings for $660K? They have to have someone on their 40 man who can provide that to get through the season.
$660,000 is very little in MLB today. And it gives them a chance have Nicasio offer veteran advice to their young staff, to sell him on the city and on plans to make the Phillies competitive for 2018. It's an investment in trying to get a leg up on signing him as a FA. And if it doesn't work, it's only $660,000 (which is a deal breaker for Nutting).
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Nicassio and LeBlanc placed on Irrevoccable Waivers
Oh, so it is a getting a leg up on the free agent market? That's what I said too that was laughed at.
Also why I said "It's a waste of money if he is not offered an extension".
I don't buy the other things you mentioned. Would you (we) want the Pirates to pick up the same type of player/cost/control for a month? The Pirates would be laughed at if they did that (see Benoit).
Also why I said "It's a waste of money if he is not offered an extension".
I don't buy the other things you mentioned. Would you (we) want the Pirates to pick up the same type of player/cost/control for a month? The Pirates would be laughed at if they did that (see Benoit).
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3642
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Nicassio and LeBlanc placed on Irrevoccable Waivers
496469787F6E79393A0B0 wrote: The other part of this "what are the Pirates doing?" issue is . . .
What are the Phillies doing?
apparently the Phillies are short of pitchers due to injuries, innings limits. Not that Nicasio can help tremendously as far as innings go (can't imagine he will pitch more than a dozen innings for Phils) but he is an experienced reliever who should be able to provide some quality innings and perhaps even have some of his experience rub off on Phillie bullpen members.
It's a waste of money if he is not offered an extension. 10 to 12 innings for $660K? They have to have someone on their 40 man who can provide that to get through the season.
$660,000 is very little in MLB today. And it gives them a chance have Nicasio offer veteran advice to their young staff, to sell him on the city and on plans to make the Phillies competitive for 2018. It's an investment in trying to get a leg up on signing him as a FA. And if it doesn't work, it's only $660,000 (which is a deal breaker for Nutting).
I don't really think it's a waste of money but I don't really see the purpose either. I see the reasons you're giving but I'm not really sold that that makes it worthwhile for the Phillies.
Of course I did see another theory floated out there somewhere, which was that Philadelphia did it as a middle finger to someone higher up in the standings who wanted him. Now THAT is a motivation I could get behind.
What are the Phillies doing?
apparently the Phillies are short of pitchers due to injuries, innings limits. Not that Nicasio can help tremendously as far as innings go (can't imagine he will pitch more than a dozen innings for Phils) but he is an experienced reliever who should be able to provide some quality innings and perhaps even have some of his experience rub off on Phillie bullpen members.
It's a waste of money if he is not offered an extension. 10 to 12 innings for $660K? They have to have someone on their 40 man who can provide that to get through the season.
$660,000 is very little in MLB today. And it gives them a chance have Nicasio offer veteran advice to their young staff, to sell him on the city and on plans to make the Phillies competitive for 2018. It's an investment in trying to get a leg up on signing him as a FA. And if it doesn't work, it's only $660,000 (which is a deal breaker for Nutting).
I don't really think it's a waste of money but I don't really see the purpose either. I see the reasons you're giving but I'm not really sold that that makes it worthwhile for the Phillies.
Of course I did see another theory floated out there somewhere, which was that Philadelphia did it as a middle finger to someone higher up in the standings who wanted him. Now THAT is a motivation I could get behind.
Nicassio and LeBlanc placed on Irrevoccable Waivers
576569697D4F6C65686D6265040 wrote: The other part of this "what are the Pirates doing?" issue is . . .
What are the Phillies doing?
apparently the Phillies are short of pitchers due to injuries, innings limits. Not that Nicasio can help tremendously as far as innings go (can't imagine he will pitch more than a dozen innings for Phils) but he is an experienced reliever who should be able to provide some quality innings and perhaps even have some of his experience rub off on Phillie bullpen members.
It's a waste of money if he is not offered an extension. 10 to 12 innings for $660K? They have to have someone on their 40 man who can provide that to get through the season.
$660,000 is very little in MLB today. And it gives them a chance have Nicasio offer veteran advice to their young staff, to sell him on the city and on plans to make the Phillies competitive for 2018. It's an investment in trying to get a leg up on signing him as a FA. And if it doesn't work, it's only $660,000 (which is a deal breaker for Nutting).
I don't really think it's a waste of money but I don't really see the purpose either. I see the reasons you're giving but I'm not really sold that that makes it worthwhile for the Phillies.
Of course I did see another theory floated out there somewhere, which was that Philadelphia did it as a middle finger to someone higher up in the standings who wanted him. Now THAT is a motivation I could get behind.
from what NH said the Pirates seem to be surprised the Phillies took him as they thought he would go to a contender. I think the Phillies took him for the reasons stated (and adding giving another team the finger is a good reason). Other than Tampa and the Marlins there are not any other teams out there that would make a move to save 600k.
some where I read that Nova could earn a million or more in bonuses by end of season too. I don't really care about why the Phillies chose him since I'm a Pirate fan. but I do think the reasons the Pirates gave are nonsensical. The Pirates are a cheap team that wastes a lot of money.
What are the Phillies doing?
apparently the Phillies are short of pitchers due to injuries, innings limits. Not that Nicasio can help tremendously as far as innings go (can't imagine he will pitch more than a dozen innings for Phils) but he is an experienced reliever who should be able to provide some quality innings and perhaps even have some of his experience rub off on Phillie bullpen members.
It's a waste of money if he is not offered an extension. 10 to 12 innings for $660K? They have to have someone on their 40 man who can provide that to get through the season.
$660,000 is very little in MLB today. And it gives them a chance have Nicasio offer veteran advice to their young staff, to sell him on the city and on plans to make the Phillies competitive for 2018. It's an investment in trying to get a leg up on signing him as a FA. And if it doesn't work, it's only $660,000 (which is a deal breaker for Nutting).
I don't really think it's a waste of money but I don't really see the purpose either. I see the reasons you're giving but I'm not really sold that that makes it worthwhile for the Phillies.
Of course I did see another theory floated out there somewhere, which was that Philadelphia did it as a middle finger to someone higher up in the standings who wanted him. Now THAT is a motivation I could get behind.
from what NH said the Pirates seem to be surprised the Phillies took him as they thought he would go to a contender. I think the Phillies took him for the reasons stated (and adding giving another team the finger is a good reason). Other than Tampa and the Marlins there are not any other teams out there that would make a move to save 600k.
some where I read that Nova could earn a million or more in bonuses by end of season too. I don't really care about why the Phillies chose him since I'm a Pirate fan. but I do think the reasons the Pirates gave are nonsensical. The Pirates are a cheap team that wastes a lot of money.
Nicassio and LeBlanc placed on Irrevoccable Waivers
The Pirates absolutely owe their fans an apology. But, following the company line, we'll probably hear something about how they'll spend when the time is right, and given the attendance drop-off this year, payroll will probably have to be reduced next year. In other words, far from apologizing to fans, blaming the fans.
Nicassio and LeBlanc placed on Irrevoccable Waivers
Nah, I cannot agree. The deadline strategy was incoherent. The mouth says we're competitors, the lack of a serviceable OF when so many were available spoke clearly that it's lip service.
It's not hindsight that Nicasio should have been traded by 7/31. He should have been traded IF WE WEREN'T GOING TO ADD, which we didn't.
I disagree that his value was much different than Watson's, either. I know the schitck though, everyone we trade or should trade has no real value, everyone we should pick up has way too much value and costs to much in prospects and salary.
So it's not a big deal either way. But if you're going to hold onto him through 7/31 and then on 8/3 you get blocked in trade waivers and revoke. You don't turn around and outright him to save that 600k.
Everyone wants to talk about business this and business that. What kind of business acumen is required to take this kind of PR abuse in order to save .5% of a real Major league payroll *(~120m)?
Rosters expand today, the innings excuse was incoherent.
The waivers excuse is incoherent, as Nicasio would have had to pass through 20 teams to start to get to the contenders. As we know, he didn't pass through 1.
The deadline strategy was incoherent,
the august strategy was incoherent,
the players rest schedules are incoherent, The players getting time (Jaso and Stewart) at the expense of the future players is incoherent. All the while, the team sucks.
Who isn't responsible? the GM.
It's not hindsight that Nicasio should have been traded by 7/31. He should have been traded IF WE WEREN'T GOING TO ADD, which we didn't.
I disagree that his value was much different than Watson's, either. I know the schitck though, everyone we trade or should trade has no real value, everyone we should pick up has way too much value and costs to much in prospects and salary.
So it's not a big deal either way. But if you're going to hold onto him through 7/31 and then on 8/3 you get blocked in trade waivers and revoke. You don't turn around and outright him to save that 600k.
Everyone wants to talk about business this and business that. What kind of business acumen is required to take this kind of PR abuse in order to save .5% of a real Major league payroll *(~120m)?
Rosters expand today, the innings excuse was incoherent.
The waivers excuse is incoherent, as Nicasio would have had to pass through 20 teams to start to get to the contenders. As we know, he didn't pass through 1.
The deadline strategy was incoherent,
the august strategy was incoherent,
the players rest schedules are incoherent, The players getting time (Jaso and Stewart) at the expense of the future players is incoherent. All the while, the team sucks.
Who isn't responsible? the GM.
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Wrathchild
- Posts: 152
- Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:23 pm
Nicassio and LeBlanc placed on Irrevoccable Waivers
426F62737465723231000 wrote: I really don't have a problem with Nicasio not being traded. At the TDL, confidence in Watson had been lost and they were just trying to get whatever they could for him. Losing him from the BP was almost addition by subtraction. Nicasio, tho also a pending FA, was their 2nd best reliever, their 8th inning setup guy and they didn't want to gut the bullpen unless they got a good trade for him. He wasn't owed that much anyway so keeping him wasn't a problem. At the TDL (7/31) they were 4 games under .500 and 5.5 games back. Most people realized this team was going nowhere but the BMTIB had been blessed to not even be completely out of the race because the better teams hadn't yet left them in the dust. They could still promote upcoming series as meaningful (at least theoretically for business purposes). Of course, they weren't going to invest much money to make a run so they got Benoit essentially for free and added a low cost Kontos and made no more moves. So they could still promote remaining games as if the Bucs were in the hunt even tho they weren't making much of an effort. But that's how this cheap org operates. It almost worked. Between 8/3 and 8/11 they went 7-2 and reached .500. But since then they have gone 5-13 and are now hopelessly left in the dust. So at that point, the cheapness took over. Just get rid of the pending free agent that will surely be claimed and save whatever money can be saved even if it is hardly anything.
So I understand not having traded him by 7/31. In hindsight, that would have been better. But even by 8/11 they were at .500 and 4 games out with many games left to play vs the 3 teams ahead of them. Once all hope was lost that fans would buy into the idea that upcoming games were meaningful, they cut their losses and saved any pennies they could. The savings on Nicasio is so small that all of MLB seems to be scratching their heads at this cheap move. But Pirates fans are not surprised.
Good post. I totally agree. They missed out at the trading deadline on Nicasio. Watson did have more value being a lefty and former closer (we know teams love that closer title). Once the waiver trading happened, the Pirates were getting blocked to get any value for Nicasio. Instead of giving in to those demands, they kept him. Is that better than be taken advantage of? I don't know.
There was another option, the one 29 other teams would have exercised: just keep him.
This by itself isn't a big deal. This is just another Little irritant that is now adding up to a very large problem: no one believes anything the Pirates say or do.
Personally I have a picture in my mind of Nutting slipping $660K into his wallet and walking out of the office whistling. Somewhere along the line the Pirates have to understand their horrible PR. It's like they just poke us in the eye and then offer some lame excuse.
What this FO needs to do is have a pressed and say "we now realize we've been poking our fans in the eye. We apologize AND we promise to run this team in a manner that unites our fans in support and reflects the best of MLB". And then they need to do it. All they do now is save a buck and make lame excuses
I agree with you, VA. That's why I said keeping Nicasio would not have been a problem when they could at least claim to be in a race. Most teams would have decided at that point that since they didn't trade him, they'd just hold onto him and let him walk after the season. But once they could no longer claim to be in a race, the cheapness took over and they wanted to save every penny. But most, if not all, teams would not have given away their #2 reliever who was owed so little.
And, yes, they either don't care or don't comprehend their horrible PR. And PR is crucial to any sports franchise. After all, they have to have fans buying into what they are selling: supporting, buying tickets, increasing TV ratings, buying merchandise. If you drive the fans away with bad PR you have nothing.
It's funny you mentioned they should apologize to their fans. I've been thinking the same thing. It may be necessary in an attempt to soothe the bad blood. There have been other instances where a sports team owner has taken out a full page ad apologizing for a team's poor performance and promising its fans to do better. That may be something the Pirates need to consider. Realistically, they won't include the "poking in the eye" part. But something like "The Pirates thank their fans for your support and have been disappointed in our efforts to bring you the type of baseball you deserve these past two years. We are committed to bringing you a competitive, exciting team in 2018." Of course talk is cheap and failing to significantly improve the team will only drive away more fans and make the BS comments from the org look even worse. So they would have to make a splash in the off season by spending a few of the bucks they've been hording and picking up a couple players that will excite the fans. I don't know if that will happen. The cheapness (i.e, the "eye poking") has been so blatant this year that it does seem they don't care who knows it. But you can't run a franchise like that. Maybe Nutting is about to pull up stakes and sell. It's very hard to comprehend a team that won 98 games 2 years ago being now run in a manner that can only alienate the very fans it needs.
The Pirates owe an apology to the fans, but a substantial portion of the fans don't really deserve one.
This franchise hit an unbelievable low when it quit on the players and fans at the deadline last year. I know the Pirates weren't playing that well at the deadline last year, but they were one short hot streak from controlling their own destiny. Instead of making an add and going for it, they traded their expiring asset who was an important part of the reason the Pirates were still in the race.
A well-run and properly funded franchise doesn't quit under this scenario. Yet, a substantial portion of the fans felt this was inevitable and claimed that we had to get value for the expiring asset. The trade was brilliant in a vacuum, no doubt. Even the biggest Huntington haters are probably giving him kudos for this trade. But the message it sent wasn't worth even Felipe Rivero and how good he has become. I felt this was going to be a disaster at the time and the disaster hasn't stopped.
The move alienated the players and at least some fans like myself. But the majority of fans seemed to give the organization a pass for laying down and getting some value.
When the team doesn't care about the players, the players reciprocate. This leads to PED suspensions, DUI convictions, lazy play, etc. The players are going to act selfishly and not think about team when the organization itself does the very same thing.
The Nicasio thing getting people riled up more than quitting at the deadline last year puzzles me greatly, but the organization has become emboldened in its efforts to squeeze a nickle out of anything. We save $600,000, but what is the soft cost of putting a guy who was performing and doing his job on a crappy temporary assignment over one-month's pay?
If I was a player who had real options, I'd never sign in Pittsburgh. They quit when there's still a reasonable chance and they'll crap on you in ways that no other team does when there's no longer a reasonable chance.
I love baseball and will always root for the Pirates, but I haven't spent a dime on MLB since last deadline and won't until this ownership group is gone.
So I understand not having traded him by 7/31. In hindsight, that would have been better. But even by 8/11 they were at .500 and 4 games out with many games left to play vs the 3 teams ahead of them. Once all hope was lost that fans would buy into the idea that upcoming games were meaningful, they cut their losses and saved any pennies they could. The savings on Nicasio is so small that all of MLB seems to be scratching their heads at this cheap move. But Pirates fans are not surprised.
Good post. I totally agree. They missed out at the trading deadline on Nicasio. Watson did have more value being a lefty and former closer (we know teams love that closer title). Once the waiver trading happened, the Pirates were getting blocked to get any value for Nicasio. Instead of giving in to those demands, they kept him. Is that better than be taken advantage of? I don't know.
There was another option, the one 29 other teams would have exercised: just keep him.
This by itself isn't a big deal. This is just another Little irritant that is now adding up to a very large problem: no one believes anything the Pirates say or do.
Personally I have a picture in my mind of Nutting slipping $660K into his wallet and walking out of the office whistling. Somewhere along the line the Pirates have to understand their horrible PR. It's like they just poke us in the eye and then offer some lame excuse.
What this FO needs to do is have a pressed and say "we now realize we've been poking our fans in the eye. We apologize AND we promise to run this team in a manner that unites our fans in support and reflects the best of MLB". And then they need to do it. All they do now is save a buck and make lame excuses
I agree with you, VA. That's why I said keeping Nicasio would not have been a problem when they could at least claim to be in a race. Most teams would have decided at that point that since they didn't trade him, they'd just hold onto him and let him walk after the season. But once they could no longer claim to be in a race, the cheapness took over and they wanted to save every penny. But most, if not all, teams would not have given away their #2 reliever who was owed so little.
And, yes, they either don't care or don't comprehend their horrible PR. And PR is crucial to any sports franchise. After all, they have to have fans buying into what they are selling: supporting, buying tickets, increasing TV ratings, buying merchandise. If you drive the fans away with bad PR you have nothing.
It's funny you mentioned they should apologize to their fans. I've been thinking the same thing. It may be necessary in an attempt to soothe the bad blood. There have been other instances where a sports team owner has taken out a full page ad apologizing for a team's poor performance and promising its fans to do better. That may be something the Pirates need to consider. Realistically, they won't include the "poking in the eye" part. But something like "The Pirates thank their fans for your support and have been disappointed in our efforts to bring you the type of baseball you deserve these past two years. We are committed to bringing you a competitive, exciting team in 2018." Of course talk is cheap and failing to significantly improve the team will only drive away more fans and make the BS comments from the org look even worse. So they would have to make a splash in the off season by spending a few of the bucks they've been hording and picking up a couple players that will excite the fans. I don't know if that will happen. The cheapness (i.e, the "eye poking") has been so blatant this year that it does seem they don't care who knows it. But you can't run a franchise like that. Maybe Nutting is about to pull up stakes and sell. It's very hard to comprehend a team that won 98 games 2 years ago being now run in a manner that can only alienate the very fans it needs.
The Pirates owe an apology to the fans, but a substantial portion of the fans don't really deserve one.
This franchise hit an unbelievable low when it quit on the players and fans at the deadline last year. I know the Pirates weren't playing that well at the deadline last year, but they were one short hot streak from controlling their own destiny. Instead of making an add and going for it, they traded their expiring asset who was an important part of the reason the Pirates were still in the race.
A well-run and properly funded franchise doesn't quit under this scenario. Yet, a substantial portion of the fans felt this was inevitable and claimed that we had to get value for the expiring asset. The trade was brilliant in a vacuum, no doubt. Even the biggest Huntington haters are probably giving him kudos for this trade. But the message it sent wasn't worth even Felipe Rivero and how good he has become. I felt this was going to be a disaster at the time and the disaster hasn't stopped.
The move alienated the players and at least some fans like myself. But the majority of fans seemed to give the organization a pass for laying down and getting some value.
When the team doesn't care about the players, the players reciprocate. This leads to PED suspensions, DUI convictions, lazy play, etc. The players are going to act selfishly and not think about team when the organization itself does the very same thing.
The Nicasio thing getting people riled up more than quitting at the deadline last year puzzles me greatly, but the organization has become emboldened in its efforts to squeeze a nickle out of anything. We save $600,000, but what is the soft cost of putting a guy who was performing and doing his job on a crappy temporary assignment over one-month's pay?
If I was a player who had real options, I'd never sign in Pittsburgh. They quit when there's still a reasonable chance and they'll crap on you in ways that no other team does when there's no longer a reasonable chance.
I love baseball and will always root for the Pirates, but I haven't spent a dime on MLB since last deadline and won't until this ownership group is gone.
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ArnoldRothstein
Nicassio and LeBlanc placed on Irrevoccable Waivers
646D65747A000 wrote:
So it's not a big deal either way. But if you're going to hold onto him through 7/31 and then on 8/3 you get blocked in trade waivers and revoke. You don't turn around and outright him to save that 600k.
Maybe more is known about this than I know. Obviously we're reading between the lines of NH's statement. It seems to me, though, that all of this, including the revocable waivers, may have happened very recently. Mediocre team or not, they were plausible contenders as they went into Toronto. Then they dropped 10 out of 13. I can see all of this playing out somewhere toward the end of that 13 games.
So it's not a big deal either way. But if you're going to hold onto him through 7/31 and then on 8/3 you get blocked in trade waivers and revoke. You don't turn around and outright him to save that 600k.
Maybe more is known about this than I know. Obviously we're reading between the lines of NH's statement. It seems to me, though, that all of this, including the revocable waivers, may have happened very recently. Mediocre team or not, they were plausible contenders as they went into Toronto. Then they dropped 10 out of 13. I can see all of this playing out somewhere toward the end of that 13 games.