6D6C7766703037030 wrote: Harrison, Mercer, maybe a healthy Cervelli? Kang? Why didn't you include them in the core?
Polanco is a fine addition. He might not be a super star like some hoped, but he is a fine second tier player. He is still improving. He is only in his third year and can be here for another six years. He can duplicate 2016 with even more power and a higher average.[/quot
Weren't you one of the regulars that wanted rid of Harrison anyway? I'm pretty sure last season you said his contract was bad for the Pirates. Now you include him in your core going forward?
Yep. You are obviously right.
It's part of the Pirate brainwash. Only contracts that overwhelmingly favor the Pirates are "good contracts". Anything else is a bad contract and the player is the cause of all Pirate failures. Once the contract is "good" again, the entire narrative changes.
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050E060A0F0E155056211800090E0E4F020E610 wrote: Someone can try to defend the trade all they want to, but our farm system took a big hit in dumping Lariano's salary. I think folks forget that McGuire was the overall #14 pick! He's just gone.
Maybe he's no longer much of a prospect a star some want to argue. If that's the case, then Neal simply had another very poor draft in 2013. If Meadows doesn't develop it will be a complete failure.
This was suppose to be a huge draft two picks within the top #14. Frazier and Kuhl are the only bright spots. For an organization dependent on the draft, this is a failure.
If the player stinks and doesn't improve, how are they still considered a loss or even a top prospect?
It could just be a bad draft. It will be, especially, if Meadows doesn't make an impact. McGuire was a miss in drafting. He is not good, is regressing as a player. Not sure how trading him hurt the farm?
Are you being serious? The #14 player in the draft is already out of the Pirate system, literally for nothing. And you don't understand how this impacts the Pirates farm system?
(A little more help. This means the Pirates could not sign their 2012 #1 (Appel) and the 2013 replacement pick is simply tossed away. Whether he was any good or not is not the question, it's the total waste of a critical pick).
Maybe he's no longer much of a prospect a star some want to argue. If that's the case, then Neal simply had another very poor draft in 2013. If Meadows doesn't develop it will be a complete failure.
This was suppose to be a huge draft two picks within the top #14. Frazier and Kuhl are the only bright spots. For an organization dependent on the draft, this is a failure.
If the player stinks and doesn't improve, how are they still considered a loss or even a top prospect?
It could just be a bad draft. It will be, especially, if Meadows doesn't make an impact. McGuire was a miss in drafting. He is not good, is regressing as a player. Not sure how trading him hurt the farm?
Are you being serious? The #14 player in the draft is already out of the Pirate system, literally for nothing. And you don't understand how this impacts the Pirates farm system?
(A little more help. This means the Pirates could not sign their 2012 #1 (Appel) and the 2013 replacement pick is simply tossed away. Whether he was any good or not is not the question, it's the total waste of a critical pick).
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5C575F5356574C090F784159505757165B57380 wrote: Harrison, Mercer, maybe a healthy Cervelli? Kang? Why didn't you include them in the core?
Polanco is a fine addition. He might not be a super star like some hoped, but he is a fine second tier player. He is still improving. He is only in his third year and can be here for another six years. He can duplicate 2016 with even more power and a higher average.
Harrison will probably be gone, maybe as soon as this deadline. Mercer might be here. While I like Cervelli, I'm not sure Diaz isn't better already and if he continues to have concussions he looses all his value as a regular position player. It's pretty obvious why Kang isn't included. No Polanco is not good and no he is not improving, if anything he has taken a huge step backwards. I'm not sure what player you are watching. Last season he worked on making his swing shorter and more compact. It worked for a while and then he reverted right back to that long slow swing that he still has today. That swing is not going to be continuously successful. He may get some hot streaks from time to time but it's never going to be consistent. Polanco would be one of the players I would shop hoping that someone pays for potential. I've watched his swing in slow motion and compared it to other good hitters, trust me his swing is not good.
Polanco looks hurt to me. I expected him to break out this year. He is clearly not doing that. I would not give up on him or call him a bust. His 2016 season was very solid. If he duplicates that season, he will start on many teams as a piece to the puzzle.
And if he doesn't develop and the Pirates sit while his value plummets, you can probably forget about the Pirates competing again in the 21st century. For whatever reason, many of the Pirate's critical prospects don't follow a normal trajectory.
The Pirates have got to do a better job at evaluating their talent. They can't let it turn to dust.
Polanco is a fine addition. He might not be a super star like some hoped, but he is a fine second tier player. He is still improving. He is only in his third year and can be here for another six years. He can duplicate 2016 with even more power and a higher average.
Harrison will probably be gone, maybe as soon as this deadline. Mercer might be here. While I like Cervelli, I'm not sure Diaz isn't better already and if he continues to have concussions he looses all his value as a regular position player. It's pretty obvious why Kang isn't included. No Polanco is not good and no he is not improving, if anything he has taken a huge step backwards. I'm not sure what player you are watching. Last season he worked on making his swing shorter and more compact. It worked for a while and then he reverted right back to that long slow swing that he still has today. That swing is not going to be continuously successful. He may get some hot streaks from time to time but it's never going to be consistent. Polanco would be one of the players I would shop hoping that someone pays for potential. I've watched his swing in slow motion and compared it to other good hitters, trust me his swing is not good.
Polanco looks hurt to me. I expected him to break out this year. He is clearly not doing that. I would not give up on him or call him a bust. His 2016 season was very solid. If he duplicates that season, he will start on many teams as a piece to the puzzle.
And if he doesn't develop and the Pirates sit while his value plummets, you can probably forget about the Pirates competing again in the 21st century. For whatever reason, many of the Pirate's critical prospects don't follow a normal trajectory.
The Pirates have got to do a better job at evaluating their talent. They can't let it turn to dust.
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3235232B2532757900272D21292C6E232F2D400 wrote:
But, as you say, what a scam. Do the Pirates even scout Latin America any longer?
Good question. And here's a follow up to that.
People point to Gregory Polanco and Alan Hansen as Pirate organization SUCCESS STORIES from Latin America.
WHAT?!?
On what planet are Polanco and Hansen considered success stories?
The planet is called, "Nutting Propaganda Machine." I mean, that's a decade of supposedly developing Latin American talent.
So, in addition to the facade that's been created by the Propaganda machine, there's this question:
If Nutting really wanted to win, wouldn't he look at those awful results of all of his money being invested in Latin America and get rid of the people that work for him that achieved those zero results?
Hell no!! Because they achieved exactly what he wanted. The franchise is worth over a billion f-ing dollars now!!!! Every penny he invested in Latin America may have produced nothing in terms of on field results, but it kept the money churning machine moving where it needs to be.
But everybody be ready!!!! Hold onto your hats for Kevin Newman!!! Oh my god!!! He might even be as good as Jordy Mercer!!!! And we'll have acquired Newman at a very appropriate acquisition cost!!!!!! Quick!!! Let's see what Tim Williams has to say about Kevin Kramer?!?!?!?!? Oh wait, or were we talking about Kevin Newman?!?!?!?
Are they the same person?!?!?!?!? No worries!!!!!!! Everything is great!!!!!!!!!!!
But, as you say, what a scam. Do the Pirates even scout Latin America any longer?
Good question. And here's a follow up to that.
People point to Gregory Polanco and Alan Hansen as Pirate organization SUCCESS STORIES from Latin America.
WHAT?!?
On what planet are Polanco and Hansen considered success stories?
The planet is called, "Nutting Propaganda Machine." I mean, that's a decade of supposedly developing Latin American talent.
So, in addition to the facade that's been created by the Propaganda machine, there's this question:
If Nutting really wanted to win, wouldn't he look at those awful results of all of his money being invested in Latin America and get rid of the people that work for him that achieved those zero results?
Hell no!! Because they achieved exactly what he wanted. The franchise is worth over a billion f-ing dollars now!!!! Every penny he invested in Latin America may have produced nothing in terms of on field results, but it kept the money churning machine moving where it needs to be.
But everybody be ready!!!! Hold onto your hats for Kevin Newman!!! Oh my god!!! He might even be as good as Jordy Mercer!!!! And we'll have acquired Newman at a very appropriate acquisition cost!!!!!! Quick!!! Let's see what Tim Williams has to say about Kevin Kramer?!?!?!?!? Oh wait, or were we talking about Kevin Newman?!?!?!?
Are they the same person?!?!?!?!? No worries!!!!!!! Everything is great!!!!!!!!!!!
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rucker59@gmail.com
FIRE SALE!!
79594A5756380 wrote:
But, as you say, what a scam. Do the Pirates even scout Latin America any longer?
Good question. And here's a follow up to that.
People point to Gregory Polanco and Alan Hansen as Pirate organization SUCCESS STORIES from Latin America.
WHAT?!?
On what planet are Polanco and Hansen considered success stories?
The planet is called, "Nutting Propaganda Machine." I mean, that's a decade of supposedly developing Latin American talent.
So, in addition to the facade that's been created by the Propaganda machine, there's this question:
If Nutting really wanted to win, wouldn't he look at those awful results of all of his money being invested in Latin America and get rid of the people that work for him that achieved those zero results?
Hell no!! Because they achieved exactly what he wanted. The franchise is worth over a billion f-ing dollars now!!!! Every penny he invested in Latin America may have produced nothing in terms of on field results, but it kept the money churning machine moving where it needs to be.
But everybody be ready!!!! Hold onto your hats for Kevin Newman!!! Oh my god!!! He might even be as good as Jordy Mercer!!!! And we'll have acquired Newman at a very appropriate acquisition cost!!!!!! Quick!!! Let's see what Tim Williams has to say about Kevin Kramer?!?!?!?!? Oh wait, or were we talking about Kevin Newman?!?!?!?
Are they the same person?!?!?!?!? No worries!!!!!!! Everything is great!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm serous about this statement: I believe Nutting would move the team out of Pittsburgh if he could make a few extra dollars and MLB would allow it.
I think there is a movie about this - ownership trying to kill the value of a MLB team so it could be moved....I actually think Nutting watched and came to the conclusion he could really do it. Drive the fans away. Cry to MLB, and move to some other cash cow.
But, as you say, what a scam. Do the Pirates even scout Latin America any longer?
Good question. And here's a follow up to that.
People point to Gregory Polanco and Alan Hansen as Pirate organization SUCCESS STORIES from Latin America.
WHAT?!?
On what planet are Polanco and Hansen considered success stories?
The planet is called, "Nutting Propaganda Machine." I mean, that's a decade of supposedly developing Latin American talent.
So, in addition to the facade that's been created by the Propaganda machine, there's this question:
If Nutting really wanted to win, wouldn't he look at those awful results of all of his money being invested in Latin America and get rid of the people that work for him that achieved those zero results?
Hell no!! Because they achieved exactly what he wanted. The franchise is worth over a billion f-ing dollars now!!!! Every penny he invested in Latin America may have produced nothing in terms of on field results, but it kept the money churning machine moving where it needs to be.
But everybody be ready!!!! Hold onto your hats for Kevin Newman!!! Oh my god!!! He might even be as good as Jordy Mercer!!!! And we'll have acquired Newman at a very appropriate acquisition cost!!!!!! Quick!!! Let's see what Tim Williams has to say about Kevin Kramer?!?!?!?!? Oh wait, or were we talking about Kevin Newman?!?!?!?
Are they the same person?!?!?!?!? No worries!!!!!!! Everything is great!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm serous about this statement: I believe Nutting would move the team out of Pittsburgh if he could make a few extra dollars and MLB would allow it.
I think there is a movie about this - ownership trying to kill the value of a MLB team so it could be moved....I actually think Nutting watched and came to the conclusion he could really do it. Drive the fans away. Cry to MLB, and move to some other cash cow.
FIRE SALE!!
505741494750171B62454F434B4E0C414D4F220 wrote:
But, as you say, what a scam. Do the Pirates even scout Latin America any longer?
Good question. And here's a follow up to that.
People point to Gregory Polanco and Alan Hansen as Pirate organization SUCCESS STORIES from Latin America.
WHAT?!?
On what planet are Polanco and Hansen considered success stories?
The planet is called, "Nutting Propaganda Machine." I mean, that's a decade of supposedly developing Latin American talent.
So, in addition to the facade that's been created by the Propaganda machine, there's this question:
If Nutting really wanted to win, wouldn't he look at those awful results of all of his money being invested in Latin America and get rid of the people that work for him that achieved those zero results?
Hell no!! Because they achieved exactly what he wanted. The franchise is worth over a billion f-ing dollars now!!!! Every penny he invested in Latin America may have produced nothing in terms of on field results, but it kept the money churning machine moving where it needs to be.
But everybody be ready!!!! Hold onto your hats for Kevin Newman!!! Oh my god!!! He might even be as good as Jordy Mercer!!!! And we'll have acquired Newman at a very appropriate acquisition cost!!!!!! Quick!!! Let's see what Tim Williams has to say about Kevin Kramer?!?!?!?!? Oh wait, or were we talking about Kevin Newman?!?!?!?
Are they the same person?!?!?!?!? No worries!!!!!!! Everything is great!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm serous about this statement: I believe Nutting would move the team out of Pittsburgh if he could make a few extra dollars and MLB would allow it.
I think there is a movie about this - ownership trying to kill the value of a MLB team so it could be moved....I actually think Nutting watched and came to the conclusion he could really do it. Drive the fans away. Cry to MLB, and move to some other cash cow.
Yep, that's the plot of Major League. I'd take it though. In that movie the rag-tag bunch of players for a mid-west team with no resources ended up winning.
But, as you say, what a scam. Do the Pirates even scout Latin America any longer?
Good question. And here's a follow up to that.
People point to Gregory Polanco and Alan Hansen as Pirate organization SUCCESS STORIES from Latin America.
WHAT?!?
On what planet are Polanco and Hansen considered success stories?
The planet is called, "Nutting Propaganda Machine." I mean, that's a decade of supposedly developing Latin American talent.
So, in addition to the facade that's been created by the Propaganda machine, there's this question:
If Nutting really wanted to win, wouldn't he look at those awful results of all of his money being invested in Latin America and get rid of the people that work for him that achieved those zero results?
Hell no!! Because they achieved exactly what he wanted. The franchise is worth over a billion f-ing dollars now!!!! Every penny he invested in Latin America may have produced nothing in terms of on field results, but it kept the money churning machine moving where it needs to be.
But everybody be ready!!!! Hold onto your hats for Kevin Newman!!! Oh my god!!! He might even be as good as Jordy Mercer!!!! And we'll have acquired Newman at a very appropriate acquisition cost!!!!!! Quick!!! Let's see what Tim Williams has to say about Kevin Kramer?!?!?!?!? Oh wait, or were we talking about Kevin Newman?!?!?!?
Are they the same person?!?!?!?!? No worries!!!!!!! Everything is great!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm serous about this statement: I believe Nutting would move the team out of Pittsburgh if he could make a few extra dollars and MLB would allow it.
I think there is a movie about this - ownership trying to kill the value of a MLB team so it could be moved....I actually think Nutting watched and came to the conclusion he could really do it. Drive the fans away. Cry to MLB, and move to some other cash cow.
Yep, that's the plot of Major League. I'd take it though. In that movie the rag-tag bunch of players for a mid-west team with no resources ended up winning.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
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0E0F1405135354600 wrote: Harrison, Mercer, maybe a healthy Cervelli? Kang? Why didn't you include them in the core?
Polanco is a fine addition. He might not be a super star like some hoped, but he is a fine second tier player. He is still improving. He is only in his third year and can be here for another six years. He can duplicate 2016 with even more power and a higher average.[/quot
Weren't you one of the regulars that wanted rid of Harrison anyway? I'm pretty sure last season you said his contract was bad for the Pirates. Now you include him in your core going forward?
I am not a fan of Harrison. He is under contract, he is playing very well. No one can deny that. He deserves the All Star Game. He is signed. A bad contract can still be part of the core. I don't think he is going to be worth $10 million, $10.5 and $11.5 the next three years. I hope I am wrong.
Polanco is a fine addition. He might not be a super star like some hoped, but he is a fine second tier player. He is still improving. He is only in his third year and can be here for another six years. He can duplicate 2016 with even more power and a higher average.[/quot
Weren't you one of the regulars that wanted rid of Harrison anyway? I'm pretty sure last season you said his contract was bad for the Pirates. Now you include him in your core going forward?
I am not a fan of Harrison. He is under contract, he is playing very well. No one can deny that. He deserves the All Star Game. He is signed. A bad contract can still be part of the core. I don't think he is going to be worth $10 million, $10.5 and $11.5 the next three years. I hope I am wrong.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
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7572646C6275323E47606A666E6B2964686A070 wrote: Someone can try to defend the trade all they want to, but our farm system took a big hit in dumping Lariano's salary. I think folks forget that McGuire was the overall #14 pick! He's just gone.
Maybe he's no longer much of a prospect a star some want to argue. If that's the case, then Neal simply had another very poor draft in 2013. If Meadows doesn't develop it will be a complete failure.
This was suppose to be a huge draft two picks within the top #14. Frazier and Kuhl are the only bright spots. For an organization dependent on the draft, this is a failure.
If the player stinks and doesn't improve, how are they still considered a loss or even a top prospect?
It could just be a bad draft. It will be, especially, if Meadows doesn't make an impact. McGuire was a miss in drafting. He is not good, is regressing as a player. Not sure how trading him hurt the farm?
Are you being serious? The #14 player in the draft is already out of the Pirate system, literally for nothing. And you don't understand how this impacts the Pirates farm system?
(A little more help. This means the Pirates could not sign their 2012 #1 (Appel) and the 2013 replacement pick is simply tossed away. Whether he was any good or not is not the question, it's the total waste of a critical pick).
Umm...yeah, he was a bad pick. Keeping McGuire doesn't help the farm system or make it better overall. You are saying that if he was still in the system, the system would be better. He was just a body as he was not progressing. I think you are overrating him as a prospect.
Maybe he's no longer much of a prospect a star some want to argue. If that's the case, then Neal simply had another very poor draft in 2013. If Meadows doesn't develop it will be a complete failure.
This was suppose to be a huge draft two picks within the top #14. Frazier and Kuhl are the only bright spots. For an organization dependent on the draft, this is a failure.
If the player stinks and doesn't improve, how are they still considered a loss or even a top prospect?
It could just be a bad draft. It will be, especially, if Meadows doesn't make an impact. McGuire was a miss in drafting. He is not good, is regressing as a player. Not sure how trading him hurt the farm?
Are you being serious? The #14 player in the draft is already out of the Pirate system, literally for nothing. And you don't understand how this impacts the Pirates farm system?
(A little more help. This means the Pirates could not sign their 2012 #1 (Appel) and the 2013 replacement pick is simply tossed away. Whether he was any good or not is not the question, it's the total waste of a critical pick).
Umm...yeah, he was a bad pick. Keeping McGuire doesn't help the farm system or make it better overall. You are saying that if he was still in the system, the system would be better. He was just a body as he was not progressing. I think you are overrating him as a prospect.
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7050435E5F310 wrote:
Keith Law had our systemranked 4th and baseball America had it ranked 7th.
Our bullpen is a mess, the defense is a mess, the hitting a mess, but we have a decent core and there is nothing wrong with our farm.
Josh Bell and Tyler Glasnow are no longer considered prospects.
Austin Meadows has been injured and not performing well.
Kevin Newman has not hit.
Mitch Keller is the only top prospect performing well.
Baseball America will likely drop the Pirates 5-10 spots in their rankings to the middle of the pack.
All system have guys graduate and not produce..
They had 11 all stars in Bradenton, good pitching through the system. Kramer, the kid from Wake, Ke'bryan, Tucker, Luplaw have all had good seasons
Throw in what I think is a real good draft and we'll easily hold where we are .
There are a whole lot of systems devoid of talent.
Keith Law had our systemranked 4th and baseball America had it ranked 7th.
Our bullpen is a mess, the defense is a mess, the hitting a mess, but we have a decent core and there is nothing wrong with our farm.
Josh Bell and Tyler Glasnow are no longer considered prospects.
Austin Meadows has been injured and not performing well.
Kevin Newman has not hit.
Mitch Keller is the only top prospect performing well.
Baseball America will likely drop the Pirates 5-10 spots in their rankings to the middle of the pack.
All system have guys graduate and not produce..
They had 11 all stars in Bradenton, good pitching through the system. Kramer, the kid from Wake, Ke'bryan, Tucker, Luplaw have all had good seasons
Throw in what I think is a real good draft and we'll easily hold where we are .
There are a whole lot of systems devoid of talent.
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UtahPirate
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506D6A706D6A040 wrote:
Keith Law had our systemranked 4th and baseball America had it ranked 7th.
Our bullpen is a mess, the defense is a mess, the hitting a mess, but we have a decent core and there is nothing wrong with our farm.
Josh Bell and Tyler Glasnow are no longer considered prospects.
Austin Meadows has been injured and not performing well.
Kevin Newman has not hit.
Mitch Keller is the only top prospect performing well.
Baseball America will likely drop the Pirates 5-10 spots in their rankings to the middle of the pack.
All system have guys graduate and not produce..
They had 11 all stars in Bradenton, good pitching through the system. Kramer, the kid from Wake, Ke'bryan, Tucker, Luplaw have all had good seasons
Throw in what I think is a real good draft and we'll easily hold where we are .
There are a whole lot of systems devoid of talent.
The top 5 BA minor leagues systems are Braves, Yankees, Astros, Dodgers, White Sox. The Braves have sold pieces for two years now and were #3 in 2016, but #29 in 2015. The Yankees were #17 in 2016 and White Sox #23. Both teams got their prospects and ranking from selling highly rated players at the deadline last year -- Chapman and Sale. Astros and Dodgers have drafted well.
If we do sell seriously at the deadline (meaning either Cutch or Cole) you'll see our system move up from #7, not down, even though we've graduated several prospects. Both of those players will bring more than one top prospect. If the Dodgers want the ring this year, I can see them make a serious move at the deadline for Cutch. That weakens their system while strengthening ours.
Keith Law had our systemranked 4th and baseball America had it ranked 7th.
Our bullpen is a mess, the defense is a mess, the hitting a mess, but we have a decent core and there is nothing wrong with our farm.
Josh Bell and Tyler Glasnow are no longer considered prospects.
Austin Meadows has been injured and not performing well.
Kevin Newman has not hit.
Mitch Keller is the only top prospect performing well.
Baseball America will likely drop the Pirates 5-10 spots in their rankings to the middle of the pack.
All system have guys graduate and not produce..
They had 11 all stars in Bradenton, good pitching through the system. Kramer, the kid from Wake, Ke'bryan, Tucker, Luplaw have all had good seasons
Throw in what I think is a real good draft and we'll easily hold where we are .
There are a whole lot of systems devoid of talent.
The top 5 BA minor leagues systems are Braves, Yankees, Astros, Dodgers, White Sox. The Braves have sold pieces for two years now and were #3 in 2016, but #29 in 2015. The Yankees were #17 in 2016 and White Sox #23. Both teams got their prospects and ranking from selling highly rated players at the deadline last year -- Chapman and Sale. Astros and Dodgers have drafted well.
If we do sell seriously at the deadline (meaning either Cutch or Cole) you'll see our system move up from #7, not down, even though we've graduated several prospects. Both of those players will bring more than one top prospect. If the Dodgers want the ring this year, I can see them make a serious move at the deadline for Cutch. That weakens their system while strengthening ours.