Official Game Thread - 615 - Shelty's Stooges @ The Nats

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SCBucco
Posts: 1791
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2016 11:47 am

Official Game Thread - 615 - Shelty's Stooges @ The Nats

Post by SCBucco »

220F02131405125251600 wrote: Seeing as how we've had four winning seasons since 1993, I think we all know what to expect.  Some don't want to face it.  Others do.



Success will be based on a large part, on how successful the club is at talent retention.  We were able to keep the best player that the team's had since Barry Bonds only when he was willing to sign a very team-friendly extension.  Even then, the Pirates never had any intention of fulfilling that entire contract.  I remember how critical fans and Coonelly were when the Marlins backloaded Stanton's contract.  We did the exact same thing, only with far fewer dollars.



I don't know who the first player is going to be to sign an extension.  But, it's going to take a lot more than just one for the team to make the jump again.
I don't think talent retention is a realistic option. What good player would want to stay when he could leave? Not unless the Pirates significantly overpaid and that won't happen. The plan seems to be to obtain talent in the minors at each level to keep feeding the MLB roster for a period of years since good players will be leaving. Keeping their good players would be a much better plan. But Nutting won't overpay and there's no other reason for those players to stay if they have a chance to get away and spend a good portion of their career with a better organization.



It seems to me that BC realizes this and is trying to improve the team much as possible via trades for prospects with the understanding that Nutting won't pay to keep or obtain talent so there's no other way. It's far from ideal and not what I or other fans would prefer. But these are the Pirates. :(


Your last graph is spot on. You have to wonder what type of bs Nutting gave Cherrington regarding resources and when the time comes to up them. You also have to wonder why BC trusts Bob and even more, why on earth he took this job if that is the gameplay from here on out - which I don't disagree with your thought process at all.
GreenWeenie
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Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm

Official Game Thread - 615 - Shelty's Stooges @ The Nats

Post by GreenWeenie »

This was a no-brainer for Cherington- take the job!



First, we were a certified A-! Dumpster Fire. We all know it. The world knew it. If we WEREN'T a dumpster fire, Huntington and Hurdle would still be here, and Coonelly might be. Jobs only become available when A) the previous guy dies, B) the previous guy retires, or C) the team stinks.

=========



So, with us being a Certified Cluster of a Dumpster Fire, there is only one way to go- up.



There is no way Ben could make the team worse on his own- three years on. The only way that Ben CAN'T improve the club is if he is held back by.....we know whom.



So, Ben knows that he has an Automatic Excuse that everyone on earth understands.

============



All the guy needs to do is find the way to win two playoff rounds to advance beyond what Huntington was able to accomplish. That's no easy task, but it's possible. Ben does that, and he's set for life.
GreenWeenie
Posts: 4012
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm

Official Game Thread - 615 - Shelty's Stooges @ The Nats

Post by GreenWeenie »

I thought I read somethinga about "Run Differential."@@@@@
Bobster21

Official Game Thread - 615 - Shelty's Stooges @ The Nats

Post by Bobster21 »

093C2B2B20192B2B20272B4E0 wrote: This was a no-brainer for Cherington- take the job!



First, we were a certified A-! Dumpster Fire.  We all know it.  The world knew it.  If we WEREN'T a dumpster fire, Huntington and Hurdle would still be here, and Coonelly might be.  Jobs only become available when A) the previous guy dies, B) the previous guy retires, or C) the team stinks.

=========



So, with us being a Certified Cluster of a Dumpster Fire, there is only one way to go- up. 



There is no way Ben could make the team worse on his own- three years on.  The only way that Ben CAN'T improve the club is if he is held back by.....we know whom.



So, Ben knows that he has an Automatic Excuse that everyone on earth understands.

============



All the guy needs to do is find the way to win two playoff rounds to advance beyond what Huntington was able to accomplish.  That's no easy task, but it's possible.  Ben does that, and he's set for life. 
That's probably accurate. A no-lose situation that might springboard him to a better GM job elsewhere. With all the prospects he's acquired, it appears he's trying to circumvent Nutting's cheapness via an alternate route even though there are no guarantees that this rebuild will succeed. If it doesn't work, it will be because Nutting didn't provide the resources and this was the best BC could do absent the owner's financial commitment.



Of course the key for BC is that he develop some very good players even if they fall short of winning in the post season. NH had the same plan but rarely developed good players. So the Pirate GM job has not been a springboard for NH.
GreenWeenie
Posts: 4012
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm

Official Game Thread - 615 - Shelty's Stooges @ The Nats

Post by GreenWeenie »

One key difrerence between the two- prior experience.



As experienced as Huntington was, he wasn't at the same level as Cherington before coming to the Pirates. I don't think BC would have given Jason Bay for Andy LaRoche. That wasn't the finest of starts, though Huntington did better until the Waterloo Trade.



My expectation for Cherington is President of (Some Club's) Baseball Operation. Seems to be the latest thing for guys at the GM level.
ArnoldRothstein

Official Game Thread - 615 - Shelty's Stooges @ The Nats

Post by ArnoldRothstein »

D-backs jumped to a seven run lead in two innings, gave it all back to fall to the Giants, 9-8. Their 12th straight loss.
bucs607179
Posts: 1064
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:08 pm

Official Game Thread - 615 - Shelty's Stooges @ The Nats

Post by bucs607179 »

1A293534373F09342F33282F3E32355B0 wrote: D-backs jumped to a seven run lead in two innings, gave it all back to fall to the Giants, 9-8. Their 12th straight loss.


Great battle going on between us and them. Need them to win and then we just are 3 away from tying. Get em Bucs.
bucs607179
Posts: 1064
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:08 pm

Official Game Thread - 615 - Shelty's Stooges @ The Nats

Post by bucs607179 »

Done with the Beatles making No. 9 easy peezy.



Pearl Jam's first and best album is in sight, Ten.
GreenWeenie
Posts: 4012
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm

Official Game Thread - 615 - Shelty's Stooges @ The Nats

Post by GreenWeenie »

You can have all the Pearl Jam you want.



I'll gladly take all the BO DEREK I want!
bucs607179
Posts: 1064
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:08 pm

Official Game Thread - 615 - Shelty's Stooges @ The Nats

Post by bucs607179 »

497C6B6B60596B6B60676B0E0 wrote: You can have all the Pearl Jam you want.



I'll gladly take all the BO DEREK I want! 


My first thought but was sticking to rock albums.
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