757E767A7F7E652026516870797E7E3F727E110 wrote: Need to build a core of young players first. That's how teams win. Even the Cubs and Red Sox ended their hundred year drought by building a core. The Yankees ended their 18 year drought that way too. Young talent producing together is the key to playoff and championship teams. The 1997 Marlins were the exception.
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The problem is that we always are building young cores, but we never add the high priced players that we need to win. "Building a core" is nothing more than kicking the can don the road.
Why do they have to be high priced?
The Pirates recent run they added AJ Burnett, Francisco Liriano and Russell Martin. Those three put the Pirates over the top after the core was in place. Others did too, but they were the main pieces in my opinion.
They added Burnett when he was 35 and coming off back to back 5+ ERA seasons in NY. And they only got him because NY paid most of his salary. Liriano was a reclamation project also coming off back to back 5+ ERA seasons as well as injuries. He came cheap because of that. They got Martin after his hitting had declined for 5 consecutive years until hitting just .211 the season before they acquired him. Each became a very useful player. But Burnett was already nearing the end of his career when they got him. Liriano could not maintain his success. And Martin was a great catcher but the Pirates would not pay to keep him after his 2-year deal was over.
High level performing players in their prime come with salaries the Pirates won't pay. That is why they use this alternative strategy. But it's hit or miss. Older players, reclamation projects and declining players in the hope that they outperform their previous seasons. The strategy worked briefly inasmuch as they had 3 winning seasons but quickly failed in the postseason, and now they're back to where they were before.
This year's team seems to be all about developing a young core and did not bring in the older, declining or previously injured types of veterans we are accustomed to. Dickerson was a very unique situation. Kudos for getting him. But we can't count on teams DFAing their reasonably priced All-Stars every year. So if we optimistically hope that this 2018 edition develops a solid young core, what type of acquisitions can we expect to supplement them in seasons to come? A productive veteran or 2 in their prime? Or will they have to get by with older or declining or reclamation players and hope for a brief rebound. Because even when it seemed to work with Burnett, Liriano and Martin, the "success" was short lived and too limited. We have a right to expect a legit try to build a championship team (which is what TBMTIB keeps telling us they're doing). Not just a team that avoids losing seasons.
Some Perspective on Polanco
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
Some Perspective on Polanco
There wasn't a "young core" in place anymore so than any other team has a core in any given season. If you replace the word "young" with "Cost controlled' or "under team friendly contract" then it would be more accurate.
Martin, AJ, Liriano, Volquez, Kang, Cervelli. Melancon. Morton. Wandy Rodriguez. None of these guys were young at all. Outside of Cole, the YOUNGEST pitchers were the worst aka back end rotation guys who are fungible. (Locke, Worley)
Cutch was in his prime and under contract. Walker was in his prime and in his last years of arb. Pedro wasn't any good after 2013. (less than 1 WAR per year. Replacement level)
Marte, Jhay, Cole, Justin Wilson. What other major contributor is missing that was "young"? Now, those guys were very valuable. I'm not diminishing their contributions at all. VERY valuable, but the team was balanced, it wasn't young by any stretch of the imagination.
The only reason this revisionist conversation keeps being had is because we keep putting moderately bad baseball teams on the field. They aren't particularly young in age, they aren't particularly high in upside. What they are is inexpensive by the days standards, and unfortunately not particularly TALENTED.
So we go back 3 years and imagine things that aren't there.
You've got a major problem building a new "core" around Bell and Polanco and possibly even Taillon. Major problem is your core isn't real good.
Martin, AJ, Liriano, Volquez, Kang, Cervelli. Melancon. Morton. Wandy Rodriguez. None of these guys were young at all. Outside of Cole, the YOUNGEST pitchers were the worst aka back end rotation guys who are fungible. (Locke, Worley)
Cutch was in his prime and under contract. Walker was in his prime and in his last years of arb. Pedro wasn't any good after 2013. (less than 1 WAR per year. Replacement level)
Marte, Jhay, Cole, Justin Wilson. What other major contributor is missing that was "young"? Now, those guys were very valuable. I'm not diminishing their contributions at all. VERY valuable, but the team was balanced, it wasn't young by any stretch of the imagination.
The only reason this revisionist conversation keeps being had is because we keep putting moderately bad baseball teams on the field. They aren't particularly young in age, they aren't particularly high in upside. What they are is inexpensive by the days standards, and unfortunately not particularly TALENTED.
So we go back 3 years and imagine things that aren't there.
You've got a major problem building a new "core" around Bell and Polanco and possibly even Taillon. Major problem is your core isn't real good.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Some Perspective on Polanco
6A636B7A740E0 wrote: There wasn't a "young core" in place anymore so than any other team has a core in any given season.
If you replace the word "young" with "Cost controlled' or "under team friendly contract" then it would be more accurate.
Martin, AJ, Liriano, Volquez, Kang, Cervelli. Melancon. Morton. Wandy Rodriguez. None of these guys were young at all. Outside of Cole, the YOUNGEST pitchers were the worst aka back end rotation guys who are fungible. (Locke, Worley)
Cutch was in his prime and under contract. Walker was in his prime and in his last years of arb. Pedro wasn't any good after 2013. (less than 1 WAR per year. Replacement level)
Marte, Jhay, Cole, Justin Wilson. What other major contributor is missing that was "young"
They had the 10th youngest line up in baseball in 2013. The 4th youngest in 2014.
If you replace the word "young" with "Cost controlled' or "under team friendly contract" then it would be more accurate.
Martin, AJ, Liriano, Volquez, Kang, Cervelli. Melancon. Morton. Wandy Rodriguez. None of these guys were young at all. Outside of Cole, the YOUNGEST pitchers were the worst aka back end rotation guys who are fungible. (Locke, Worley)
Cutch was in his prime and under contract. Walker was in his prime and in his last years of arb. Pedro wasn't any good after 2013. (less than 1 WAR per year. Replacement level)
Marte, Jhay, Cole, Justin Wilson. What other major contributor is missing that was "young"
They had the 10th youngest line up in baseball in 2013. The 4th youngest in 2014.
Some Perspective on Polanco
3F343C3035342F6A6C1B223A3334347538345B0 wrote: There wasn't a "young core" in place anymore so than any other team has a core in any given season.
If you replace the word "young" with "Cost controlled' or "under team friendly contract" then it would be more accurate.
Martin, AJ, Liriano, Volquez, Kang, Cervelli. Melancon. Morton. Wandy Rodriguez. None of these guys were young at all. Outside of Cole, the YOUNGEST pitchers were the worst aka back end rotation guys who are fungible. (Locke, Worley)
Cutch was in his prime and under contract. Walker was in his prime and in his last years of arb. Pedro wasn't any good after 2013. (less than 1 WAR per year. Replacement level)
Marte, Jhay, Cole, Justin Wilson. What other major contributor is missing that was "young"
They had the 10th youngest line up in baseball in 2013. The 4th youngest in 2014.
they should have peaked in 2016 or 2017 and maybe they would have if management would have approached the 2016 season differently.
If you replace the word "young" with "Cost controlled' or "under team friendly contract" then it would be more accurate.
Martin, AJ, Liriano, Volquez, Kang, Cervelli. Melancon. Morton. Wandy Rodriguez. None of these guys were young at all. Outside of Cole, the YOUNGEST pitchers were the worst aka back end rotation guys who are fungible. (Locke, Worley)
Cutch was in his prime and under contract. Walker was in his prime and in his last years of arb. Pedro wasn't any good after 2013. (less than 1 WAR per year. Replacement level)
Marte, Jhay, Cole, Justin Wilson. What other major contributor is missing that was "young"
They had the 10th youngest line up in baseball in 2013. The 4th youngest in 2014.
they should have peaked in 2016 or 2017 and maybe they would have if management would have approached the 2016 season differently.
Some Perspective on Polanco
5259515D5859420701764F575E5959185559360 wrote: There wasn't a "young core" in place anymore so than any other team has a core in any given season.
If you replace the word "young" with "Cost controlled' or "under team friendly contract" then it would be more accurate.
Martin, AJ, Liriano, Volquez, Kang, Cervelli. Melancon. Morton. Wandy Rodriguez. None of these guys were young at all. Outside of Cole, the YOUNGEST pitchers were the worst aka back end rotation guys who are fungible. (Locke, Worley)
Cutch was in his prime and under contract. Walker was in his prime and in his last years of arb. Pedro wasn't any good after 2013. (less than 1 WAR per year. Replacement level)
Marte, Jhay, Cole, Justin Wilson. What other major contributor is missing that was "young"
They had the 10th youngest line up in baseball in 2013. The 4th youngest in 2014.
Totally Irrelevant what the average age of their total roster was. Relevant is who the contributors were, and what their ages were at the time. You're on a narrative that is factually incorrect. I listed the players. You're counting replacement level players bringing the average age of the roster down. That has nothing to do with having a "young core". Who is the core of those teams and what were there ages?
All you mean by young is "cost controlled", either through a contract extension or still in arb years. 26-29 year olds aren't young players, they're peak.
Marte, jHay and Cole were young for sure.
If you replace the word "young" with "Cost controlled' or "under team friendly contract" then it would be more accurate.
Martin, AJ, Liriano, Volquez, Kang, Cervelli. Melancon. Morton. Wandy Rodriguez. None of these guys were young at all. Outside of Cole, the YOUNGEST pitchers were the worst aka back end rotation guys who are fungible. (Locke, Worley)
Cutch was in his prime and under contract. Walker was in his prime and in his last years of arb. Pedro wasn't any good after 2013. (less than 1 WAR per year. Replacement level)
Marte, Jhay, Cole, Justin Wilson. What other major contributor is missing that was "young"
They had the 10th youngest line up in baseball in 2013. The 4th youngest in 2014.
Totally Irrelevant what the average age of their total roster was. Relevant is who the contributors were, and what their ages were at the time. You're on a narrative that is factually incorrect. I listed the players. You're counting replacement level players bringing the average age of the roster down. That has nothing to do with having a "young core". Who is the core of those teams and what were there ages?
All you mean by young is "cost controlled", either through a contract extension or still in arb years. 26-29 year olds aren't young players, they're peak.
Marte, jHay and Cole were young for sure.
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DemDog
Some Perspective on Polanco
767D75797C7D662325526B737A7D7D3C717D120 wrote: Need to build a core of young players first. That's how teams win. Even the Cubs and Red Sox ended their hundred year drought by building a core. The Yankees ended their 18 year drought that way too. Young talent producing together is the key to playoff and championship teams. The 1997 Marlins were the exception.
---
The problem is that we always are building young cores, but we never add the high priced players that we need to win. "Building a core" is nothing more than kicking the can don the road.
Why do they have to be high priced?
The Pirates recent run they added AJ Burnett, Francisco Liriano and Russell Martin. Those three put the Pirates over the top after the core was in place. Others did too, but they were the main pieces in my opinion.
Because that is what the market prices are for the kind of players needed to take that young core over the top to a WS championship are more than Nutting wants to spend. So Nutting does his crap of exciting us with some fine young players that he gets rid of when they become too expensive for his taste.
One question Dog, have you been driving your car less the last month or so? Have you decided to get another car that will get you better gas mileage? Or how about a hybrid car. All because gas is over $3 a gal now adays. This is an example of what the Bucs do with that fine young core of players. Put your thinking cap on Dog!!!
---
The problem is that we always are building young cores, but we never add the high priced players that we need to win. "Building a core" is nothing more than kicking the can don the road.
Why do they have to be high priced?
The Pirates recent run they added AJ Burnett, Francisco Liriano and Russell Martin. Those three put the Pirates over the top after the core was in place. Others did too, but they were the main pieces in my opinion.
Because that is what the market prices are for the kind of players needed to take that young core over the top to a WS championship are more than Nutting wants to spend. So Nutting does his crap of exciting us with some fine young players that he gets rid of when they become too expensive for his taste.
One question Dog, have you been driving your car less the last month or so? Have you decided to get another car that will get you better gas mileage? Or how about a hybrid car. All because gas is over $3 a gal now adays. This is an example of what the Bucs do with that fine young core of players. Put your thinking cap on Dog!!!
Some Perspective on Polanco
666D65696C6D763335427B636A6D6D2C616D020 wrote: Need to build a core of young players first. That's how teams win. Even the Cubs and Red Sox ended their hundred year drought by building a core. The Yankees ended their 18 year drought that way too. Young talent producing together is the key to playoff and championship teams. The 1997 Marlins were the exception.
---
The problem is that we always are building young cores, but we never add the high priced players that we need to win. "Building a core" is nothing more than kicking the can don the road.
Why do they have to be high priced?
The Pirates recent run they added AJ Burnett, Francisco Liriano and Russell Martin. Those three put the Pirates over the top after the core was in place. Others did too, but they were the main pieces in my opinion.
--- Your definition of putting "the Pirates over the top" and mine are very different. Mine involves winning a Division Championship for the first time since the Divisional structure was created.
---
The problem is that we always are building young cores, but we never add the high priced players that we need to win. "Building a core" is nothing more than kicking the can don the road.
Why do they have to be high priced?
The Pirates recent run they added AJ Burnett, Francisco Liriano and Russell Martin. Those three put the Pirates over the top after the core was in place. Others did too, but they were the main pieces in my opinion.
--- Your definition of putting "the Pirates over the top" and mine are very different. Mine involves winning a Division Championship for the first time since the Divisional structure was created.
-
Bobster21
Some Perspective on Polanco
1C3821363B203623570 wrote: Need to build a core of young players first. That's how teams win. Even the Cubs and Red Sox ended their hundred year drought by building a core. The Yankees ended their 18 year drought that way too. Young talent producing together is the key to playoff and championship teams. The 1997 Marlins were the exception.
---
The problem is that we always are building young cores, but we never add the high priced players that we need to win. "Building a core" is nothing more than kicking the can don the road.
Why do they have to be high priced?
The Pirates recent run they added AJ Burnett, Francisco Liriano and Russell Martin. Those three put the Pirates over the top after the core was in place. Others did too, but they were the main pieces in my opinion.
--- Your definition of putting "the Pirates over the top" and mine are very different. Mine involves winning a Division Championship for the first time since the Divisional structure was created.
Or at least winning, oh I dunno, maybe...ONE??? playoff series? They sure don't make over the top the way they used to.
---
The problem is that we always are building young cores, but we never add the high priced players that we need to win. "Building a core" is nothing more than kicking the can don the road.
Why do they have to be high priced?
The Pirates recent run they added AJ Burnett, Francisco Liriano and Russell Martin. Those three put the Pirates over the top after the core was in place. Others did too, but they were the main pieces in my opinion.
--- Your definition of putting "the Pirates over the top" and mine are very different. Mine involves winning a Division Championship for the first time since the Divisional structure was created.
Or at least winning, oh I dunno, maybe...ONE??? playoff series? They sure don't make over the top the way they used to.
-
dogknot17@yahoo.co
Some Perspective on Polanco
77565E775C54330 wrote: Need to build a core of young players first. That's how teams win. Even the Cubs and Red Sox ended their hundred year drought by building a core. The Yankees ended their 18 year drought that way too. Young talent producing together is the key to playoff and championship teams. The 1997 Marlins were the exception.
---
The problem is that we always are building young cores, but we never add the high priced players that we need to win. "Building a core" is nothing more than kicking the can don the road.
Why do they have to be high priced?
The Pirates recent run they added AJ Burnett, Francisco Liriano and Russell Martin. Those three put the Pirates over the top after the core was in place. Others did too, but they were the main pieces in my opinion.
Because that is what the market prices are for the kind of players needed to take that young core over the top to a WS championship are more than Nutting wants to spend. So Nutting does his crap of exciting us with some fine young players that he gets rid of when they become too expensive for his taste.
One question Dog, have you been driving your car less the last month or so? Have you decided to get another car that will get you better gas mileage? Or how about a hybrid car. All because gas is over $3 a gal now adays. This is an example of what the Bucs do with that fine young core of players. Put your thinking cap on Dog!!!
Explain that example again. That was more than one question too.
---
The problem is that we always are building young cores, but we never add the high priced players that we need to win. "Building a core" is nothing more than kicking the can don the road.
Why do they have to be high priced?
The Pirates recent run they added AJ Burnett, Francisco Liriano and Russell Martin. Those three put the Pirates over the top after the core was in place. Others did too, but they were the main pieces in my opinion.
Because that is what the market prices are for the kind of players needed to take that young core over the top to a WS championship are more than Nutting wants to spend. So Nutting does his crap of exciting us with some fine young players that he gets rid of when they become too expensive for his taste.
One question Dog, have you been driving your car less the last month or so? Have you decided to get another car that will get you better gas mileage? Or how about a hybrid car. All because gas is over $3 a gal now adays. This is an example of what the Bucs do with that fine young core of players. Put your thinking cap on Dog!!!
Explain that example again. That was more than one question too.
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DemDog
Some Perspective on Polanco
656E666A6F6E753036417860696E6E2F626E010 wrote: Need to build a core of young players first. That's how teams win. Even the Cubs and Red Sox ended their hundred year drought by building a core. The Yankees ended their 18 year drought that way too. Young talent producing together is the key to playoff and championship teams. The 1997 Marlins were the exception.
---
The problem is that we always are building young cores, but we never add the high priced players that we need to win. "Building a core" is nothing more than kicking the can don the road.
Why do they have to be high priced?
The Pirates recent run they added AJ Burnett, Francisco Liriano and Russell Martin. Those three put the Pirates over the top after the core was in place. Others did too, but they were the main pieces in my opinion.
Because that is what the market prices are for the kind of players needed to take that young core over the top to a WS championship are more than Nutting wants to spend. So Nutting does his crap of exciting us with some fine young players that he gets rid of when they become too expensive for his taste.
One question Dog, have you been driving your car less the last month or so? Have you decided to get another car that will get you better gas mileage? Or how about a hybrid car. All because gas is over $3 a gal now adays. This is an example of what the Bucs do with that fine young core of players. [move]Put your thinking cap on Dog!!![/move]
Explain that example again. That was more than one question too.
See the moving words above Dog!!!
---
The problem is that we always are building young cores, but we never add the high priced players that we need to win. "Building a core" is nothing more than kicking the can don the road.
Why do they have to be high priced?
The Pirates recent run they added AJ Burnett, Francisco Liriano and Russell Martin. Those three put the Pirates over the top after the core was in place. Others did too, but they were the main pieces in my opinion.
Because that is what the market prices are for the kind of players needed to take that young core over the top to a WS championship are more than Nutting wants to spend. So Nutting does his crap of exciting us with some fine young players that he gets rid of when they become too expensive for his taste.
One question Dog, have you been driving your car less the last month or so? Have you decided to get another car that will get you better gas mileage? Or how about a hybrid car. All because gas is over $3 a gal now adays. This is an example of what the Bucs do with that fine young core of players. [move]Put your thinking cap on Dog!!![/move]
Explain that example again. That was more than one question too.
See the moving words above Dog!!!