3E3233686168606D6A756F580 wrote: If I were in charge, I would totally do away with the thinking that it is some how a good thing to trade away your good players for untested prospects/suspects. Instead, I would go out and sign FA up to the limit of my payroll constraints and win as many games as possible this year. I would worry about next year at the end of this year instead of playing for a future that never gets to Pittsburgh.
You and I have already bantered back and forth a couple times. Just want to say I appreciate that and your perspectives.
To your post, I'd be in favor of doing what you say if I thought we had the payroll room to do it. Even if they jumped payroll to $100 million with (Marte still on the team), I don't think they could have put together a playoff team. Nutting will never allow a payroll big enough to do as you suggest. Competing via free agency can never work here with a pay roll that tops out at $100-110 million.
---
I think you are right about not being able to put together a playoff team, But, if they spend up to whatever limit Nutting puts on them every year. the year that the moon, stars, and planets all align, then they might just win a Division Championship. As it is now, we will be sold on a future that never gets here in Pittsburgh.
Nutting has proven in the past, with good teams and bad, that he'll always have a payroll well under the league average. He has no intent on paying laborers money he doesn't believe they deserve. He'll pay near the minimum amount that will keep him out of trouble with the other owners and the Union.
Until, and only until, MLB decides to require all of the franchises to have nearly identical payrolls, our lives as Pirates fans will continue as they have since he became the owner, no matter who he hires as the president, the GM, and the manager, unless a miracle occurs.
That is the reason why I believe the Players Union will pursue a salary floor or team average payroll in the upcoming bargaining agreement. The Union is not happy with teams getting money from sources of revenue, and only having a very small team payroll.
I think the owners would never agree to something like this
Ben Cherington say . . .
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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Bobster21
Ben Cherington say . . .
1E35271D352839333F1C3F323F500 wrote: If I were in charge, I would totally do away with the thinking that it is some how a good thing to trade away your good players for untested prospects/suspects. Instead, I would go out and sign FA up to the limit of my payroll constraints and win as many games as possible this year. I would worry about next year at the end of this year instead of playing for a future that never gets to Pittsburgh.
You and I have already bantered back and forth a couple times. Just want to say I appreciate that and your perspectives.
To your post, I'd be in favor of doing what you say if I thought we had the payroll room to do it. Even if they jumped payroll to $100 million with (Marte still on the team), I don't think they could have put together a playoff team. Nutting will never allow a payroll big enough to do as you suggest. Competing via free agency can never work here with a pay roll that tops out at $100-110 million.
---
I think you are right about not being able to put together a playoff team, But, if they spend up to whatever limit Nutting puts on them every year. the year that the moon, stars, and planets all align, then they might just win a Division Championship. As it is now, we will be sold on a future that never gets here in Pittsburgh.
Nutting has proven in the past, with good teams and bad, that he'll always have a payroll well under the league average. He has no intent on paying laborers money he doesn't believe they deserve. He'll pay near the minimum amount that will keep him out of trouble with the other owners and the Union.
Until, and only until, MLB decides to require all of the franchises to have nearly identical payrolls, our lives as Pirates fans will continue as they have since he became the owner, no matter who he hires as the president, the GM, and the manager, unless a miracle occurs.
That is the reason why I believe the Players Union will pursue a salary floor or team average payroll in the upcoming bargaining agreement. The Union is not happy with teams getting money from sources of revenue, and only having a very small team payroll.
I think the owners would never agree to something like this
Yes, it's not as if the owners would say, "Sure, ok. What else can we do for you?" That would be an enormous concession by the owners. I can't even imagine what concession the union would have to make for the owners to agree.
You and I have already bantered back and forth a couple times. Just want to say I appreciate that and your perspectives.
To your post, I'd be in favor of doing what you say if I thought we had the payroll room to do it. Even if they jumped payroll to $100 million with (Marte still on the team), I don't think they could have put together a playoff team. Nutting will never allow a payroll big enough to do as you suggest. Competing via free agency can never work here with a pay roll that tops out at $100-110 million.
---
I think you are right about not being able to put together a playoff team, But, if they spend up to whatever limit Nutting puts on them every year. the year that the moon, stars, and planets all align, then they might just win a Division Championship. As it is now, we will be sold on a future that never gets here in Pittsburgh.
Nutting has proven in the past, with good teams and bad, that he'll always have a payroll well under the league average. He has no intent on paying laborers money he doesn't believe they deserve. He'll pay near the minimum amount that will keep him out of trouble with the other owners and the Union.
Until, and only until, MLB decides to require all of the franchises to have nearly identical payrolls, our lives as Pirates fans will continue as they have since he became the owner, no matter who he hires as the president, the GM, and the manager, unless a miracle occurs.
That is the reason why I believe the Players Union will pursue a salary floor or team average payroll in the upcoming bargaining agreement. The Union is not happy with teams getting money from sources of revenue, and only having a very small team payroll.
I think the owners would never agree to something like this
Yes, it's not as if the owners would say, "Sure, ok. What else can we do for you?" That would be an enormous concession by the owners. I can't even imagine what concession the union would have to make for the owners to agree.
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2drfischer@gmail.c
Ben Cherington say . . .
323E3F646D646C61667963540 wrote: If I were in charge, I would totally do away with the thinking that it is some how a good thing to trade away your good players for untested prospects/suspects. Instead, I would go out and sign FA up to the limit of my payroll constraints and win as many games as possible this year. I would worry about next year at the end of this year instead of playing for a future that never gets to Pittsburgh.
You and I have already bantered back and forth a couple times. Just want to say I appreciate that and your perspectives.
To your post, I'd be in favor of doing what you say if I thought we had the payroll room to do it. Even if they jumped payroll to $100 million with (Marte still on the team), I don't think they could have put together a playoff team. Nutting will never allow a payroll big enough to do as you suggest. Competing via free agency can never work here with a pay roll that tops out at $100-110 million.
---
I think you are right about not being able to put together a playoff team, But, if they spend up to whatever limit Nutting puts on them every year. the year that the moon, stars, and planets all align, then they might just win a Division Championship. As it is now, we will be sold on a future that never gets here in Pittsburgh.
Nutting has proven in the past, with good teams and bad, that he'll always have a payroll well under the league average. He has no intent on paying laborers money he doesn't believe they deserve. He'll pay near the minimum amount that will keep him out of trouble with the other owners and the Union.
Until, and only until, MLB decides to require all of the franchises to have nearly identical payrolls, our lives as Pirates fans will continue as they have since he became the owner, no matter who he hires as the president, the GM, and the manager, unless a miracle occurs.
That is the reason why I believe the Players Union will pursue a salary floor or team average payroll in the upcoming bargaining agreement. The Union is not happy with teams getting money from sources of revenue, and only having a very small team payroll.
I agree the Union would love to have a floor because of owners like Nutting. What they'll have to give up to get it will be interesting to see, like moving free agency back by some number. Personally, I just want equity in payrolls, and if takes a strike or a lockout to get there, I'm okay with it. Because at it stands now, the Pirates have no chance to win a World Series with Nutting as the owner.
You and I have already bantered back and forth a couple times. Just want to say I appreciate that and your perspectives.
To your post, I'd be in favor of doing what you say if I thought we had the payroll room to do it. Even if they jumped payroll to $100 million with (Marte still on the team), I don't think they could have put together a playoff team. Nutting will never allow a payroll big enough to do as you suggest. Competing via free agency can never work here with a pay roll that tops out at $100-110 million.
---
I think you are right about not being able to put together a playoff team, But, if they spend up to whatever limit Nutting puts on them every year. the year that the moon, stars, and planets all align, then they might just win a Division Championship. As it is now, we will be sold on a future that never gets here in Pittsburgh.
Nutting has proven in the past, with good teams and bad, that he'll always have a payroll well under the league average. He has no intent on paying laborers money he doesn't believe they deserve. He'll pay near the minimum amount that will keep him out of trouble with the other owners and the Union.
Until, and only until, MLB decides to require all of the franchises to have nearly identical payrolls, our lives as Pirates fans will continue as they have since he became the owner, no matter who he hires as the president, the GM, and the manager, unless a miracle occurs.
That is the reason why I believe the Players Union will pursue a salary floor or team average payroll in the upcoming bargaining agreement. The Union is not happy with teams getting money from sources of revenue, and only having a very small team payroll.
I agree the Union would love to have a floor because of owners like Nutting. What they'll have to give up to get it will be interesting to see, like moving free agency back by some number. Personally, I just want equity in payrolls, and if takes a strike or a lockout to get there, I'm okay with it. Because at it stands now, the Pirates have no chance to win a World Series with Nutting as the owner.
Ben Cherington say . . .
I think the union has rejected the idea of a floor before. Their concern with a floor was that the owners would want a cap as well. They didn't want to discuss or agree to anything that would set a precedent so far as salary limits. I think they regret today agreeing to the tax on team salaries over a certain amount.
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skinnyhorse
- Posts: 926
- Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:19 am
Ben Cherington say . . .
5F5352090009010C0B140E390 wrote: Maybe I am nieve, but I don’t think they need a rebuild. There is a foundation in place with the following players: Reynolds, Newman, Tucker, Hayes, Musgrove, Keller, Williams, Kuhl, Bell, and possibly Polanco. Sure they need to add players, but there are some players like Cruz in the pipeline. I expect some trades between now and July 31. Guys like Kela, Frazier, and possibly Archer will be moved for pieces of the puzzle. Remember when Syd Thrift was our GM he traded guys like Rich Rhoden and Tony Pena for players who made large contributions to the early 1990’s teams. I have faith in Ben Cherington that he can add players to the foundation that is currently in place.
I think you got to give the guy a chance. Not a 12 year chance but at least a while to see if he's different and can make a difference. We may have some more guys like Reynolds buried in the system. It's all about recognizing and developing talent.
I think you got to give the guy a chance. Not a 12 year chance but at least a while to see if he's different and can make a difference. We may have some more guys like Reynolds buried in the system. It's all about recognizing and developing talent.
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rucker59@gmail.com
Ben Cherington say . . .
2E786E7A756F7F74796E5C7B717D7570327F1C0 wrote: If I were in charge, I would totally do away with the thinking that it is some how a good thing to trade away your good players for untested prospects/suspects. Instead, I would go out and sign FA up to the limit of my payroll constraints and win as many games as possible this year. I would worry about next year at the end of this year instead of playing for a future that never gets to Pittsburgh.
You and I have already bantered back and forth a couple times. Just want to say I appreciate that and your perspectives.
To your post, I'd be in favor of doing what you say if I thought we had the payroll room to do it. Even if they jumped payroll to $100 million with (Marte still on the team), I don't think they could have put together a playoff team. Nutting will never allow a payroll big enough to do as you suggest. Competing via free agency can never work here with a pay roll that tops out at $100-110 million.
---
I think you are right about not being able to put together a playoff team, But, if they spend up to whatever limit Nutting puts on them every year. the year that the moon, stars, and planets all align, then they might just win a Division Championship. As it is now, we will be sold on a future that never gets here in Pittsburgh.
Nutting has proven in the past, with good teams and bad, that he'll always have a payroll well under the league average. He has no intent on paying laborers money he doesn't believe they deserve. He'll pay near the minimum amount that will keep him out of trouble with the other owners and the Union.
Until, and only until, MLB decides to require all of the franchises to have nearly identical payrolls, our lives as Pirates fans will continue as they have since he became the owner, no matter who he hires as the president, the GM, and the manager, unless a miracle occurs.
That is the reason why I believe the Players Union will pursue a salary floor or team average payroll in the upcoming bargaining agreement. The Union is not happy with teams getting money from sources of revenue, and only having a very small team payroll.
I agree the Union would love to have a floor because of owners like Nutting. What they'll have to give up to get it will be interesting to see, like moving free agency back by some number. Personally, I just want equity in payrolls, and if takes a strike or a lockout to get there, I'm okay with it. Because at it stands now, the Pirates have no chance to win a World Series with Nutting as the owner.
I've been pinning my hopes to a floor for a couple years now. I would think most owners would want a floor even without a cap. Surely most other owners are unsympathetic to poor Bob Nutting's plight.
The next CBA is huge for Pittsburgh baseball. An indifferent MLB or MLBPA could equal the death of a historic franchise.
You and I have already bantered back and forth a couple times. Just want to say I appreciate that and your perspectives.
To your post, I'd be in favor of doing what you say if I thought we had the payroll room to do it. Even if they jumped payroll to $100 million with (Marte still on the team), I don't think they could have put together a playoff team. Nutting will never allow a payroll big enough to do as you suggest. Competing via free agency can never work here with a pay roll that tops out at $100-110 million.
---
I think you are right about not being able to put together a playoff team, But, if they spend up to whatever limit Nutting puts on them every year. the year that the moon, stars, and planets all align, then they might just win a Division Championship. As it is now, we will be sold on a future that never gets here in Pittsburgh.
Nutting has proven in the past, with good teams and bad, that he'll always have a payroll well under the league average. He has no intent on paying laborers money he doesn't believe they deserve. He'll pay near the minimum amount that will keep him out of trouble with the other owners and the Union.
Until, and only until, MLB decides to require all of the franchises to have nearly identical payrolls, our lives as Pirates fans will continue as they have since he became the owner, no matter who he hires as the president, the GM, and the manager, unless a miracle occurs.
That is the reason why I believe the Players Union will pursue a salary floor or team average payroll in the upcoming bargaining agreement. The Union is not happy with teams getting money from sources of revenue, and only having a very small team payroll.
I agree the Union would love to have a floor because of owners like Nutting. What they'll have to give up to get it will be interesting to see, like moving free agency back by some number. Personally, I just want equity in payrolls, and if takes a strike or a lockout to get there, I'm okay with it. Because at it stands now, the Pirates have no chance to win a World Series with Nutting as the owner.
I've been pinning my hopes to a floor for a couple years now. I would think most owners would want a floor even without a cap. Surely most other owners are unsympathetic to poor Bob Nutting's plight.
The next CBA is huge for Pittsburgh baseball. An indifferent MLB or MLBPA could equal the death of a historic franchise.
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2drfischer@gmail.c
Ben Cherington say . . .
383F29212F387F730A2D272B2326642925274A0 wrote: If I were in charge, I would totally do away with the thinking that it is some how a good thing to trade away your good players for untested prospects/suspects. Instead, I would go out and sign FA up to the limit of my payroll constraints and win as many games as possible this year. I would worry about next year at the end of this year instead of playing for a future that never gets to Pittsburgh.
You and I have already bantered back and forth a couple times. Just want to say I appreciate that and your perspectives.
To your post, I'd be in favor of doing what you say if I thought we had the payroll room to do it. Even if they jumped payroll to $100 million with (Marte still on the team), I don't think they could have put together a playoff team. Nutting will never allow a payroll big enough to do as you suggest. Competing via free agency can never work here with a pay roll that tops out at $100-110 million.
---
I think you are right about not being able to put together a playoff team, But, if they spend up to whatever limit Nutting puts on them every year. the year that the moon, stars, and planets all align, then they might just win a Division Championship. As it is now, we will be sold on a future that never gets here in Pittsburgh.
Nutting has proven in the past, with good teams and bad, that he'll always have a payroll well under the league average. He has no intent on paying laborers money he doesn't believe they deserve. He'll pay near the minimum amount that will keep him out of trouble with the other owners and the Union.
Until, and only until, MLB decides to require all of the franchises to have nearly identical payrolls, our lives as Pirates fans will continue as they have since he became the owner, no matter who he hires as the president, the GM, and the manager, unless a miracle occurs.
That is the reason why I believe the Players Union will pursue a salary floor or team average payroll in the upcoming bargaining agreement. The Union is not happy with teams getting money from sources of revenue, and only having a very small team payroll.
I agree the Union would love to have a floor because of owners like Nutting. What they'll have to give up to get it will be interesting to see, like moving free agency back by some number. Personally, I just want equity in payrolls, and if takes a strike or a lockout to get there, I'm okay with it. Because at it stands now, the Pirates have no chance to win a World Series with Nutting as the owner.
I've been pinning my hopes to a floor for a couple years now. I would think most owners would want a floor even without a cap. Surely most other owners are unsympathetic to poor Bob Nutting's plight.
The next CBA is huge for Pittsburgh baseball. An indifferent MLB or MLBPA could equal the death of a historic franchise.
My feeling is that the other owners who want to win are fine with Nutting's way of doing business. It means one less team they have to compete with for the World Series. They justify the money Nutting receives as a cost of doing business in order to get the Pirates out of the way.
Like you, I worry about what can happen to the Pirates. They've been part of all of our lives for many years. For them to leave town or be contracted would be tough to take. That's why I could live with a strike or shut down for a year or so in order to achieve equity. I want to see a floor and a cap that are about $3 million apart so that all teams are spending about the same amount. Only then will it be equitable.
You and I have already bantered back and forth a couple times. Just want to say I appreciate that and your perspectives.
To your post, I'd be in favor of doing what you say if I thought we had the payroll room to do it. Even if they jumped payroll to $100 million with (Marte still on the team), I don't think they could have put together a playoff team. Nutting will never allow a payroll big enough to do as you suggest. Competing via free agency can never work here with a pay roll that tops out at $100-110 million.
---
I think you are right about not being able to put together a playoff team, But, if they spend up to whatever limit Nutting puts on them every year. the year that the moon, stars, and planets all align, then they might just win a Division Championship. As it is now, we will be sold on a future that never gets here in Pittsburgh.
Nutting has proven in the past, with good teams and bad, that he'll always have a payroll well under the league average. He has no intent on paying laborers money he doesn't believe they deserve. He'll pay near the minimum amount that will keep him out of trouble with the other owners and the Union.
Until, and only until, MLB decides to require all of the franchises to have nearly identical payrolls, our lives as Pirates fans will continue as they have since he became the owner, no matter who he hires as the president, the GM, and the manager, unless a miracle occurs.
That is the reason why I believe the Players Union will pursue a salary floor or team average payroll in the upcoming bargaining agreement. The Union is not happy with teams getting money from sources of revenue, and only having a very small team payroll.
I agree the Union would love to have a floor because of owners like Nutting. What they'll have to give up to get it will be interesting to see, like moving free agency back by some number. Personally, I just want equity in payrolls, and if takes a strike or a lockout to get there, I'm okay with it. Because at it stands now, the Pirates have no chance to win a World Series with Nutting as the owner.
I've been pinning my hopes to a floor for a couple years now. I would think most owners would want a floor even without a cap. Surely most other owners are unsympathetic to poor Bob Nutting's plight.
The next CBA is huge for Pittsburgh baseball. An indifferent MLB or MLBPA could equal the death of a historic franchise.
My feeling is that the other owners who want to win are fine with Nutting's way of doing business. It means one less team they have to compete with for the World Series. They justify the money Nutting receives as a cost of doing business in order to get the Pirates out of the way.
Like you, I worry about what can happen to the Pirates. They've been part of all of our lives for many years. For them to leave town or be contracted would be tough to take. That's why I could live with a strike or shut down for a year or so in order to achieve equity. I want to see a floor and a cap that are about $3 million apart so that all teams are spending about the same amount. Only then will it be equitable.
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UtahPirate
- Posts: 582
- Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:36 pm
Ben Cherington say . . .
055345515E44545F524577505A565E5B1954370 wrote: I want to see a floor and a cap that are about $3 million apart so that all teams are spending about the same amount. Only then will it be equitable.
;D ;D
;D ;D
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JollyRoger
- Posts: 1469
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:31 pm
Ben Cherington say . . .
717870616F150 wrote: Nobody likes freeloaders. Nutting is a loser. A freeloader. Taking public ?. Taking Yankees and redsox ?, taking MLB BAM money.
Making hundreds of millions in gains off socialism, and not extending himself to try to win.
Nutting is a billionare welfare recipient. Stop corporate welfare Throw this stooge and his team out of town.
Hear hear!
Well spoken Dmetz!
Let’s break out the tar and feathers!
Making hundreds of millions in gains off socialism, and not extending himself to try to win.
Nutting is a billionare welfare recipient. Stop corporate welfare Throw this stooge and his team out of town.
Hear hear!
Well spoken Dmetz!
Let’s break out the tar and feathers!