Two years ago Nutting gave both Hurdle and NH 4-year extensions at a time when both seemed to be less than ideal choices to continue with the team. Many of us were scratching our heads at that decision. Now 2 years into their 4 year deals they are both fired, forcing Nutting to pay them not to work while also paying their replacements to work. This seems to be the exact opposite of how Nutting normally operates, which begs the question, did someone else (Ogden?) pressure him to do something he didn't want to do? Winning has not seemed to be a big priority, especially when he extended his GM and mgr when the team was headed in the wrong direction. And after firing Hurdle and Coonelly he actually said he wasn't going to fire NH. And now it's going to cost him the money he foolishly committed to them. Very unNuttinglike.
Huntington Out
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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WiffleballHero
Huntington Out
557875646372652526170 wrote: Two years ago Nutting gave both Hurdle and NH 4-year extensions at a time when both seemed to be less than ideal choices to continue with the team. Many of us were scratching our heads at that decision. Now 2 years into their 4 year deals they are both fired, forcing Nutting to pay them not to work while also paying their replacements to work. This seems to be the exact opposite of how Nutting normally operates, which begs the question, did someone else (Ogden?) pressure him to do something he didn't want to do? Winning has not seemed to be a big priority, especially when he extended his GM and mgr when the team was headed in the wrong direction. And after firing Hurdle and Coonelly he actually said he wasn't going to fire NH. And now it's going to cost him the money he foolishly committed to them. Very unNuttinglike.
I think Nutting got attached to/enamored with these guys. I'm going with the theory that somebody had to give Nutting an intervention, however that went down. But who knows.
I think Nutting got attached to/enamored with these guys. I'm going with the theory that somebody had to give Nutting an intervention, however that went down. But who knows.
Huntington Out
GM meetings start Nov 11th. Whoever the GM is at those meetings should show up with a "For Sale" sign.
I believe you could put some names on a wall, throw darts at them, and be as successful as NH has been at trading away actual value in the past 3-4 years.
However, I doubt anyone will surpass his ability to sell garbage for a little bit of value . He's the flea market master and a failure at everything else talent and trade related.
Good Riddance. He won on the back of Dave Littlefield's players putting up 10+ WAR out of 2 positions, 15 WAR if you count Marte who was drafted in the DL era. NH has to have the lowest Draft-to-WAR ratio in baseball. He's been a complete disaster. The organization got better today. Hard to get worse.
I believe you could put some names on a wall, throw darts at them, and be as successful as NH has been at trading away actual value in the past 3-4 years.
However, I doubt anyone will surpass his ability to sell garbage for a little bit of value . He's the flea market master and a failure at everything else talent and trade related.
Good Riddance. He won on the back of Dave Littlefield's players putting up 10+ WAR out of 2 positions, 15 WAR if you count Marte who was drafted in the DL era. NH has to have the lowest Draft-to-WAR ratio in baseball. He's been a complete disaster. The organization got better today. Hard to get worse.
Huntington Out
172926262C2522212C2C0825322F400 wrote: Two years ago Nutting gave both Hurdle and NH 4-year extensions at a time when both seemed to be less than ideal choices to continue with the team. Many of us were scratching our heads at that decision. Now 2 years into their 4 year deals they are both fired, forcing Nutting to pay them not to work while also paying their replacements to work. This seems to be the exact opposite of how Nutting normally operates, which begs the question, did someone else (Ogden?) pressure him to do something he didn't want to do? Winning has not seemed to be a big priority, especially when he extended his GM and mgr when the team was headed in the wrong direction. And after firing Hurdle and Coonelly he actually said he wasn't going to fire NH. And now it's going to cost him the money he foolishly committed to them. Very unNuttinglike.
I think Nutting got attached to/enamored with these guys. I'm going with the theory that somebody had to give Nutting an intervention, however that went down. But who knows.
It is very easy to continue with a status quo if people are accepting of such.
I think Nutting got attached to/enamored with these guys. I'm going with the theory that somebody had to give Nutting an intervention, however that went down. But who knows.
It is very easy to continue with a status quo if people are accepting of such.
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JollyRoger
- Posts: 1469
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:31 pm
Huntington Out
This offseason so far proves that the Pirates are the most dysfunctional organization in baseball. The manager is being kept; no he’s being let go. The GM is staying on no he is being fired. The President and organization come to a mutual agreement. A new President is hired with no baseball experience though he does have a background with the Pens who are extremely successful.
It just seems that these decisions were not planned out in an orderly insightful fashion.
It just seems that these decisions were not planned out in an orderly insightful fashion.
Huntington Out
Frankly, I am surprised, mostly because of the extra cash that Nutting will need to pay out for both the GM and Manager positions. I surely hope that this will not severely limit the quality of the talent that the Bucs can attract to these positions, particularly the GM position. As others noted, resigning both Hurdle and Huntington to unnecessary 4 year contracts was a self-created hardship.
To be honest, I liked a lot of what Huntington did up until the last few years. He was very good an obtaining relievers who became great closers and until the 2016 season, finding starters who were good reclamation projects. And, adding Martin complemented a team that went to the play-offs for the first time in forever.
But, the last few years have been painful and confusing; no direction at the top and even less on the field. It was past time for Hurdle, Searage and NH to go (Can't really offer an opinion on Connelly.
Unfortunately, Nutting is still the owner. They have already lost a month in trying to hire a new GM and that is unfortunate with everything that needs to be done this year. They also have lost a month in hiring a Manager who also needs time to replace most of his coaching staff. Ugghh!
A few words of unsolicited advice to the new GM.
1) Look at how many games that the team was completely blown out last season. We need more pitching, including some folks who can manage the middle of the game and now give up 10 runs in the process.
2) This team is not ready to compete. The team does not have a lot of assets to trade, but you should really look at moving Marte (best trade asset) and see if anyone will overpay for Bell (I have my doubts). We need more young pitchers and more power. You need to be bold.
3) You need to show that you really care what happens on the field. This team and franchise lost all accountability in the last few years. Folks will accept more rough patches if you demonstrate that there really is some hope for the future.
To be honest, I liked a lot of what Huntington did up until the last few years. He was very good an obtaining relievers who became great closers and until the 2016 season, finding starters who were good reclamation projects. And, adding Martin complemented a team that went to the play-offs for the first time in forever.
But, the last few years have been painful and confusing; no direction at the top and even less on the field. It was past time for Hurdle, Searage and NH to go (Can't really offer an opinion on Connelly.
Unfortunately, Nutting is still the owner. They have already lost a month in trying to hire a new GM and that is unfortunate with everything that needs to be done this year. They also have lost a month in hiring a Manager who also needs time to replace most of his coaching staff. Ugghh!
A few words of unsolicited advice to the new GM.
1) Look at how many games that the team was completely blown out last season. We need more pitching, including some folks who can manage the middle of the game and now give up 10 runs in the process.
2) This team is not ready to compete. The team does not have a lot of assets to trade, but you should really look at moving Marte (best trade asset) and see if anyone will overpay for Bell (I have my doubts). We need more young pitchers and more power. You need to be bold.
3) You need to show that you really care what happens on the field. This team and franchise lost all accountability in the last few years. Folks will accept more rough patches if you demonstrate that there really is some hope for the future.
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UtahPirate
- Posts: 582
- Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:36 pm
Huntington Out
1C30383F3413243222510 wrote: Frankly, I am surprised, mostly because of the extra cash that Nutting will need to pay out for both the GM and Manager positions. I surely hope that this will not severely limit the quality of the talent that the Bucs can attract to these positions, particularly the GM position. As others noted, resigning both Hurdle and Huntington to unnecessary 4 year contracts was a self-created hardship.
To be honest, I liked a lot of what Huntington did up until the last few years. He was very good an obtaining relievers who became great closers and until the 2016 season, finding starters who were good reclamation projects. And, adding Martin complemented a team that went to the play-offs for the first time in forever.
But, the last few years have been painful and confusing; no direction at the top and even less on the field. It was past time for Hurdle, Searage and NH to go (Can't really offer an opinion on Connelly.
Unfortunately, Nutting is still the owner. They have already lost a month in trying to hire a new GM and that is unfortunate with everything that needs to be done this year. They also have lost a month in hiring a Manager who also needs time to replace most of his coaching staff. Ugghh!
A few words of unsolicited advice to the new GM.
1) Look at how many games that the team was completely blown out last season. We need more pitching, including some folks who can manage the middle of the game and now give up 10 runs in the process.
2) This team is not ready to compete. The team does not have a lot of assets to trade, but you should really look at moving Marte (best trade asset) and see if anyone will overpay for Bell (I have my doubts). We need more young pitchers and more power. You need to be bold.
3) You need to show that you really care what happens on the field. This team and franchise lost all accountability in the last few years. Folks will accept more rough patches if you demonstrate that there really is some hope for the future.
This.
I just can't help but wonder what these manager candidates are thinking -- and I think we've seen some good possibilities so far. Saying there are internal people who have an opinion that can be relied on is a joke. You're a manager candidate and you want to be talking to your GM to make sure you agree on the strategy that is in place to make sure you get players that can win for you on the field. We have wasted so much precious time.
This latest stuff just boggles my mind. The assumption I made is that Nutting must be a good businessman, I guess because he is rich. But this latest fiasco has me thinking he is more of a sliver spooner than anything because he's hardly proving he can oversee an organization, baseball or anything else.
To be honest, I liked a lot of what Huntington did up until the last few years. He was very good an obtaining relievers who became great closers and until the 2016 season, finding starters who were good reclamation projects. And, adding Martin complemented a team that went to the play-offs for the first time in forever.
But, the last few years have been painful and confusing; no direction at the top and even less on the field. It was past time for Hurdle, Searage and NH to go (Can't really offer an opinion on Connelly.
Unfortunately, Nutting is still the owner. They have already lost a month in trying to hire a new GM and that is unfortunate with everything that needs to be done this year. They also have lost a month in hiring a Manager who also needs time to replace most of his coaching staff. Ugghh!
A few words of unsolicited advice to the new GM.
1) Look at how many games that the team was completely blown out last season. We need more pitching, including some folks who can manage the middle of the game and now give up 10 runs in the process.
2) This team is not ready to compete. The team does not have a lot of assets to trade, but you should really look at moving Marte (best trade asset) and see if anyone will overpay for Bell (I have my doubts). We need more young pitchers and more power. You need to be bold.
3) You need to show that you really care what happens on the field. This team and franchise lost all accountability in the last few years. Folks will accept more rough patches if you demonstrate that there really is some hope for the future.
This.
I just can't help but wonder what these manager candidates are thinking -- and I think we've seen some good possibilities so far. Saying there are internal people who have an opinion that can be relied on is a joke. You're a manager candidate and you want to be talking to your GM to make sure you agree on the strategy that is in place to make sure you get players that can win for you on the field. We have wasted so much precious time.
This latest stuff just boggles my mind. The assumption I made is that Nutting must be a good businessman, I guess because he is rich. But this latest fiasco has me thinking he is more of a sliver spooner than anything because he's hardly proving he can oversee an organization, baseball or anything else.
Huntington Out
Maybe this is dumb, but I am happy that Williams is a fan. I read an article this morning that said he attended the 2013 WC game with his family. He's a Pittsburgh guy who grew up rooting for the Pirates. Hopefully, that means he'll have the heart of a fan in running the team. I don't expect them to lose money, but perhaps he can be an ally of ours in the FO, because, at his core, he is one of us (fans).
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Bobster21
Huntington Out
5F57546375507778160 wrote: Maybe this is dumb, but I am happy that Williams is a fan. I read an article this morning that said he attended the 2013 WC game with his family. He's a Pittsburgh guy who grew up rooting for the Pirates. Hopefully, that means he'll have the heart of a fan in running the team. I don't expect them to lose money, but perhaps he can be an ally of ours in the FO, because, at his core, he is one of us (fans).
I was thinking the same thing. NH, who Nutting said was staying on, was fired as soon as Williams took over even though Williams has no experience with baseball. It looks like he could see just as a fan that NH was not doing a good job.
I was thinking the same thing. NH, who Nutting said was staying on, was fired as soon as Williams took over even though Williams has no experience with baseball. It looks like he could see just as a fan that NH was not doing a good job.
Huntington Out
5D7C696058617A697C6D080 wrote: Frankly, I am surprised, mostly because of the extra cash that Nutting will need to pay out for both the GM and Manager positions. I surely hope that this will not severely limit the quality of the talent that the Bucs can attract to these positions, particularly the GM position. As others noted, resigning both Hurdle and Huntington to unnecessary 4 year contracts was a self-created hardship.
To be honest, I liked a lot of what Huntington did up until the last few years. He was very good an obtaining relievers who became great closers and until the 2016 season, finding starters who were good reclamation projects. And, adding Martin complemented a team that went to the play-offs for the first time in forever.
But, the last few years have been painful and confusing; no direction at the top and even less on the field. It was past time for Hurdle, Searage and NH to go (Can't really offer an opinion on Connelly.
Unfortunately, Nutting is still the owner. They have already lost a month in trying to hire a new GM and that is unfortunate with everything that needs to be done this year. They also have lost a month in hiring a Manager who also needs time to replace most of his coaching staff. Ugghh!
A few words of unsolicited advice to the new GM.
1) Look at how many games that the team was completely blown out last season. We need more pitching, including some folks who can manage the middle of the game and now give up 10 runs in the process.
2) This team is not ready to compete. The team does not have a lot of assets to trade, but you should really look at moving Marte (best trade asset) and see if anyone will overpay for Bell (I have my doubts). We need more young pitchers and more power. You need to be bold.
3) You need to show that you really care what happens on the field. This team and franchise lost all accountability in the last few years. Folks will accept more rough patches if you demonstrate that there really is some hope for the future.
This.
I just can't help but wonder what these manager candidates are thinking -- and I think we've seen some good possibilities so far. Saying there are internal people who have an opinion that can be relied on is a joke. You're a manager candidate and you want to be talking to your GM to make sure you agree on the strategy that is in place to make sure you get players that can win for you on the field. We have wasted so much precious time.
This latest stuff just boggles my mind. The assumption I made is that Nutting must be a good businessman, I guess because he is rich. But this latest fiasco has me thinking he is more of a sliver spooner than anything because he's hardly proving he can oversee an organization, baseball or anything else.
I didn't love everything Nutting said yesterday. However, I actually accepted his explanation of the process, even though it looked stupid.
In August he consulted with outside sources and realized people needed fired. He probably realized quickly that CH needed to go. It isn't Nutting's fault that Hurdle declared that he was safe and staying around for next year. People go rogue sometimes. He also said that at the time he gave that press release, he wasn't convinced that NH needed to go. As he did more analysis, he was later convinced that NH needed to go. He didn't want to fire NH until Williams was in place. Nutting actually took pretty convincing responsibility for firing NH and quickly said that he had a ton or respect and admiration for what NH did for him and the Pirates.
I don't know, this process was a mess, but his explanation made some sense.
As for the manager candidates, there are only 30 spots in the world. Nutting said that he appreciated the evaluative work that NH and the other FO people did in doing those interviews. If I were in charge, I'd say the same thing.
Regarding Nutting, I would challenge a person to watch the longer (30 minute) interview on PP's website and give convincing reasons why Nutting is not a wise person or good businessman. I thought he presented himself and the vision he has for the Pirates extremely well. He is thoughtful, articulate, and clearly loves the Pirates. I still have questions, but he's not a idiot.
To be honest, I liked a lot of what Huntington did up until the last few years. He was very good an obtaining relievers who became great closers and until the 2016 season, finding starters who were good reclamation projects. And, adding Martin complemented a team that went to the play-offs for the first time in forever.
But, the last few years have been painful and confusing; no direction at the top and even less on the field. It was past time for Hurdle, Searage and NH to go (Can't really offer an opinion on Connelly.
Unfortunately, Nutting is still the owner. They have already lost a month in trying to hire a new GM and that is unfortunate with everything that needs to be done this year. They also have lost a month in hiring a Manager who also needs time to replace most of his coaching staff. Ugghh!
A few words of unsolicited advice to the new GM.
1) Look at how many games that the team was completely blown out last season. We need more pitching, including some folks who can manage the middle of the game and now give up 10 runs in the process.
2) This team is not ready to compete. The team does not have a lot of assets to trade, but you should really look at moving Marte (best trade asset) and see if anyone will overpay for Bell (I have my doubts). We need more young pitchers and more power. You need to be bold.
3) You need to show that you really care what happens on the field. This team and franchise lost all accountability in the last few years. Folks will accept more rough patches if you demonstrate that there really is some hope for the future.
This.
I just can't help but wonder what these manager candidates are thinking -- and I think we've seen some good possibilities so far. Saying there are internal people who have an opinion that can be relied on is a joke. You're a manager candidate and you want to be talking to your GM to make sure you agree on the strategy that is in place to make sure you get players that can win for you on the field. We have wasted so much precious time.
This latest stuff just boggles my mind. The assumption I made is that Nutting must be a good businessman, I guess because he is rich. But this latest fiasco has me thinking he is more of a sliver spooner than anything because he's hardly proving he can oversee an organization, baseball or anything else.
I didn't love everything Nutting said yesterday. However, I actually accepted his explanation of the process, even though it looked stupid.
In August he consulted with outside sources and realized people needed fired. He probably realized quickly that CH needed to go. It isn't Nutting's fault that Hurdle declared that he was safe and staying around for next year. People go rogue sometimes. He also said that at the time he gave that press release, he wasn't convinced that NH needed to go. As he did more analysis, he was later convinced that NH needed to go. He didn't want to fire NH until Williams was in place. Nutting actually took pretty convincing responsibility for firing NH and quickly said that he had a ton or respect and admiration for what NH did for him and the Pirates.
I don't know, this process was a mess, but his explanation made some sense.
As for the manager candidates, there are only 30 spots in the world. Nutting said that he appreciated the evaluative work that NH and the other FO people did in doing those interviews. If I were in charge, I'd say the same thing.
Regarding Nutting, I would challenge a person to watch the longer (30 minute) interview on PP's website and give convincing reasons why Nutting is not a wise person or good businessman. I thought he presented himself and the vision he has for the Pirates extremely well. He is thoughtful, articulate, and clearly loves the Pirates. I still have questions, but he's not a idiot.