Ben Cherington say . . .
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Ben Cherington say . . .
If I were in charge, I would totally do away with the thinking that it is some how a good thing to trade away your good players for untested prospects/suspects. Instead, I would go out and sign FA up to the limit of my payroll constraints and win as many games as possible this year. I would worry about next year at the end of this year instead of playing for a future that never gets to Pittsburgh.
Ben Cherington say . . .
7A6743414F2A0 wrote: Maybe I am nieve, but I don’t think they need a rebuild. There is a foundation in place with the following players: Reynolds, Newman, Tucker, Hayes, Musgrove, Keller, Williams, Kuhl, Bell, and possibly Polanco. Sure they need to add players, but there are some players like Cruz in the pipeline. I expect some trades between now and July 31. Guys like Kela, Frazier, and possibly Archer will be moved for pieces of the puzzle. Remember when Syd Thrift was our GM he traded guys like Rich Rhoden and Tony Pena for players who made large contributions to the early 1990’s teams. I have faith in Ben Cherington that he can add players to the foundation that is currently in place.
The problem is, out of those players you named, Bell is the only All Star in that group. And the pitch is a real mess, even if they over perform. In general, it is a group of nice, solid major leaguers. In some cases, there are + skills (like Hayes' defense, Reynolds contact skill, etc). But other than Bell, there are no impact players in that group. I don't think you can win playoff series without impact players, especially pitchers. There are no pitchers in that group that will win a WC game against anyone else, let along 3 guys that will carry you through a division series. Running out Musgrove, Williams, and Archer against Soroka, Foltynewicz, and Hamels... or Scherzer, Strasburg, and Corbin...or Beuhler, Kershaw, Maeda...or any other playoff worthy team.
I just don't think they are as close as some here suggest.
I think the Pirates are as far away as can be. I look at this team, and the entirety of the organization, and I literally see a team that is worse off than most expansion franchises. All of the guys you mentioned are decent supporting cast/role players on a contending team. Even Bell, I'm not convinced anyway, is a difference maker. He's got some nice pop, but beyond that, does he bring anything to the table? Championship teams are built around MVP caliber players. The Pirates don't have one, and they don't have anyone in the pipeline who, at least at the present time, profiles as one either. I really believe, that, best case scenario, the Pirates are at least four years away, likely five. That's why I think they should look to trade Bell for sure, and probably even Newman and Reynolds.
I agree. If I were in charge, I'd trade Bell, Frazier and Musgrove now. I'd hope that this season can rebuild some value in Williams and Archer and trade them also. I'd probably over pay some FAs on one year deals with the intent to trade them for prospects at the deadline. Particularly relief pitchers because everyone always needs them and overpays for them at the deadline. You can only win playoff series with top level pitching. The Pirates may have that in their pipeline (especially after reading the P2 article today on sub-20 year old pitchers). But that is 3-4 years off at least.
To me the Marte deal says that BC thinks they are that far away too. Otherwise, get someone who can contribute sooner.
The problem is, out of those players you named, Bell is the only All Star in that group. And the pitch is a real mess, even if they over perform. In general, it is a group of nice, solid major leaguers. In some cases, there are + skills (like Hayes' defense, Reynolds contact skill, etc). But other than Bell, there are no impact players in that group. I don't think you can win playoff series without impact players, especially pitchers. There are no pitchers in that group that will win a WC game against anyone else, let along 3 guys that will carry you through a division series. Running out Musgrove, Williams, and Archer against Soroka, Foltynewicz, and Hamels... or Scherzer, Strasburg, and Corbin...or Beuhler, Kershaw, Maeda...or any other playoff worthy team.
I just don't think they are as close as some here suggest.
I think the Pirates are as far away as can be. I look at this team, and the entirety of the organization, and I literally see a team that is worse off than most expansion franchises. All of the guys you mentioned are decent supporting cast/role players on a contending team. Even Bell, I'm not convinced anyway, is a difference maker. He's got some nice pop, but beyond that, does he bring anything to the table? Championship teams are built around MVP caliber players. The Pirates don't have one, and they don't have anyone in the pipeline who, at least at the present time, profiles as one either. I really believe, that, best case scenario, the Pirates are at least four years away, likely five. That's why I think they should look to trade Bell for sure, and probably even Newman and Reynolds.
I agree. If I were in charge, I'd trade Bell, Frazier and Musgrove now. I'd hope that this season can rebuild some value in Williams and Archer and trade them also. I'd probably over pay some FAs on one year deals with the intent to trade them for prospects at the deadline. Particularly relief pitchers because everyone always needs them and overpays for them at the deadline. You can only win playoff series with top level pitching. The Pirates may have that in their pipeline (especially after reading the P2 article today on sub-20 year old pitchers). But that is 3-4 years off at least.
To me the Marte deal says that BC thinks they are that far away too. Otherwise, get someone who can contribute sooner.
Ben Cherington say . . .
78636E6F666A650B0 wrote: If I were in charge, I would totally do away with the thinking that it is some how a good thing to trade away your good players for untested prospects/suspects. Instead, I would go out and sign FA up to the limit of my payroll constraints and win as many games as possible this year. I would worry about next year at the end of this year instead of playing for a future that never gets to Pittsburgh.
You and I have already bantered back and forth a couple times. Just want to say I appreciate that and your perspectives.
To your post, I'd be in favor of doing what you say if I thought we had the payroll room to do it. Even if they jumped payroll to $100 million with (Marte still on the team), I don't think they could have put together a playoff team. Nutting will never allow a payroll big enough to do as you suggest. Competing via free agency can never work here with a pay roll that tops out at $100-110 million.
You and I have already bantered back and forth a couple times. Just want to say I appreciate that and your perspectives.
To your post, I'd be in favor of doing what you say if I thought we had the payroll room to do it. Even if they jumped payroll to $100 million with (Marte still on the team), I don't think they could have put together a playoff team. Nutting will never allow a payroll big enough to do as you suggest. Competing via free agency can never work here with a pay roll that tops out at $100-110 million.
Ben Cherington say . . .
011C383A34510 wrote: If I were in charge, I would totally do away with the thinking that it is some how a good thing to trade away your good players for untested prospects/suspects. Instead, I would go out and sign FA up to the limit of my payroll constraints and win as many games as possible this year. I would worry about next year at the end of this year instead of playing for a future that never gets to Pittsburgh.
You and I have already bantered back and forth a couple times. Just want to say I appreciate that and your perspectives.
To your post, I'd be in favor of doing what you say if I thought we had the payroll room to do it. Even if they jumped payroll to $100 million with (Marte still on the team), I don't think they could have put together a playoff team. Nutting will never allow a payroll big enough to do as you suggest. Competing via free agency can never work here with a pay roll that tops out at $100-110 million.
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I think you are right about not being able to put together a playoff team, But, if they spend up to whatever limit Nutting puts on them every year. the year that the moon, stars, and planets all align, then they might just win a Division Championship. As it is now, we will be sold on a future that never gets here in Pittsburgh.
You and I have already bantered back and forth a couple times. Just want to say I appreciate that and your perspectives.
To your post, I'd be in favor of doing what you say if I thought we had the payroll room to do it. Even if they jumped payroll to $100 million with (Marte still on the team), I don't think they could have put together a playoff team. Nutting will never allow a payroll big enough to do as you suggest. Competing via free agency can never work here with a pay roll that tops out at $100-110 million.
---
I think you are right about not being able to put together a playoff team, But, if they spend up to whatever limit Nutting puts on them every year. the year that the moon, stars, and planets all align, then they might just win a Division Championship. As it is now, we will be sold on a future that never gets here in Pittsburgh.
Ben Cherington say . . .
Has anyone noticed how quiet Shelton has been through all of this or have I missed him expressing an opinion about how things are going.
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2drfischer@gmail.c
Ben Cherington say . . .
5A414C4D444847290 wrote: If I were in charge, I would totally do away with the thinking that it is some how a good thing to trade away your good players for untested prospects/suspects. Instead, I would go out and sign FA up to the limit of my payroll constraints and win as many games as possible this year. I would worry about next year at the end of this year instead of playing for a future that never gets to Pittsburgh.
You and I have already bantered back and forth a couple times. Just want to say I appreciate that and your perspectives.
To your post, I'd be in favor of doing what you say if I thought we had the payroll room to do it. Even if they jumped payroll to $100 million with (Marte still on the team), I don't think they could have put together a playoff team. Nutting will never allow a payroll big enough to do as you suggest. Competing via free agency can never work here with a pay roll that tops out at $100-110 million.
---
I think you are right about not being able to put together a playoff team, But, if they spend up to whatever limit Nutting puts on them every year. the year that the moon, stars, and planets all align, then they might just win a Division Championship. As it is now, we will be sold on a future that never gets here in Pittsburgh.
Nutting has proven in the past, with good teams and bad, that he'll always have a payroll well under the league average. He has no intent on paying laborers money he doesn't believe they deserve. He'll pay near the minimum amount that will keep him out of trouble with the other owners and the Union.
Until, and only until, MLB decides to require all of the franchises to have nearly identical payrolls, our lives as Pirates fans will continue as they have since he became the owner, no matter who he hires as the president, the GM, and the manager, unless a miracle occurs.
You and I have already bantered back and forth a couple times. Just want to say I appreciate that and your perspectives.
To your post, I'd be in favor of doing what you say if I thought we had the payroll room to do it. Even if they jumped payroll to $100 million with (Marte still on the team), I don't think they could have put together a playoff team. Nutting will never allow a payroll big enough to do as you suggest. Competing via free agency can never work here with a pay roll that tops out at $100-110 million.
---
I think you are right about not being able to put together a playoff team, But, if they spend up to whatever limit Nutting puts on them every year. the year that the moon, stars, and planets all align, then they might just win a Division Championship. As it is now, we will be sold on a future that never gets here in Pittsburgh.
Nutting has proven in the past, with good teams and bad, that he'll always have a payroll well under the league average. He has no intent on paying laborers money he doesn't believe they deserve. He'll pay near the minimum amount that will keep him out of trouble with the other owners and the Union.
Until, and only until, MLB decides to require all of the franchises to have nearly identical payrolls, our lives as Pirates fans will continue as they have since he became the owner, no matter who he hires as the president, the GM, and the manager, unless a miracle occurs.
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fjk090852-7
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Ben Cherington say . . .
6335233738223239342311363C30383D7F32510 wrote: If I were in charge, I would totally do away with the thinking that it is some how a good thing to trade away your good players for untested prospects/suspects. Instead, I would go out and sign FA up to the limit of my payroll constraints and win as many games as possible this year. I would worry about next year at the end of this year instead of playing for a future that never gets to Pittsburgh.
You and I have already bantered back and forth a couple times. Just want to say I appreciate that and your perspectives.
To your post, I'd be in favor of doing what you say if I thought we had the payroll room to do it. Even if they jumped payroll to $100 million with (Marte still on the team), I don't think they could have put together a playoff team. Nutting will never allow a payroll big enough to do as you suggest. Competing via free agency can never work here with a pay roll that tops out at $100-110 million.
---
I think you are right about not being able to put together a playoff team, But, if they spend up to whatever limit Nutting puts on them every year. the year that the moon, stars, and planets all align, then they might just win a Division Championship. As it is now, we will be sold on a future that never gets here in Pittsburgh.
Nutting has proven in the past, with good teams and bad, that he'll always have a payroll well under the league average. He has no intent on paying laborers money he doesn't believe they deserve. He'll pay near the minimum amount that will keep him out of trouble with the other owners and the Union.
Until, and only until, MLB decides to require all of the franchises to have nearly identical payrolls, our lives as Pirates fans will continue as they have since he became the owner, no matter who he hires as the president, the GM, and the manager, unless a miracle occurs.
That is the reason why I believe the Players Union will pursue a salary floor or team average payroll in the upcoming bargaining agreement. The Union is not happy with teams getting money from sources of revenue, and only having a very small team payroll.
You and I have already bantered back and forth a couple times. Just want to say I appreciate that and your perspectives.
To your post, I'd be in favor of doing what you say if I thought we had the payroll room to do it. Even if they jumped payroll to $100 million with (Marte still on the team), I don't think they could have put together a playoff team. Nutting will never allow a payroll big enough to do as you suggest. Competing via free agency can never work here with a pay roll that tops out at $100-110 million.
---
I think you are right about not being able to put together a playoff team, But, if they spend up to whatever limit Nutting puts on them every year. the year that the moon, stars, and planets all align, then they might just win a Division Championship. As it is now, we will be sold on a future that never gets here in Pittsburgh.
Nutting has proven in the past, with good teams and bad, that he'll always have a payroll well under the league average. He has no intent on paying laborers money he doesn't believe they deserve. He'll pay near the minimum amount that will keep him out of trouble with the other owners and the Union.
Until, and only until, MLB decides to require all of the franchises to have nearly identical payrolls, our lives as Pirates fans will continue as they have since he became the owner, no matter who he hires as the president, the GM, and the manager, unless a miracle occurs.
That is the reason why I believe the Players Union will pursue a salary floor or team average payroll in the upcoming bargaining agreement. The Union is not happy with teams getting money from sources of revenue, and only having a very small team payroll.
Ben Cherington say . . .
Nobody likes freeloaders. Nutting is a loser. A freeloader. Taking public ?. Taking Yankees and redsox ?, taking MLB BAM money.
Making hundreds of millions in gains off socialism, and not extending himself to try to win.
Nutting is a billionare welfare recipient. Stop corporate welfare Throw this stooge and his team out of town.
Making hundreds of millions in gains off socialism, and not extending himself to try to win.
Nutting is a billionare welfare recipient. Stop corporate welfare Throw this stooge and his team out of town.
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DemDog
Ben Cherington say . . .
424B43525C260 wrote: Nobody likes freeloaders. Nutting is a loser. A freeloader. Taking public ?. Taking Yankees and redsox ?, taking MLB BAM money.
Making hundreds of millions in gains off socialism, and not extending himself to try to win.
Nutting is a billionare welfare recipient. Stop corporate welfare Throw this stooge and his team out of town.
In other words "Drain the Swamp along the Allegheny River" ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Making hundreds of millions in gains off socialism, and not extending himself to try to win.
Nutting is a billionare welfare recipient. Stop corporate welfare Throw this stooge and his team out of town.
In other words "Drain the Swamp along the Allegheny River" ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Ben Cherington say . . .
6E676F7E700A0 wrote: Nobody likes freeloaders. Nutting is a loser. A freeloader. Taking public ?. Taking Yankees and redsox ?, taking MLB BAM money.
Making hundreds of millions in gains off socialism, and not extending himself to try to win.
Nutting is a billionare welfare recipient. Stop corporate welfare Throw this stooge and his team out of town.
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hear hear
Making hundreds of millions in gains off socialism, and not extending himself to try to win.
Nutting is a billionare welfare recipient. Stop corporate welfare Throw this stooge and his team out of town.
---
hear hear