Archer still doesn't get it. Per the Trib:
“I made some big pitches when I needed to,” he said.
But he also acknowledged his mistakes.
“Biggest mistake, probably two of them, I shook (catcher Jacob) Stallings, threw a different pitch and both pitches were home runs.
“But overall my stuff was great. I felt good. We walked away and it was a tie score. Right now, that’s all I’m trying to give the team.”
https://triblive.com/sports/pirates-ral ... -cubs-6-5/
He sounds quite satisfied with yet another in a seemingly endless series of less than stellar starts as he consistently maintains his mid-5 ERA. It was the 10th time in 15 starts he failed to go more than 5 innings. He shook off Stallings on 2 HRs. He mentions his "big pitches" when he needed them. I guess he didn't need them when he gave up 3 runs in his 5 innings on 95 pitches including giving the run right back after his team had taken a 3-2 lead. He thinks his stuff was great. He felt good. He was quite satisfied because he only gave up as many runs as his team scored. That’s all he's trying to give the team.
He gives me the impression that he has no tenacity on the mound. He has good stuff and he's very impressed with himself. That's good enough for him regardless of the results. He's just out there to pitch 5 innings as if it's not even a competition against the other team. He's ok with bad results as long as he can point out his good stuff. Great pitchers are doggedly determined to beat you. Archer doesn't seem to be into that line of thinking. He just goes to work every 5 days, throws his pitches for 5 innings and gets to sit in the dugout and watch a baseball game, hopefully without giving up so many runs in the process that his team is behind. As he admitted, that's all he's trying to do. Wow.
Archer
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
-
SteadyFreddy
Archer
Yea I’m over Archer as I mentioned last night and have simply seen enough of him. He has no mental toughness what so ever and never seems able to pitch out of big jams consistently when he pitches. His body language out on the mound is terrible to watch as well every time he gives up a home run or a big base hit. Archer might be a good guy off the field he seems like it, but when it come to his pitching and discussing how he pitches after every game he starts he is very arrogant and like you said Bobster he seems to be in denial and just doesn’t get it. It’s getting tiresome to listen too and tiresome to watch him pitch and do the same things essentially every start he makes. This deal continues to be worse and worse for Meadows and Glasnow and should have never been made.
Archer
7A5D4C484D506F5B4C4D4D50290 wrote: Yea I’m over Archer as I mentioned last night and have simply seen enough of him. He has no mental toughness what so ever and never seems able to pitch out of big jams consistently when he pitches. His body language out on the mound is terrible to watch as well every time he gives up a home run or a big base hit. Archer might be a good guy off the field he seems like it, but when it come to his pitching and discussing how he pitches after every game he starts he is very arrogant and like you said Bobster he seems to be in denial and just doesn’t get it. It’s getting tiresome to listen too and tiresome to watch him pitch and do the same things essentially every start he makes. This deal continues to be worse and worse for Meadows and Glasnow and should have never been made.
No mental toughness and can't pitch out of jams... Did you watch the game last night? He got out of 2 or 3 tough jams.
I don't love his demonstrative body language in game. I tell my 10 year old not to model him in that way. But geez, he seems like a great guy in interviews or discussing what just happened. I have never experienced him has arrogant or in denial. He is always very present and genuine with the media in his interviews. He comes across as an optimist who is looking for the positives to take away from what just happened. I would argue that having optimistic people in your business is vital to a successful business.
If you watched him pitch last night and removed results, you can see he's got some great stuff and threw some pitches that most guys on the pitching staff simply don't have. His slider off the plate to right handers, when he located it, was unhittable. His problem is that he misses, esp. with the fastball in the middle of the zone too often. That seems like a thing he can work on an fix.
I understand the angst because the other side of his trade has been great and some expected a 2.50 pitcher with well over a SO/9IP. He is certainly underperforming, but there is no reason to cut bait with him.
No mental toughness and can't pitch out of jams... Did you watch the game last night? He got out of 2 or 3 tough jams.
I don't love his demonstrative body language in game. I tell my 10 year old not to model him in that way. But geez, he seems like a great guy in interviews or discussing what just happened. I have never experienced him has arrogant or in denial. He is always very present and genuine with the media in his interviews. He comes across as an optimist who is looking for the positives to take away from what just happened. I would argue that having optimistic people in your business is vital to a successful business.
If you watched him pitch last night and removed results, you can see he's got some great stuff and threw some pitches that most guys on the pitching staff simply don't have. His slider off the plate to right handers, when he located it, was unhittable. His problem is that he misses, esp. with the fastball in the middle of the zone too often. That seems like a thing he can work on an fix.
I understand the angst because the other side of his trade has been great and some expected a 2.50 pitcher with well over a SO/9IP. He is certainly underperforming, but there is no reason to cut bait with him.
Archer
6D705456583D0 wrote: Yea I’m over Archer as I mentioned last night and have simply seen enough of him. He has no mental toughness what so ever and never seems able to pitch out of big jams consistently when he pitches. His body language out on the mound is terrible to watch as well every time he gives up a home run or a big base hit. Archer might be a good guy off the field he seems like it, but when it come to his pitching and discussing how he pitches after every game he starts he is very arrogant and like you said Bobster he seems to be in denial and just doesn’t get it. It’s getting tiresome to listen too and tiresome to watch him pitch and do the same things essentially every start he makes. This deal continues to be worse and worse for Meadows and Glasnow and should have never been made.
No mental toughness and can't pitch out of jams... Did you watch the game last night? He got out of 2 or 3 tough jams.
I don't love his demonstrative body language in game. I tell my 10 year old not to model him in that way. But geez, he seems like a great guy in interviews or discussing what just happened. I have never experienced him has arrogant or in denial. He is always very present and genuine with the media in his interviews. He comes across as an optimist who is looking for the positives to take away from what just happened. I would argue that having optimistic people in your business is vital to a successful business.
If you watched him pitch last night and removed results, you can see he's got some great stuff and threw some pitches that most guys on the pitching staff simply don't have. His slider off the plate to right handers, when he located it, was unhittable. His problem is that he misses, esp. with the fastball in the middle of the zone too often. That seems like a thing he can work on an fix.
I understand the angst because the other side of his trade has been great and some expected a 2.50 pitcher with well over a SO/9IP. He is certainly underperforming, but there is no reason to cut bait with him.
yeah, I agree with this. He is frustrating to watch and he may never put it all together and have a very good season or two. But then that was the case with Happ before he came to the Bucs. Happ was 32 when he was acquired by the Bucs.
His contract is low enough that he should continue to pitch as a starter. He needs a good stretch to show he can do it (and somehow keep the ball in the park for a few innings). Just lower expectations to fifth starter level because that is what he has been for the Bucs.
Bucs Dugout has a slightly different quote:
The overall stat line wasn’t the most ideal,” said Archer. “Obviously I wanted to pitch a little bit deeper. The main focus right now is helping the team win the game, and we walked away and it was tied after I came out. I made some big pitches when I needed to.”
No mental toughness and can't pitch out of jams... Did you watch the game last night? He got out of 2 or 3 tough jams.
I don't love his demonstrative body language in game. I tell my 10 year old not to model him in that way. But geez, he seems like a great guy in interviews or discussing what just happened. I have never experienced him has arrogant or in denial. He is always very present and genuine with the media in his interviews. He comes across as an optimist who is looking for the positives to take away from what just happened. I would argue that having optimistic people in your business is vital to a successful business.
If you watched him pitch last night and removed results, you can see he's got some great stuff and threw some pitches that most guys on the pitching staff simply don't have. His slider off the plate to right handers, when he located it, was unhittable. His problem is that he misses, esp. with the fastball in the middle of the zone too often. That seems like a thing he can work on an fix.
I understand the angst because the other side of his trade has been great and some expected a 2.50 pitcher with well over a SO/9IP. He is certainly underperforming, but there is no reason to cut bait with him.
yeah, I agree with this. He is frustrating to watch and he may never put it all together and have a very good season or two. But then that was the case with Happ before he came to the Bucs. Happ was 32 when he was acquired by the Bucs.
His contract is low enough that he should continue to pitch as a starter. He needs a good stretch to show he can do it (and somehow keep the ball in the park for a few innings). Just lower expectations to fifth starter level because that is what he has been for the Bucs.
Bucs Dugout has a slightly different quote:
The overall stat line wasn’t the most ideal,” said Archer. “Obviously I wanted to pitch a little bit deeper. The main focus right now is helping the team win the game, and we walked away and it was tied after I came out. I made some big pitches when I needed to.”
-
rucker59@gmail.com
Archer
Im rooting for Chris. I think he’s a good guy. But from a baseball perspective he is indeed showing some really impressive stuff. The last thing the Pirates need to do is give up on him.
Archer is showing signs of figuring things out. last night was a positive step in his journey. He’s not “there” yet, but he’s progressing. I feel sure that is what he’s referring to in the above quotes.
Archer is showing signs of figuring things out. last night was a positive step in his journey. He’s not “there” yet, but he’s progressing. I feel sure that is what he’s referring to in the above quotes.
-
Bobster21
Archer
I have a real problem with this quote: "We walked away and it was a tie score. Right now, that’s all I’m trying to give the team.” That all he's trying to do? He's happy just to give up no more runs than his team scored? That sure doesn't sound like a pitcher who takes the mound determined to beat the other team. There's no question that he has great stuff. But that seems to be all he cares about. He talks about his great stuff while saying all he's trying to do is keep the game close. Maybe he needs to develop a killer instinct on the mound to put his great stuff to better use instead of being satisfied just to go 5 innings or less in 10 of his 15 starts while consistently maintaining a mid-5 ERA and giving up 3 runs and leaving in a tie game. Sure, he's a nice guy but that attitude on the mound leaves a lot to be desired.
Archer
674A47565140571714250 wrote: I have a real problem with this quote: "We walked away and it was a tie score. Right now, that’s all I’m trying to give the team.” That all he's trying to do? He's happy just to give up no more runs than his team scored? That sure doesn't sound like a pitcher who takes the mound determined to beat the other team. There's no question that he has great stuff. But that seems to be all he cares about. He talks about his great stuff while saying all he's trying to do is keep the game close. Maybe he needs to develop a killer instinct on the mound to put his great stuff to better use instead of being satisfied just to go 5 innings or less in 10 of his 15 starts while consistently maintaining a mid-5 ERA and giving up 3 runs and leaving in a tie game. Sure, he's a nice guy but that attitude on the mound leaves a lot to be desired.
the quote I found had that he wanted to help the team win.
the quote I found had that he wanted to help the team win.
-
Bobster21
Archer
674140574151220 wrote: I have a real problem with this quote: "We walked away and it was a tie score. Right now, that’s all I’m trying to give the team.” That all he's trying to do? He's happy just to give up no more runs than his team scored? That sure doesn't sound like a pitcher who takes the mound determined to beat the other team. There's no question that he has great stuff. But that seems to be all he cares about. He talks about his great stuff while saying all he's trying to do is keep the game close. Maybe he needs to develop a killer instinct on the mound to put his great stuff to better use instead of being satisfied just to go 5 innings or less in 10 of his 15 starts while consistently maintaining a mid-5 ERA and giving up 3 runs and leaving in a tie game. Sure, he's a nice guy but that attitude on the mound leaves a lot to be desired.
the quote I found had that he wanted to help the team win.
The Trib quoted that part too. I provided the link. But the Bucs Dugout did not include the part about "that's all he wanted to do." He never said he didn't want to win. Obviously he hopes they win the game. But he seems very content just to keep it close and hope the team comes through in the end. That seems to be his idea of helping the team. And considering he's pretty consistently a 5 inning (or less) pitcher who averages a little over 3 runs for every 5 innings he pitches, he's asking a lot from his teammates. A pitcher with a mid-5 ERA is usually not considered a big help to his team. But Archer is consistently in that area and talks about his great stuff and how it was still tied when he left. I want more than that from a starting pitcher, especially one who's supposed to have some pedigree. Archer has the stuff, there's no doubt about that. Charlie Morton did too. But he never put it all together with the Bucs. I want Archer to become a force in the rotation. Not just someone who can go 5 innings and keep it close as long as his batters keep up with the other team's scoring.
the quote I found had that he wanted to help the team win.
The Trib quoted that part too. I provided the link. But the Bucs Dugout did not include the part about "that's all he wanted to do." He never said he didn't want to win. Obviously he hopes they win the game. But he seems very content just to keep it close and hope the team comes through in the end. That seems to be his idea of helping the team. And considering he's pretty consistently a 5 inning (or less) pitcher who averages a little over 3 runs for every 5 innings he pitches, he's asking a lot from his teammates. A pitcher with a mid-5 ERA is usually not considered a big help to his team. But Archer is consistently in that area and talks about his great stuff and how it was still tied when he left. I want more than that from a starting pitcher, especially one who's supposed to have some pedigree. Archer has the stuff, there's no doubt about that. Charlie Morton did too. But he never put it all together with the Bucs. I want Archer to become a force in the rotation. Not just someone who can go 5 innings and keep it close as long as his batters keep up with the other team's scoring.
-
SteadyFreddy
Archer
465B7F7D73160 wrote: Yea I’m over Archer as I mentioned last night and have simply seen enough of him. He has no mental toughness what so ever and never seems able to pitch out of big jams consistently when he pitches. His body language out on the mound is terrible to watch as well every time he gives up a home run or a big base hit. Archer might be a good guy off the field he seems like it, but when it come to his pitching and discussing how he pitches after every game he starts he is very arrogant and like you said Bobster he seems to be in denial and just doesn’t get it. It’s getting tiresome to listen too and tiresome to watch him pitch and do the same things essentially every start he makes. This deal continues to be worse and worse for Meadows and Glasnow and should have never been made.
No mental toughness and can't pitch out of jams... Did you watch the game last night? He got out of 2 or 3 tough jams.
I don't love his demonstrative body language in game. I tell my 10 year old not to model him in that way. But geez, he seems like a great guy in interviews or discussing what just happened. I have never experienced him has arrogant or in denial. He is always very present and genuine with the media in his interviews. He comes across as an optimist who is looking for the positives to take away from what just happened. I would argue that having optimistic people in your business is vital to a successful business.
If you watched him pitch last night and removed results, you can see he's got some great stuff and threw some pitches that most guys on the pitching staff simply don't have. His slider off the plate to right handers, when he located it, was unhittable. His problem is that he misses, esp. with the fastball in the middle of the zone too often. That seems like a thing he can work on an fix.
I understand the angst because the other side of his trade has been great and some expected a 2.50 pitcher with well over a SO/9IP. He is certainly underperforming, but there is no reason to cut bait with him. Well he has started 15 games so far this season and has failed to go more then 5 innings in 10 of them which is simply not good enough for a guy who is supposed to be a 1 or 2 in your rotation . If Taillon was healthy now you could make the argument that he would have no business being one of the 5 guys in the starting rotation. His numbers flat out stink there is no way around it. He might have gotten out of a few jams last night but more times then not this year he has been god awful at not letting innings and games get out of hand. Archer is a good guy overall and I have no problem with him personally I just don’t think he is a very good pitcher and I would not trust him what so ever pitching in a big big game that the Pirates had to win. He is too erratic and he would not get the job done. I don’t think it’s time to cut bait completely with Archer but he better start showing major signs of improvement and win a lot of games in the 2nd half of the season or the Pirates definitely need to consider moving on from him at that point. Archer has to be better period and if he isn’t a lot better in the 2nd half the Pirates need to strongly consider not bringing him back for 2020.
No mental toughness and can't pitch out of jams... Did you watch the game last night? He got out of 2 or 3 tough jams.
I don't love his demonstrative body language in game. I tell my 10 year old not to model him in that way. But geez, he seems like a great guy in interviews or discussing what just happened. I have never experienced him has arrogant or in denial. He is always very present and genuine with the media in his interviews. He comes across as an optimist who is looking for the positives to take away from what just happened. I would argue that having optimistic people in your business is vital to a successful business.
If you watched him pitch last night and removed results, you can see he's got some great stuff and threw some pitches that most guys on the pitching staff simply don't have. His slider off the plate to right handers, when he located it, was unhittable. His problem is that he misses, esp. with the fastball in the middle of the zone too often. That seems like a thing he can work on an fix.
I understand the angst because the other side of his trade has been great and some expected a 2.50 pitcher with well over a SO/9IP. He is certainly underperforming, but there is no reason to cut bait with him. Well he has started 15 games so far this season and has failed to go more then 5 innings in 10 of them which is simply not good enough for a guy who is supposed to be a 1 or 2 in your rotation . If Taillon was healthy now you could make the argument that he would have no business being one of the 5 guys in the starting rotation. His numbers flat out stink there is no way around it. He might have gotten out of a few jams last night but more times then not this year he has been god awful at not letting innings and games get out of hand. Archer is a good guy overall and I have no problem with him personally I just don’t think he is a very good pitcher and I would not trust him what so ever pitching in a big big game that the Pirates had to win. He is too erratic and he would not get the job done. I don’t think it’s time to cut bait completely with Archer but he better start showing major signs of improvement and win a lot of games in the 2nd half of the season or the Pirates definitely need to consider moving on from him at that point. Archer has to be better period and if he isn’t a lot better in the 2nd half the Pirates need to strongly consider not bringing him back for 2020.