Just saw that over 53 percent of the current free agents remain unsigned with spring training about to begin in 2 weeks. Veteran players like Neil Walker just signed today for 2 million dollars. Many players who are not elite, appear to be signing one year agreements for smaller salaries, or have even signed minor league contracts with invitations to ST. The Basic Agreement with the Players Union expires after the 2021 season. After witnessing these past two offseasons the players are going to take a very hard look at how teams are spending their revenue. Who knows if a salary floor was agreed upon possibly Bob Nutting may decide to put the team up for sale.
Free Agency
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
Free Agency
6965643F363F373A3D22380F0 wrote: Just saw that over 53 percent of the current free agents remain unsigned with spring training about to begin in 2 weeks. Veteran players like Neil Walker just signed today for 2 million dollars. Many players who are not elite, appear to be signing one year agreements for smaller salaries, or have even signed minor league contracts with invitations to ST. The Basic Agreement with the Players Union expires after the 2021 season. After witnessing these past two offseasons the players are going to take a very hard look at how teams are spending their revenue. Who knows if a salary floor was agreed upon possibly Bob Nutting may decide to put the team up for sale.
I think you are right in that next negotiations are going to try and cover issues about share of revenue to players. I don't know how they will do that.
a question about 53% of unsigned players. It seems to me that a lot of free agents are not going to be demand because they are at the end of their careers. People like Jose Bautista, Bartolo Colon, Doug Fister.
So I don't know if percentage of unsigned players is a good indicator.
I think you are right in that next negotiations are going to try and cover issues about share of revenue to players. I don't know how they will do that.
a question about 53% of unsigned players. It seems to me that a lot of free agents are not going to be demand because they are at the end of their careers. People like Jose Bautista, Bartolo Colon, Doug Fister.
So I don't know if percentage of unsigned players is a good indicator.
Free Agency
I think the last two years are an indication that the owners have realized there isn’t any sense in signing an aging vet and paying him for what he did three years ago rather than paying the young arb eligible player a fraction of the salary for 90% of the production (at least). In other words, the age of grossly overpaid FAs is over. Hopefully, this will lead to a salary cap/floor in the next CBA. However, my fear is that it will lead to more super teams, I.e. the Red Sox. Tons of young talent, and the resources to add to it if need-be.
The days of the Yankees trying to buy the WS might be over. It used to be what separates the haves from the have nots was the ability to go out and sign all the good FAs. Now, what seems to separate them is the haves ability to augment. Or, in the Pirates case, the have nots refusal to do so.
The days of the Yankees trying to buy the WS might be over. It used to be what separates the haves from the have nots was the ability to go out and sign all the good FAs. Now, what seems to separate them is the haves ability to augment. Or, in the Pirates case, the have nots refusal to do so.
-
Bobster21
Free Agency
755352455343300 wrote: Just saw that over 53 percent of the current free agents remain unsigned with spring training about to begin in 2 weeks. Veteran players like Neil Walker just signed today for 2 million dollars. Many players who are not elite, appear to be signing one year agreements for smaller salaries, or have even signed minor league contracts with invitations to ST. The Basic Agreement with the Players Union expires after the 2021 season. After witnessing these past two offseasons the players are going to take a very hard look at how teams are spending their revenue. Who knows if a salary floor was agreed upon possibly Bob Nutting may decide to put the team up for sale.
I think you are right in that next negotiations are going to try and cover issues about share of revenue to players. I don't know how they will do that.
a question about 53% of unsigned players. It seems to me that a lot of free agents are not going to be demand because they are at the end of their careers. People like Jose Bautista, Bartolo Colon, Doug Fister.
So I don't know if percentage of unsigned players is a good indicator.
I think the % means nothing. Here's the list of FAs. A few significant names on it. But anyone who is not under contract and is not wanted (like Sean Rodriguez or 46 year old Bartolo Colon, Daniel Hudson, 40 year old Peter Moylan, John Axford among others) is an unsigned FA. Any player just hoping to hang on and get 1 more chance is a FA. The union would have a hard time making the case that the percentage of unsigned "free agents" is meaningful.
https://www.mlb.com/news/2019-mlb-free- ... -293292274
I think you are right in that next negotiations are going to try and cover issues about share of revenue to players. I don't know how they will do that.
a question about 53% of unsigned players. It seems to me that a lot of free agents are not going to be demand because they are at the end of their careers. People like Jose Bautista, Bartolo Colon, Doug Fister.
So I don't know if percentage of unsigned players is a good indicator.
I think the % means nothing. Here's the list of FAs. A few significant names on it. But anyone who is not under contract and is not wanted (like Sean Rodriguez or 46 year old Bartolo Colon, Daniel Hudson, 40 year old Peter Moylan, John Axford among others) is an unsigned FA. Any player just hoping to hang on and get 1 more chance is a FA. The union would have a hard time making the case that the percentage of unsigned "free agents" is meaningful.
https://www.mlb.com/news/2019-mlb-free- ... -293292274
-
OrlandoMerced
Free Agency
The players have to pull their heads out of their asses, not listen to what their agents want, and do what's best for everyone.
It's a multi dimensional negotiation between the players and owners, small market vs large market and middle market vs large market.
The compromise between the owners has created the luxury tax and revenue sharing situation, and the only thing that the players continue to demand and get is the lack of a salary cap. From what I can see, that get for the players only benefits the elite FA's as it allows the haves to bid against each other. The luxury tax and revenue sharing amounts are strong enough to curtail spending at the luxury tax level and teams at the top seem to treat that as a salary cap. There is then no limit on how little a team can spend, and the manner in which a team contends is through prospect accumulation, and so that results in selective contention, which has resulted in widespread tanking. Widespread tanking immediately slashes demand for FA's.
The current dynamic is definitely going to lead to a strike, I fear that the small market teams are going to bite everyone's face off if pushed to accept a salary flood. So instead, I think the compromise is going to address the arbitration system and push the league away from that and to an RFA period. How that is resolved will show where the small market teams truly are.
It's a multi dimensional negotiation between the players and owners, small market vs large market and middle market vs large market.
The compromise between the owners has created the luxury tax and revenue sharing situation, and the only thing that the players continue to demand and get is the lack of a salary cap. From what I can see, that get for the players only benefits the elite FA's as it allows the haves to bid against each other. The luxury tax and revenue sharing amounts are strong enough to curtail spending at the luxury tax level and teams at the top seem to treat that as a salary cap. There is then no limit on how little a team can spend, and the manner in which a team contends is through prospect accumulation, and so that results in selective contention, which has resulted in widespread tanking. Widespread tanking immediately slashes demand for FA's.
The current dynamic is definitely going to lead to a strike, I fear that the small market teams are going to bite everyone's face off if pushed to accept a salary flood. So instead, I think the compromise is going to address the arbitration system and push the league away from that and to an RFA period. How that is resolved will show where the small market teams truly are.
Free Agency
Basic economics factors into this as well - supply and demand. If three players can do what a team needs and it only needs one player to do that, it can afford to be hard line. If the situation is reversed, the player can get a good to great deal. Analytics has also shown that "name" players may perform better than others, but not $20MM a year better. One of Boras's big arguments has been that the name player puts fans in the seats - it's that intangible 'excitement' feature - but with local television outweighing attendance as a factor in revenues, even that is of declining value as a feature to recommend paying a lot for a particular player.
-
OrlandoMerced
Free Agency
Yeah, I think the preponderance of analytics also shows teams the limited marginal value of a middling veteran free agent over replacement level organizational options. I think when you compile large data sets, you also see the correlation between production and playing time. There clearly exist players in organizations that could produce if given time to acclimate. So as NH, do you really want to pay ~4M to eliminate the potential gap between Gonzalez and Galvis? And as you look at the projections that your internal systems are giving you, you are probably looking at a decent chance that Gonzalez would outproduce Galvis in 2019. Especially with reports that their scouts see him as having tremendous defensive value.
Granted, that bucsdugout article could be spin pushed out by the organization to try and get fan support this player. But they could have scouts that are high on this guy, I don't know.
Granted, that bucsdugout article could be spin pushed out by the organization to try and get fan support this player. But they could have scouts that are high on this guy, I don't know.
Free Agency
576A7479767C77557D6A7B7D7C180 wrote: Yeah, I think the preponderance of analytics also shows teams the limited marginal value of a middling veteran free agent over replacement level organizational options. I think when you compile large data sets, you also see the correlation between production and playing time. There clearly exist players in organizations that could produce if given time to acclimate. So as NH, do you really want to pay ~4M to eliminate the potential gap between Gonzalez and Galvis? And as you look at the projections that your internal systems are giving you, you are probably looking at a decent chance that Gonzalez would outproduce Galvis in 2019. Especially with reports that their scouts see him as having tremendous defensive value.
Granted, that bucsdugout article could be spin pushed out by the organization to try and get fan support this player. But they could have scouts that are high on this guy, I don't know.
it is hard to tell what the Pirates really think. They gushed all over Drew Hutchison when he was acquired. The team really wanted him.
The worse case scenario is that Gonzalez is a no hit, average in the field at short.
The worse case scenario is unlikely to happen though. Even if his bat doesn't come through he can be a good a utility player for a couple of years. I like that Baseball reference predicts a little power from him so he isn't someone pitchers don't have to worry about.
Granted, that bucsdugout article could be spin pushed out by the organization to try and get fan support this player. But they could have scouts that are high on this guy, I don't know.
it is hard to tell what the Pirates really think. They gushed all over Drew Hutchison when he was acquired. The team really wanted him.
The worse case scenario is that Gonzalez is a no hit, average in the field at short.
The worse case scenario is unlikely to happen though. Even if his bat doesn't come through he can be a good a utility player for a couple of years. I like that Baseball reference predicts a little power from him so he isn't someone pitchers don't have to worry about.
-
Bobster21
Free Agency
765051465040330 wrote: Yeah, I think the preponderance of analytics also shows teams the limited marginal value of a middling veteran free agent over replacement level organizational options. I think when you compile large data sets, you also see the correlation between production and playing time. There clearly exist players in organizations that could produce if given time to acclimate. So as NH, do you really want to pay ~4M to eliminate the potential gap between Gonzalez and Galvis? And as you look at the projections that your internal systems are giving you, you are probably looking at a decent chance that Gonzalez would outproduce Galvis in 2019. Especially with reports that their scouts see him as having tremendous defensive value.
Granted, that bucsdugout article could be spin pushed out by the organization to try and get fan support this player. But they could have scouts that are high on this guy, I don't know.
it is hard to tell what the Pirates really think. They gushed all over Drew Hutchison when he was acquired. The team really wanted him.
The worse case scenario is that Gonzalez is a no hit, average in the field at short.
The worse case scenario is unlikely to happen though. Even if his bat doesn't come through he can be a good a utility player for a couple of years. I like that Baseball reference predicts a little power from him so he isn't someone pitchers don't have to worry about.
The Drew Hutchison episode is very interesting. Did they trade Liriano and 2 prospects for a pitcher they were truly enamored with or did they lie to their fan base about being enamored with him? It was no secret they were shedding salary and NH admitted that was a factor in the deal. Hutchison had a 5.57 ERA for Toronto in 2015 and despite winning 13 games thanks to the best run support in the AL, was optioned the following year. He pitched adequately at Indy in 2017, making the AAA all-star team but wasn't even recalled when the Pirates suffered poor starting pitching throughout 2017. He was released a year later. All of which suggests the Pirates were not so incompetent at player evaluation that they truly desired Hutchison. But rather they accepted him as a throw-in to try to spin the move to their fans while giving away 3 players to shed Liriano's salary. The point being you never know what to believe when TBMTIB speaks.
Granted, that bucsdugout article could be spin pushed out by the organization to try and get fan support this player. But they could have scouts that are high on this guy, I don't know.
it is hard to tell what the Pirates really think. They gushed all over Drew Hutchison when he was acquired. The team really wanted him.
The worse case scenario is that Gonzalez is a no hit, average in the field at short.
The worse case scenario is unlikely to happen though. Even if his bat doesn't come through he can be a good a utility player for a couple of years. I like that Baseball reference predicts a little power from him so he isn't someone pitchers don't have to worry about.
The Drew Hutchison episode is very interesting. Did they trade Liriano and 2 prospects for a pitcher they were truly enamored with or did they lie to their fan base about being enamored with him? It was no secret they were shedding salary and NH admitted that was a factor in the deal. Hutchison had a 5.57 ERA for Toronto in 2015 and despite winning 13 games thanks to the best run support in the AL, was optioned the following year. He pitched adequately at Indy in 2017, making the AAA all-star team but wasn't even recalled when the Pirates suffered poor starting pitching throughout 2017. He was released a year later. All of which suggests the Pirates were not so incompetent at player evaluation that they truly desired Hutchison. But rather they accepted him as a throw-in to try to spin the move to their fans while giving away 3 players to shed Liriano's salary. The point being you never know what to believe when TBMTIB speaks.