Scroll down just a little from the "Bob Nutting" entry, and there's a link to a 30-year spreadsheet of free agent signings:
https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/c ... h-pirates/
Pirate free agent signings, 1991-2021
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
-
2drfischer@gmail.c
Pirate free agent signings, 1991-2021
14273B3A3931073A213D2621303C3B550 wrote: Scroll down just a little from the "Bob Nutting" entry, and there's a link to a 30-year spreadsheet of free agent signings:
https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/c ... h-pirates/
As with a lot of teams, the Pirates had a few good signings and a lot of bad ones because of the big risks in that market. But the one guy on that list who I find the most detestable is Raul Mondesi. He had a decent first month and then he walked out on his team. To me, that's unforgiveable.
https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/c ... h-pirates/
As with a lot of teams, the Pirates had a few good signings and a lot of bad ones because of the big risks in that market. But the one guy on that list who I find the most detestable is Raul Mondesi. He had a decent first month and then he walked out on his team. To me, that's unforgiveable.
-
ChitownBucco
- Posts: 492
- Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:10 pm
Pirate free agent signings, 1991-2021
2003 was my favorite group
if Giles and Aram had been healthy that could have been an interesting year.
then Krissy Benson got hurt and instead of dumping his salary to meet debt obligations we had to unload Aram at his lowest value ever.
if Giles and Aram had been healthy that could have been an interesting year.
then Krissy Benson got hurt and instead of dumping his salary to meet debt obligations we had to unload Aram at his lowest value ever.
-
johnfluharty
Pirate free agent signings, 1991-2021
Imagine if we had kept Aram and also figured out Jose Bautista. That would have been some power duo.
Pirate free agent signings, 1991-2021
7570777179736A777E6D6B661F0 wrote: Imagine if we had kept Aram and also figured out Jose Bautista. That would have been some power duo.
I will always believe that the Bucs screwed up the Aram deal.
If MLB gave the team a deadline and they had to make a deal in a couple days it is still a shame on the Bucs. They had to know that was coming. I cannot believe that they were blindsided by MLB (as far as I know that didn't happen to any other team in the ten years before that deal or any time since).
Having that level of financial difficulties and making a deal that bad just showed that Pirate management was incompetent.
I will always believe that the Bucs screwed up the Aram deal.
If MLB gave the team a deadline and they had to make a deal in a couple days it is still a shame on the Bucs. They had to know that was coming. I cannot believe that they were blindsided by MLB (as far as I know that didn't happen to any other team in the ten years before that deal or any time since).
Having that level of financial difficulties and making a deal that bad just showed that Pirate management was incompetent.
-
Bobster21
Pirate free agent signings, 1991-2021
527475627464170 wrote: Imagine if we had kept Aram and also figured out Jose Bautista. That would have been some power duo.
I will always believe that the Bucs screwed up the Aram deal.
If MLB gave the team a deadline and they had to make a deal in a couple days it is still a shame on the Bucs. They had to know that was coming. I cannot believe that they were blindsided by MLB (as far as I know that didn't happen to any other team in the ten years before that deal or any time since).
Having that level of financial difficulties and making a deal that bad just showed that Pirate management was incompetent.
From what I heard, they had arranged to trade Benson to Atlanta for payroll relief. But he hurt his arm in what was to be his last Pirate start. So they didn't have much time to find another trade but even so, I can't believe they couldn't have received a better offer for Aram and Lofton. A lot of teams would have liked to have those 2 players and the Bucs basically gave them away for nothing.
I will always believe that the Bucs screwed up the Aram deal.
If MLB gave the team a deadline and they had to make a deal in a couple days it is still a shame on the Bucs. They had to know that was coming. I cannot believe that they were blindsided by MLB (as far as I know that didn't happen to any other team in the ten years before that deal or any time since).
Having that level of financial difficulties and making a deal that bad just showed that Pirate management was incompetent.
From what I heard, they had arranged to trade Benson to Atlanta for payroll relief. But he hurt his arm in what was to be his last Pirate start. So they didn't have much time to find another trade but even so, I can't believe they couldn't have received a better offer for Aram and Lofton. A lot of teams would have liked to have those 2 players and the Bucs basically gave them away for nothing.
Pirate free agent signings, 1991-2021
220F02131405125251600 wrote: Imagine if we had kept Aram and also figured out Jose Bautista. That would have been some power duo.
I will always believe that the Bucs screwed up the Aram deal.
If MLB gave the team a deadline and they had to make a deal in a couple days it is still a shame on the Bucs. They had to know that was coming. I cannot believe that they were blindsided by MLB (as far as I know that didn't happen to any other team in the ten years before that deal or any time since).
Having that level of financial difficulties and making a deal that bad just showed that Pirate management was incompetent.
From what I heard, they had arranged to trade Benson to Atlanta for payroll relief. But he hurt his arm in what was to be his last Pirate start. So they didn't have much time to find another trade but even so, I can't believe they couldn't have received a better offer for Aram and Lofton. A lot of teams would have liked to have those 2 players and the Bucs basically gave them away for nothing.
yes, I have heard the Benson story but can't believe they could not do better. Also, why would they only have Benson deal in the pipeline and no other options if it was such a dire situation. Based on what they got for Aram and Lofton can't think they would have gotten much for Benson than salary relief. When they did deal Benson it wasn't for much either and they threw in Keppinger who ended up with a nice career.
I will always believe that the Bucs screwed up the Aram deal.
If MLB gave the team a deadline and they had to make a deal in a couple days it is still a shame on the Bucs. They had to know that was coming. I cannot believe that they were blindsided by MLB (as far as I know that didn't happen to any other team in the ten years before that deal or any time since).
Having that level of financial difficulties and making a deal that bad just showed that Pirate management was incompetent.
From what I heard, they had arranged to trade Benson to Atlanta for payroll relief. But he hurt his arm in what was to be his last Pirate start. So they didn't have much time to find another trade but even so, I can't believe they couldn't have received a better offer for Aram and Lofton. A lot of teams would have liked to have those 2 players and the Bucs basically gave them away for nothing.
yes, I have heard the Benson story but can't believe they could not do better. Also, why would they only have Benson deal in the pipeline and no other options if it was such a dire situation. Based on what they got for Aram and Lofton can't think they would have gotten much for Benson than salary relief. When they did deal Benson it wasn't for much either and they threw in Keppinger who ended up with a nice career.
-
GnatsEyelash
Pirate free agent signings, 1991-2021
4B6D6C7B6D7D0E0 wrote: Imagine if we had kept Aram and also figured out Jose Bautista. That would have been some power duo.
I will always believe that the Bucs screwed up the Aram deal.
If MLB gave the team a deadline and they had to make a deal in a couple days it is still a shame on the Bucs. They had to know that was coming. I cannot believe that they were blindsided by MLB (as far as I know that didn't happen to any other team in the ten years before that deal or any time since).
Having that level of financial difficulties and making a deal that bad just showed that Pirate management was incompetent.
From what I heard, they had arranged to trade Benson to Atlanta for payroll relief. But he hurt his arm in what was to be his last Pirate start. So they didn't have much time to find another trade but even so, I can't believe they couldn't have received a better offer for Aram and Lofton. A lot of teams would have liked to have those 2 players and the Bucs basically gave them away for nothing.
yes, I have heard the Benson story but can't believe they could not do better. Also, why would they only have Benson deal in the pipeline and no other options if it was such a dire situation. Based on what they got for Aram and Lofton can't think they would have gotten much for Benson than salary relief. When they did deal Benson it wasn't for much either and they threw in Keppinger who ended up with a nice career.
From what I heard from someone involved with the front office at the time, the Pirates already had a deal for Lofton to the Cubs and when Benson became injured, they just expanded the Lofton deal.
What is missing in the incompetence is the previous off season, when players like Lofton and Sanders were signed under the impression they fit into the budget. That tells me the budget was crafted with little to no understanding of what was required from MLB. What did they know and when did they know it is something of which we've never gotten a good explanation.
I will always believe that the Bucs screwed up the Aram deal.
If MLB gave the team a deadline and they had to make a deal in a couple days it is still a shame on the Bucs. They had to know that was coming. I cannot believe that they were blindsided by MLB (as far as I know that didn't happen to any other team in the ten years before that deal or any time since).
Having that level of financial difficulties and making a deal that bad just showed that Pirate management was incompetent.
From what I heard, they had arranged to trade Benson to Atlanta for payroll relief. But he hurt his arm in what was to be his last Pirate start. So they didn't have much time to find another trade but even so, I can't believe they couldn't have received a better offer for Aram and Lofton. A lot of teams would have liked to have those 2 players and the Bucs basically gave them away for nothing.
yes, I have heard the Benson story but can't believe they could not do better. Also, why would they only have Benson deal in the pipeline and no other options if it was such a dire situation. Based on what they got for Aram and Lofton can't think they would have gotten much for Benson than salary relief. When they did deal Benson it wasn't for much either and they threw in Keppinger who ended up with a nice career.
From what I heard from someone involved with the front office at the time, the Pirates already had a deal for Lofton to the Cubs and when Benson became injured, they just expanded the Lofton deal.
What is missing in the incompetence is the previous off season, when players like Lofton and Sanders were signed under the impression they fit into the budget. That tells me the budget was crafted with little to no understanding of what was required from MLB. What did they know and when did they know it is something of which we've never gotten a good explanation.
-
ArnoldRothstein
Pirate free agent signings, 1991-2021
What is missing in the incompetence is the previous off season, when players like Lofton and Sanders were signed under the impression they fit into the budget. That tells me the budget was crafted with little to no understanding of what was required from MLB. What did they know and when did they know it is something of which we've never gotten a good explanation.
Sanders and Lofton were making relative peanuts, they both signed in March for about $1 million.* Aramis made $3 million that year and that was going to $6 million in 2004.
I think people underrate the possibility that the Pirates thought Aramis was a dud and that his contract was an albatross. They were in their sixth season with him, and had gotten just the one big year in the majors.
*Perhaps someone can help: wasn't there some kind of collusion proceeding resulting from that offseason.
Sanders and Lofton were making relative peanuts, they both signed in March for about $1 million.* Aramis made $3 million that year and that was going to $6 million in 2004.
I think people underrate the possibility that the Pirates thought Aramis was a dud and that his contract was an albatross. They were in their sixth season with him, and had gotten just the one big year in the majors.
*Perhaps someone can help: wasn't there some kind of collusion proceeding resulting from that offseason.
-
Bobster21
Pirate free agent signings, 1991-2021
260F0015122418040D001209610 wrote: Imagine if we had kept Aram and also figured out Jose Bautista. That would have been some power duo.
I will always believe that the Bucs screwed up the Aram deal.
If MLB gave the team a deadline and they had to make a deal in a couple days it is still a shame on the Bucs. They had to know that was coming. I cannot believe that they were blindsided by MLB (as far as I know that didn't happen to any other team in the ten years before that deal or any time since).
Having that level of financial difficulties and making a deal that bad just showed that Pirate management was incompetent.
From what I heard, they had arranged to trade Benson to Atlanta for payroll relief. But he hurt his arm in what was to be his last Pirate start. So they didn't have much time to find another trade but even so, I can't believe they couldn't have received a better offer for Aram and Lofton. A lot of teams would have liked to have those 2 players and the Bucs basically gave them away for nothing.
yes, I have heard the Benson story but can't believe they could not do better. Also, why would they only have Benson deal in the pipeline and no other options if it was such a dire situation. Based on what they got for Aram and Lofton can't think they would have gotten much for Benson than salary relief. When they did deal Benson it wasn't for much either and they threw in Keppinger who ended up with a nice career.
From what I heard from someone involved with the front office at the time, the Pirates already had a deal for Lofton to the Cubs and when Benson became injured, they just expanded the Lofton deal.
What is missing in the incompetence is the previous off season, when players like Lofton and Sanders were signed under the impression they fit into the budget. That tells me the budget was crafted with little to no understanding of what was required from MLB. What did they know and when did they know it is something of which we've never gotten a good explanation.
I think that's possible. Lofton was having a very good season that included a 26 game hitting streak and 18 SBs at the time of the deal. What the Cubs gave up was so minimal that it would have been a steal just to get Lofton for those 3 guys. I suspect Littlefield essentially just threw Aram into the deal to unload salary at the last minute after the Benson deal was called off. It's hard to believe he couldn't have just picked up the phone and called any number of GMs and said, "I'm about to give Aram and Lotfon to the Cubs for Larry, Moe and Curly? Wanna make me a better offer?" But Littlefield was an atrocious GM.
I will always believe that the Bucs screwed up the Aram deal.
If MLB gave the team a deadline and they had to make a deal in a couple days it is still a shame on the Bucs. They had to know that was coming. I cannot believe that they were blindsided by MLB (as far as I know that didn't happen to any other team in the ten years before that deal or any time since).
Having that level of financial difficulties and making a deal that bad just showed that Pirate management was incompetent.
From what I heard, they had arranged to trade Benson to Atlanta for payroll relief. But he hurt his arm in what was to be his last Pirate start. So they didn't have much time to find another trade but even so, I can't believe they couldn't have received a better offer for Aram and Lofton. A lot of teams would have liked to have those 2 players and the Bucs basically gave them away for nothing.
yes, I have heard the Benson story but can't believe they could not do better. Also, why would they only have Benson deal in the pipeline and no other options if it was such a dire situation. Based on what they got for Aram and Lofton can't think they would have gotten much for Benson than salary relief. When they did deal Benson it wasn't for much either and they threw in Keppinger who ended up with a nice career.
From what I heard from someone involved with the front office at the time, the Pirates already had a deal for Lofton to the Cubs and when Benson became injured, they just expanded the Lofton deal.
What is missing in the incompetence is the previous off season, when players like Lofton and Sanders were signed under the impression they fit into the budget. That tells me the budget was crafted with little to no understanding of what was required from MLB. What did they know and when did they know it is something of which we've never gotten a good explanation.
I think that's possible. Lofton was having a very good season that included a 26 game hitting streak and 18 SBs at the time of the deal. What the Cubs gave up was so minimal that it would have been a steal just to get Lofton for those 3 guys. I suspect Littlefield essentially just threw Aram into the deal to unload salary at the last minute after the Benson deal was called off. It's hard to believe he couldn't have just picked up the phone and called any number of GMs and said, "I'm about to give Aram and Lotfon to the Cubs for Larry, Moe and Curly? Wanna make me a better offer?" But Littlefield was an atrocious GM.