Josh Bell to Nats

GreenWeenie · Post by **GreenWeenie** » Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:42 pm

Thanks for your suggestion, but I think I'll disregard it. I'll follow the teams that I want.

PMike · Post by **PMike** » Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:58 pm

This may be a separate thread, but I'd ask the "this was a salary dump move" exactly what they would do right now to make this a playoff team? If you had the current roster/system and had a max payroll over the next 5 years that averaged out to $110million a year, what would you do?

Personally, I'd love to hear how someone would take this team, the surplus cash to $110 and make it a playoff team.

DemDog · Post by **DemDog** » Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:04 pm

435E7A7876130 wrote: This may be a separate thread, but I'd ask the "this was a salary dump move" exactly what they would do right now to make this a playoff team? If you had the current roster/system and had a max payroll over the next 5 years that averaged out to $110million a year, what would you do?

Personally, I'd love to hear how someone would take this team, the surplus cash to $110 and make it a playoff team.

There is only one guy on here who knows how to do that and the GreenWeenie. What say ye GW, what would you do with your hail mary chance?

GreenWeenie · Post by **GreenWeenie** » Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:33 pm

Possum, seeing as how you enjoy writing on my behalf and Shed's, then distort us, feel free to hack away.

After years of following the Pirates under BOB's ownership, I'm left with the impression than Ben will improve the team only as much as he (BOB) will allow. That's something less than a world championship, and I've offered my explanation on that.

What I've written in the past still holds true today. I would expect a man with Ben's reputation to improve the team at one position, minimum, per year externally. That's either by trade or FA acquisition. That would allow for internal development, too. Do that for a couple of years, and we should see the benefits. On a .317 club, it wouldn't be unrealistic to expect it, but I wouldn't doubt that BOB gave instructions to build internally only or via trades. Only Ben knows.

Bobster21 · Post by **Bobster21** » Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:37 pm

083D2A2A21182A2A21262A4F0 wrote: We want the team to win in 2021. It surprises me that others feel perfectly fine with punting seasons away.

I don't buy into this slow motion nonsense.

My impression is that this is where our major differences are.
Is that what you call having a realistic understanding of the situation? We've all expressed our unhappiness at one time or another with how Nutting operates. We're certainly not perfectly fine with it. We understand that they won't spend for impact FAs. We're not perfectly fine with it but that's the situation. We understand that they aren't going to spend to acquire impact players in trades and don't have the talent to trade to acquire such players even if they were willing to increase payroll to accommodate them. We're not perfectly fine with it but that's the situation. We understand that the ONLY way the Pirates will become competitive is to improve the talent level thru the draft or trading for prospects with the idea that-unlike the previous regime-those players will develop into productive major leaguers. "Punting seasons away" implies that there was another realistic option. Other than a magic wand, what is that other option that we are perfectly fine ignoring?

GreenWeenie · Post by **GreenWeenie** » Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:50 pm

Yes. Those were my impressions.

shedman · Post by **shedman** » Sat Dec 26, 2020 12:42 am

Possum, seeing as how you enjoy writing on my behalf and Shed's, then distort us, feel free to hack away.

After years of following the Pirates under BOB's ownership, I'm left with the impression than Ben will improve the team only as much as he (BOB) will allow. That's something less than a world championship, and I've offered my explanation on that.

_________

I guess nobody else sees it the way we do. As you say, we had the worst W-L record in all of baseball. I an all for getting prospects, player development and drafting. But all teams have prospects, player development, and draft the best they can. That is not the answer. And when you have the worst team in all of baseball, the answer is NOT to be giving away players like Bell for a couple of guys that probably will never reach the major leagues. Your idea is the right one. Each year, Cherington should try to acquire 1 or maybe 2 major league ballplayers to improve the roster. Other small market teams do it. I blame the GM.

rucker59@gmail.com · Post by **rucker59@gmail.com** » Sat Dec 26, 2020 1:04 am

5B404D4C454946280 wrote: Possum, seeing as how you enjoy writing on my behalf and Shed's, then distort us, feel free to hack away.

After years of following the Pirates under BOB's ownership, I'm left with the impression than Ben will improve the team only as much as he (BOB) will allow. That's something less than a world championship, and I've offered my explanation on that.

_________

I guess nobody else sees it the way we do. As you say, we had the worst W-L record in all of baseball. I an all for getting prospects, player development and drafting. But all teams have prospects, player development, and draft the best they can. That is not the answer. And when you have the worst team in all of baseball, the answer is NOT to be giving away players like Bell for a couple of guys that probably will never reach the major leagues. Your idea is the right one. Each year, Cherington should try to acquire 1 or maybe 2 major league ballplayers to improve the roster. Other small market teams do it. I blame the GM.

If you’re driving a Chevy and want to trade up to a BMW you better have a lot of cash cause the Chevy isn’t getting you near the car you want. We all hoped Josh would be a BMW. He’s definitely not. The Pirates have a lot of chevys.

Josh was turned into a “holding a spot in the rotation” guy for hopefully 2021, 22. And Bell was turned into a potential mid rotation guy by 23 or so. The Pirates realisticlky can not compete before 23. BC has possibly added a fairly important piece of the 2023 and beyond team.

Not bad for a Chevy.

shedman · Post by **shedman** » Sat Dec 26, 2020 1:12 am

Using the car analogy, if you ha e a chevy and you want a BMW and your chevy is broke down and won't run, you should fix your car up so at least it is running and then figure out how to get the money for a BMW. Instead what Cherington did with Bell was take the front wheel off the broken car and trade it to someone for a couple of hubcaps.

GreenWeenie · Post by **GreenWeenie** » Sat Dec 26, 2020 1:34 am

Under ideal conditions, my idea would be to look at the eight position players and ask who is the worst of them? That might be the first place to improve upon. It's not always possible, but that would be the place I'd start, anyway.

I might look at all of my pitchers and do the same. Which one can I most easily improve upon?

Conditons aren't often ideal. One of our conditions is BOB.

I agree that Ben is capable of doing this- money, no object. But, in The Burgh, money is certainly a big object.

We'll go as far as BOB will allow; probably as fast as he'll allow, too.