Could be.
29 franchises can dump salary.
One can't.
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Our esteemed panel rated Bell 2, 2, and 2.5.
The Pirates got 0, 0, and 0.
Forget DT. Even JB would call that a Salary Dump.
Josh Bell to Nats
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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Bobster21
Josh Bell to Nats
203B36373E323D530 wrote: He's never wrong in a number of people's minds, too, if what I read and hear is to be believed.
Regardless, I'll throw The Reverse to you: It is NOT a Salary Dump in some people's mind, and nothing will change THEIR opinion, even in the face of the franchise's way of doing business.
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Let me explain. To some people, salary dumps are only salary dumps when the person making the dump is no longer in town. To them, there is no such thing as a salary dump if the person they are apologizing for is still employed by the Pirates.
So anyone who disagrees with you and dares to hope that BC will be better than NH and that he might have a reason for making a move other than a salary dump is immediately dismissed as an apologist and a can kicker. There can be no legitimate opinions other than your own and anyone who thinks otherwise must be discredited with one of your labels. Got it.
Regardless, I'll throw The Reverse to you: It is NOT a Salary Dump in some people's mind, and nothing will change THEIR opinion, even in the face of the franchise's way of doing business.
_______
Let me explain. To some people, salary dumps are only salary dumps when the person making the dump is no longer in town. To them, there is no such thing as a salary dump if the person they are apologizing for is still employed by the Pirates.
So anyone who disagrees with you and dares to hope that BC will be better than NH and that he might have a reason for making a move other than a salary dump is immediately dismissed as an apologist and a can kicker. There can be no legitimate opinions other than your own and anyone who thinks otherwise must be discredited with one of your labels. Got it.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Josh Bell to Nats
Shed can respond for himself. I'm only clarifying a point:
I dont recall anyone saying that The Bell Dump's only purpose was to shed salary.
I think that we all know that the motive was to punt away the 2021 season. In so doing, the team cut payroll.
That could change. It's possible that the next moves are made to help in 2021.
I dont recall anyone saying that The Bell Dump's only purpose was to shed salary.
I think that we all know that the motive was to punt away the 2021 season. In so doing, the team cut payroll.
That could change. It's possible that the next moves are made to help in 2021.
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2drfischer@gmail.c
Josh Bell to Nats
527475627464170 wrote: Will they be pitching for the Pirates in 2021? I'll ignore the personal attack. I don't recall doing that. Doesn't help to make a point.
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The can kickers are out ion full force tonight. Many have already punted away 2021, and one guy on here has punted away 2022 and is pointing to 2023. I wonder if we could get someone to punt away 2023 and 2024 and point to 2025 as our year. The can has been kicked down the road to a dirt path, then it is being kicked down the dirt path and we will need a machete to kick it any further.
I want the Pirates to win as badly as you do, as early as next year. This current roster can't. It's made-up of guys who won only one game out of three last year. Few of those players will get much better, and there's no one to trade to improve that roster for 2021, as we just witnessed yesterday. The owner will not allow for the acquisition of the type of free agent who can make the difference needed to win next year.
I don't like it any more than you do but it's going to take a minimum of two years for the Pirates to show signs of being competitive again, and that's if BC does miraculous work. Sadly, that's the reality.
There are no shortcuts. I said months ago that if BC hasn't made legitimate progress by the 2021 trade deadline that I'd agree that kicking the can is his objective and I'll join you in your criticism. Every GM deserves at least that amount of time to restructure his organization, especially one who works for an owner like Nutting.
This roster right now is an expansion like roster. Quite frankly if the fans don't show up and Bob cries and threatens to move the franchise somewhere - let him. MLB will give us an expansion team and we start out with a new owner and a roster like what we have right now. That is a huge gain for us.
I understand that sentiment if being done with Nutting is the objective because, frankly, he's by far the biggest obstacle to the team ever winning again. But my preference would be for the team to stay and Nutting to simply sell the franchise. Either that or MLB has to create equity by forcing all teams to spend the same amount of money on payroll.
Bell's defense is awful but it is at first base. Could be that other teams with better defenses at other positions don't care as much about his defense. I know defensive stats are flawed but if say Bell is 30th out of major league starters, [highlight]how much difference is there between that and the 20th ranked player?[/highlight]
Good point. But a first baseman will handle the ball far more often than, say, a right fielder. I would think that the 30th-ranked 1Bman could cause more damage than the 30th-ranked RFer. I would also think that the difference between the 30th-ranked 1Bman and the 20th-ranked 1Bman is more significant than the difference between the 30th-ranked RFer and the 20th-ranked RFer. Either way, Bell would be more serviceable in the AL than in the NL.
_______
The can kickers are out ion full force tonight. Many have already punted away 2021, and one guy on here has punted away 2022 and is pointing to 2023. I wonder if we could get someone to punt away 2023 and 2024 and point to 2025 as our year. The can has been kicked down the road to a dirt path, then it is being kicked down the dirt path and we will need a machete to kick it any further.
I want the Pirates to win as badly as you do, as early as next year. This current roster can't. It's made-up of guys who won only one game out of three last year. Few of those players will get much better, and there's no one to trade to improve that roster for 2021, as we just witnessed yesterday. The owner will not allow for the acquisition of the type of free agent who can make the difference needed to win next year.
I don't like it any more than you do but it's going to take a minimum of two years for the Pirates to show signs of being competitive again, and that's if BC does miraculous work. Sadly, that's the reality.
There are no shortcuts. I said months ago that if BC hasn't made legitimate progress by the 2021 trade deadline that I'd agree that kicking the can is his objective and I'll join you in your criticism. Every GM deserves at least that amount of time to restructure his organization, especially one who works for an owner like Nutting.
This roster right now is an expansion like roster. Quite frankly if the fans don't show up and Bob cries and threatens to move the franchise somewhere - let him. MLB will give us an expansion team and we start out with a new owner and a roster like what we have right now. That is a huge gain for us.
I understand that sentiment if being done with Nutting is the objective because, frankly, he's by far the biggest obstacle to the team ever winning again. But my preference would be for the team to stay and Nutting to simply sell the franchise. Either that or MLB has to create equity by forcing all teams to spend the same amount of money on payroll.
Bell's defense is awful but it is at first base. Could be that other teams with better defenses at other positions don't care as much about his defense. I know defensive stats are flawed but if say Bell is 30th out of major league starters, [highlight]how much difference is there between that and the 20th ranked player?[/highlight]
Good point. But a first baseman will handle the ball far more often than, say, a right fielder. I would think that the 30th-ranked 1Bman could cause more damage than the 30th-ranked RFer. I would also think that the difference between the 30th-ranked 1Bman and the 20th-ranked 1Bman is more significant than the difference between the 30th-ranked RFer and the 20th-ranked RFer. Either way, Bell would be more serviceable in the AL than in the NL.
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2drfischer@gmail.c
Josh Bell to Nats
0B262B3A3D2C3B7B78490 wrote: He's never wrong in a number of people's minds, too, if what I read and hear is to be believed.
Regardless, I'll throw The Reverse to you: It is NOT a Salary Dump in some people's mind, and nothing will change THEIR opinion, even in the face of the franchise's way of doing business.
_______
Let me explain. To some people, salary dumps are only salary dumps when the person making the dump is no longer in town. To them, there is no such thing as a salary dump if the person they are apologizing for is still employed by the Pirates.
So anyone who disagrees with you and dares to hope that BC will be better than NH and that he might have a reason for making a move other than a salary dump is immediately dismissed as an apologist and a can kicker. There can be no legitimate opinions other than your own and anyone who thinks otherwise must be discredited with one of your labels. Got it.
Yes, now you've got it.
Regardless, I'll throw The Reverse to you: It is NOT a Salary Dump in some people's mind, and nothing will change THEIR opinion, even in the face of the franchise's way of doing business.
_______
Let me explain. To some people, salary dumps are only salary dumps when the person making the dump is no longer in town. To them, there is no such thing as a salary dump if the person they are apologizing for is still employed by the Pirates.
So anyone who disagrees with you and dares to hope that BC will be better than NH and that he might have a reason for making a move other than a salary dump is immediately dismissed as an apologist and a can kicker. There can be no legitimate opinions other than your own and anyone who thinks otherwise must be discredited with one of your labels. Got it.
Yes, now you've got it.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Josh Bell to Nats
I don't know anyone here who has hoped that Cherington wouldn't be more successful than Huntington was.
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Bobster21
Josh Bell to Nats
033621212A1321212A2D21440 wrote: I don't know anyone here who has hoped that Cherington wouldn't be more successful than Huntington was.
Then which is it? He's involved in a slow process to rebuild the team where NH failed, or he's just kicking the can down the road misleading the fans into thinking the Bucs will compete in a few years while all the while just saving Nutting money? You can't have it both ways.
Then which is it? He's involved in a slow process to rebuild the team where NH failed, or he's just kicking the can down the road misleading the fans into thinking the Bucs will compete in a few years while all the while just saving Nutting money? You can't have it both ways.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Josh Bell to Nats
We want the team to win in 2021. It surprises me that others feel perfectly fine with punting seasons away.
I don't buy into this slow motion nonsense.
My impression is that this is where our major differences are.
I don't buy into this slow motion nonsense.
My impression is that this is where our major differences are.
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DemDog
Josh Bell to Nats
1D283F3F340D3F3F34333F5A0 wrote: He's never wrong in a number of people's minds, too, if what I read and hear is to be believed.
Regardless, I'll throw The Reverse to you: It is NOT a Salary Dump in some people's minds, and nothing will change THEIR opinion, even in the face of the franchise's way of doing business.
At least I don't constantly bicker about anything BC or Nutting do is a salary dump.
May I suggest that you find another team to root for that will go out and spend, spend, spend to your heart's content?
Regardless, I'll throw The Reverse to you: It is NOT a Salary Dump in some people's minds, and nothing will change THEIR opinion, even in the face of the franchise's way of doing business.
At least I don't constantly bicker about anything BC or Nutting do is a salary dump.
May I suggest that you find another team to root for that will go out and spend, spend, spend to your heart's content?
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Bobster21
Josh Bell to Nats
794C5B5B50695B5B50575B3E0 wrote: We want the team to win in 2021. It surprises me that others feel perfectly fine with punting seasons away.
I don't buy into this slow motion nonsense.
My impression is that this is where our major differences are.
Well, if Nutting has given BC a blank check to immediately turn over this terrible roster with impact free agents as well as a gun to force other GMs to trade their impact players for what the Pirates could give them, you could very well see them winning in 2021. Absent that, BC's only chance to succeed is to do it by building up the system, which will take a few years. You can characterize it as "punting" but that ignores the reality that he has no other option. You might as well criticize them every day for failing to fly to Jupiter. There's as much chance of that as there is of winning in 2021. But somehow I doubt that Nutting told BC to do whatever he needed to do to win immediately and BC refused, saying he'd rather punt.
I don't buy into this slow motion nonsense.
My impression is that this is where our major differences are.
Well, if Nutting has given BC a blank check to immediately turn over this terrible roster with impact free agents as well as a gun to force other GMs to trade their impact players for what the Pirates could give them, you could very well see them winning in 2021. Absent that, BC's only chance to succeed is to do it by building up the system, which will take a few years. You can characterize it as "punting" but that ignores the reality that he has no other option. You might as well criticize them every day for failing to fly to Jupiter. There's as much chance of that as there is of winning in 2021. But somehow I doubt that Nutting told BC to do whatever he needed to do to win immediately and BC refused, saying he'd rather punt.