072A27363120377774450 wrote: Maybe (and I wouldn't even have a problem with it) but "big money" spent on a manager and on a player are two totally different animals. The highest manager in all of baseball this year was 6MM (Maddon and Bochy). The rest were much much lower than that. I would not be shocked either way (established name vs. newcomer).
People are still acting as if the Pirates have never eaten a contract before.
Yes but eating contracts is worse for Nutting than for owners less reluctant to spend on their teams. They gave up 2 of their top 10 prospects at the time just to avoid eating any of Liriano's contract a couple years ago. Hurdle was one of MLB's highest paid managers at 3 million. That pales in comparison to player salaries but it's also about the same amount they gave away Dickerson to save. A few years ago they gave Nicasio away just to save $600,000. So whatever they pay the new manager, the total paid out for managing the Pirates will be that amount plus Hurdle's 3 million for the next 2 years. That has to be a concern for the Pirates. But also, an established manager would have to have concerns about working for this organization after seeing how finances severely limited the talent available to Hurdle.
IMHO, the ideal scenario is that someone who sees the Pirates as a chance to get his feet wet as a MLB mgr or someone like Banister who had a brief run and would see this as an opportunity to get another chance would want the job. And if they did a good job, they could get a raise in 2 years after Hurdle's contract is off the books.
Just generally speaking (and maybe I'm just being sentimental) I think I'd be supportive of Banister getting the job
Hurdle fired
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
-
Bobster21
Hurdle fired
5B6965657143606964616E69080 wrote: Maybe (and I wouldn't even have a problem with it) but "big money" spent on a manager and on a player are two totally different animals. The highest manager in all of baseball this year was 6MM (Maddon and Bochy). The rest were much much lower than that. I would not be shocked either way (established name vs. newcomer).
People are still acting as if the Pirates have never eaten a contract before.
Yes but eating contracts is worse for Nutting than for owners less reluctant to spend on their teams. They gave up 2 of their top 10 prospects at the time just to avoid eating any of Liriano's contract a couple years ago. Hurdle was one of MLB's highest paid managers at 3 million. That pales in comparison to player salaries but it's also about the same amount they gave away Dickerson to save. A few years ago they gave Nicasio away just to save $600,000. So whatever they pay the new manager, the total paid out for managing the Pirates will be that amount plus Hurdle's 3 million for the next 2 years. That has to be a concern for the Pirates. But also, an established manager would have to have concerns about working for this organization after seeing how finances severely limited the talent available to Hurdle.
IMHO, the ideal scenario is that someone who sees the Pirates as a chance to get his feet wet as a MLB mgr or someone like Banister who had a brief run and would see this as an opportunity to get another chance would want the job. And if they did a good job, they could get a raise in 2 years after Hurdle's contract is off the books.
Just generally speaking (and maybe I'm just being sentimental) I think I'd be supportive of Banister getting the job
I'd be ok with Banister too. I like what I read about him when Texas fired him:
Banister, the son of a Texas high school football coach, had an intense, direct, no-nonsense style of leadership. He believed strongly in fundamentals and playing the game right, and he was not afraid to communicate his feelings directly. The Rangers' decision to make a change suggests his leadership style may have run its course with the players and organization.
https://www.mlb.com/news/jeff-banister- ... c295484568
For too long we've seen the Pirates display poor fundamentals, sometimes lack of hustle. And I think they need a mgr who will tell NH when he thinks he's wrong. Maybe Banister would be a good choice.
People are still acting as if the Pirates have never eaten a contract before.
Yes but eating contracts is worse for Nutting than for owners less reluctant to spend on their teams. They gave up 2 of their top 10 prospects at the time just to avoid eating any of Liriano's contract a couple years ago. Hurdle was one of MLB's highest paid managers at 3 million. That pales in comparison to player salaries but it's also about the same amount they gave away Dickerson to save. A few years ago they gave Nicasio away just to save $600,000. So whatever they pay the new manager, the total paid out for managing the Pirates will be that amount plus Hurdle's 3 million for the next 2 years. That has to be a concern for the Pirates. But also, an established manager would have to have concerns about working for this organization after seeing how finances severely limited the talent available to Hurdle.
IMHO, the ideal scenario is that someone who sees the Pirates as a chance to get his feet wet as a MLB mgr or someone like Banister who had a brief run and would see this as an opportunity to get another chance would want the job. And if they did a good job, they could get a raise in 2 years after Hurdle's contract is off the books.
Just generally speaking (and maybe I'm just being sentimental) I think I'd be supportive of Banister getting the job
I'd be ok with Banister too. I like what I read about him when Texas fired him:
Banister, the son of a Texas high school football coach, had an intense, direct, no-nonsense style of leadership. He believed strongly in fundamentals and playing the game right, and he was not afraid to communicate his feelings directly. The Rangers' decision to make a change suggests his leadership style may have run its course with the players and organization.
https://www.mlb.com/news/jeff-banister- ... c295484568
For too long we've seen the Pirates display poor fundamentals, sometimes lack of hustle. And I think they need a mgr who will tell NH when he thinks he's wrong. Maybe Banister would be a good choice.
Hurdle fired
566867676D6463606D6D4964736E010 wrote: http://www.dkpittsburghsports.com/2019/ ... s-that-it/
DK hits a Home Run with this article.
Eh, Kovacevic has a Paul Bunyan-sized axe to grind with Nuttington and Stark going back to the Hoka Hey stuff, so I take whatever he writes about them with an ocean of salt. On the other hand, this organization honestly deserves whatever churlish screeds Kovacevic bangs out at this point.
DK is fine as long as the topic isn't the Pirates. I think his hurt goes back to the days of NH trading away Freddie Sanchez and Jack Wilson. It wasn't a secret that DK was close with those players (especially when there was gaps in leadership prior to NH). He went off the deep end when they were traded.
I don't find him respectable when he writes on the Pirates. This article is a good example. I think he has some ok points but goes so overboard in making them that I can't take him seriously.
DK hits a Home Run with this article.
Eh, Kovacevic has a Paul Bunyan-sized axe to grind with Nuttington and Stark going back to the Hoka Hey stuff, so I take whatever he writes about them with an ocean of salt. On the other hand, this organization honestly deserves whatever churlish screeds Kovacevic bangs out at this point.
DK is fine as long as the topic isn't the Pirates. I think his hurt goes back to the days of NH trading away Freddie Sanchez and Jack Wilson. It wasn't a secret that DK was close with those players (especially when there was gaps in leadership prior to NH). He went off the deep end when they were traded.
I don't find him respectable when he writes on the Pirates. This article is a good example. I think he has some ok points but goes so overboard in making them that I can't take him seriously.
Hurdle fired
I disagree with you guys regarding DK. I don’t subscribe to his site, but I think he’s a very good writer. I always enjoyed him when he was on the Pirates beat with the PPG. Frankly, I thought his article was spot on. He articulated what most on this board know to be the case, that the problem isn’t Hurdle, or Coonelly, or Huntington, but Nutting. As a guy whose livelihood depends on access to the team, I thought it took an awful lot of courage to pen that article. Bob could revoke his press pass. Bob could instruct people not to talk to him. But until Bob changes or the Pirates get a new owner, 2019 will be the norm, not 2015. Good for him for knowing that he has a persuasive voice and for not being afraid to use it.
-
rucker59@gmail.com
Hurdle fired
1D1516213712353A540 wrote: I disagree with you guys regarding DK. I don’t subscribe to his site, but I think he’s a very good writer. I always enjoyed him when he was on the Pirates beat with the PPG. Frankly, I thought his article was spot on. He articulated what most on this board know to be the case, that the problem isn’t Hurdle, or Coonelly, or Huntington, but Nutting. As a guy whose livelihood depends on access to the team, I thought it took an awful lot of courage to pen that article. Bob could revoke his press pass. Bob could instruct people not to talk to him. But until Bob changes or the Pirates get a new owner, 2019 will be the norm, not 2015. Good for him for knowing that he has a persuasive voice and for not being afraid to use it.
Same with me. I don’t know how even one point in the article can be called out as unfair. Spot on.
Same with me. I don’t know how even one point in the article can be called out as unfair. Spot on.
-
UtahPirate
- Posts: 582
- Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:36 pm
Hurdle fired
1F212E2E242D2A292424002D3A27480 wrote: http://www.dkpittsburghsports.com/2019/ ... s-that-it/
DK hits a Home Run with this article.
Eh, Kovacevic has a Paul Bunyan-sized axe to grind with Nuttington and Stark going back to the Hoka Hey stuff, so I take whatever he writes about them with an ocean of salt. On the other hand, this organization honestly deserves whatever churlish screeds Kovacevic bangs out at this point.
You beat me to it. The "Hoka Hey fiasco" as he again calls it? Excuse me while I yawn. And DK, don't forget to tell us all that the winning years were based on Littlefield's (puke) players. I haven't read him in years and he still beats the same drum. I can hear the axe as it grinds away ...
DK hits a Home Run with this article.
Eh, Kovacevic has a Paul Bunyan-sized axe to grind with Nuttington and Stark going back to the Hoka Hey stuff, so I take whatever he writes about them with an ocean of salt. On the other hand, this organization honestly deserves whatever churlish screeds Kovacevic bangs out at this point.
You beat me to it. The "Hoka Hey fiasco" as he again calls it? Excuse me while I yawn. And DK, don't forget to tell us all that the winning years were based on Littlefield's (puke) players. I haven't read him in years and he still beats the same drum. I can hear the axe as it grinds away ...
Hurdle fired
313620282631767A03242E222A2F6D202C2E430 wrote: I disagree with you guys regarding DK. I don’t subscribe to his site, but I think he’s a very good writer. I always enjoyed him when he was on the Pirates beat with the PPG. Frankly, I thought his article was spot on. He articulated what most on this board know to be the case, that the problem isn’t Hurdle, or Coonelly, or Huntington, but Nutting. As a guy whose livelihood depends on access to the team, I thought it took an awful lot of courage to pen that article. Bob could revoke his press pass. Bob could instruct people not to talk to him. But until Bob changes or the Pirates get a new owner, 2019 will be the norm, not 2015. Good for him for knowing that he has a persuasive voice and for not being afraid to use it.
Same with me. I don’t know how even one point in the article can be called out as unfair. Spot on.
The guy fills his writing with incorrect innuendo. Pretty much the first thing he writes stretches the Pirates words incorrectly.
DK: " It was announced via email by, of all people, Neal Huntington, that the team and the manager had reached a mutual parting of the ways. Which was an outright lie."
Except the Pirates didn't say it was mutual. DK made up that word. The Pirates Twitter post right below that says: "Pirates announce the Club and Clint Hurdle part ways."
Note that it does not say that they "mutually" parted ways. Then, the first actual sentence of the the release says, "The Pittsburgh Pirates announced today that Clint Hurdle has been received of his duties as Pirates manager."
That seems pretty straightforward. That is the PC, corporate way of saying he was fired.
The whole article is soaked with this sort of nonsense. Again, the Pirates deserve to be lambasted. DK has some good points. He doesn't need to make stretch the boundaries of legitimate journalism to do it.
The crazy part is that he doesn't do this stuff with Pitt or other sports he covers.
Same with me. I don’t know how even one point in the article can be called out as unfair. Spot on.
The guy fills his writing with incorrect innuendo. Pretty much the first thing he writes stretches the Pirates words incorrectly.
DK: " It was announced via email by, of all people, Neal Huntington, that the team and the manager had reached a mutual parting of the ways. Which was an outright lie."
Except the Pirates didn't say it was mutual. DK made up that word. The Pirates Twitter post right below that says: "Pirates announce the Club and Clint Hurdle part ways."
Note that it does not say that they "mutually" parted ways. Then, the first actual sentence of the the release says, "The Pittsburgh Pirates announced today that Clint Hurdle has been received of his duties as Pirates manager."
That seems pretty straightforward. That is the PC, corporate way of saying he was fired.
The whole article is soaked with this sort of nonsense. Again, the Pirates deserve to be lambasted. DK has some good points. He doesn't need to make stretch the boundaries of legitimate journalism to do it.
The crazy part is that he doesn't do this stuff with Pitt or other sports he covers.
-
SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3630
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Hurdle fired
To be fair, both sides of this little mini-argument could be and probably are correct . . .
-
rucker59@gmail.com
Hurdle fired
6A7753515F3A0 wrote: I disagree with you guys regarding DK. I don’t subscribe to his site, but I think he’s a very good writer. I always enjoyed him when he was on the Pirates beat with the PPG. Frankly, I thought his article was spot on. He articulated what most on this board know to be the case, that the problem isn’t Hurdle, or Coonelly, or Huntington, but Nutting. As a guy whose livelihood depends on access to the team, I thought it took an awful lot of courage to pen that article. Bob could revoke his press pass. Bob could instruct people not to talk to him. But until Bob changes or the Pirates get a new owner, 2019 will be the norm, not 2015. Good for him for knowing that he has a persuasive voice and for not being afraid to use it.
Same with me. I don’t know how even one point in the article can be called out as unfair. Spot on.
The guy fills his writing with incorrect innuendo. Pretty much the first thing he writes stretches the Pirates words incorrectly.
DK: " It was announced via email by, of all people, Neal Huntington, that the team and the manager had reached a mutual parting of the ways. Which was an outright lie."
Except the Pirates didn't say it was mutual. DK made up that word. The Pirates Twitter post right below that says: "Pirates announce the Club and Clint Hurdle part ways."
Note that it does not say that they "mutually" parted ways. Then, the first actual sentence of the the release says, "The Pittsburgh Pirates announced today that Clint Hurdle has been received of his duties as Pirates manager."
That seems pretty straightforward. That is the PC, corporate way of saying he was fired.
The whole article is soaked with this sort of nonsense. Again, the Pirates deserve to be lambasted. DK has some good points. He doesn't need to make stretch the boundaries of legitimate journalism to do it.
The crazy part is that he doesn't do this stuff with Pitt or other sports he covers.
Thanks for pointing this out. While that's a minor point overall, an outright lie raises questions to any assertion he might make.
I think the article resonated with me because it sounds like a well-written post from a fan. His passion definitely is on display. Reading it feels like a defense of the fans who love the organization and are helpless to do anything as Nutting seems unconcerned about the product on the field nor the operation of the rest of MLB teams.
Probably it's not the most professional article, but after being kicked around AND ignored by the Pirate FO, it feels good having someone speak for the fans.
Same with me. I don’t know how even one point in the article can be called out as unfair. Spot on.
The guy fills his writing with incorrect innuendo. Pretty much the first thing he writes stretches the Pirates words incorrectly.
DK: " It was announced via email by, of all people, Neal Huntington, that the team and the manager had reached a mutual parting of the ways. Which was an outright lie."
Except the Pirates didn't say it was mutual. DK made up that word. The Pirates Twitter post right below that says: "Pirates announce the Club and Clint Hurdle part ways."
Note that it does not say that they "mutually" parted ways. Then, the first actual sentence of the the release says, "The Pittsburgh Pirates announced today that Clint Hurdle has been received of his duties as Pirates manager."
That seems pretty straightforward. That is the PC, corporate way of saying he was fired.
The whole article is soaked with this sort of nonsense. Again, the Pirates deserve to be lambasted. DK has some good points. He doesn't need to make stretch the boundaries of legitimate journalism to do it.
The crazy part is that he doesn't do this stuff with Pitt or other sports he covers.
Thanks for pointing this out. While that's a minor point overall, an outright lie raises questions to any assertion he might make.
I think the article resonated with me because it sounds like a well-written post from a fan. His passion definitely is on display. Reading it feels like a defense of the fans who love the organization and are helpless to do anything as Nutting seems unconcerned about the product on the field nor the operation of the rest of MLB teams.
Probably it's not the most professional article, but after being kicked around AND ignored by the Pirate FO, it feels good having someone speak for the fans.
Hurdle fired
yep. Some of what DK adds in that opinion article is less than honest.
The organization/ ownership/ FO lies over and over again, time and time again... still fans!
Sports writer lambasts them, and a few points are stretched? ... garbage writer, grinding an axe, attack the messenger. Cancelled as a writer.
So it goes in Pirate land.
PMike:
"The crazy part is that he doesn't do this stuff with Pitt or other sports he covers. "
I feel the opposite. It's crazy that any writer gives the Pirates org any benefit of the doubt, ever, compared with the other clubs in town.
The organization/ ownership/ FO lies over and over again, time and time again... still fans!
Sports writer lambasts them, and a few points are stretched? ... garbage writer, grinding an axe, attack the messenger. Cancelled as a writer.
So it goes in Pirate land.
PMike:
"The crazy part is that he doesn't do this stuff with Pitt or other sports he covers. "
I feel the opposite. It's crazy that any writer gives the Pirates org any benefit of the doubt, ever, compared with the other clubs in town.