3E3B2C3F69181B5A0 wrote: I can't believe how shocked people are that Glasnow looks like he MIGHT be figuring it out. He was absolutely unhittable in the minors and had only about 130 IP with the big league club. People around here need to get some patience with pitchers. Lots of guys take 200+ IP in the majors to be usable.
Unhittable in the minors and the majors - two totally different things. We have seen this in Pittsburgh before. To be honest, I really think Glasnow needed a change of scenery. I didn't foresee him improving here and becoming a good pitcher. Cool, he MIGHT have figured it out in Tampa. Until he puts together a full year of it, I don't think he has figured out anything just yet.
Looking ahead to 2019 aka Hot Stove Thread
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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Bobster21
Looking ahead to 2019 aka Hot Stove Thread
0E1E1F283E3E325D0 wrote: I can't believe how shocked people are that Glasnow looks like he MIGHT be figuring it out. He was absolutely unhittable in the minors and had only about 130 IP with the big league club. People around here need to get some patience with pitchers. Lots of guys take 200+ IP in the majors to be usable.
Unhittable in the minors and the majors - two totally different things. We have seen this in Pittsburgh before. To be honest, I really think Glasnow needed a change of scenery. I didn't foresee him improving here and becoming a good pitcher. Cool, he MIGHT have figured it out in Tampa. Until he puts together a full year of it, I don't think he has figured out anything just yet.
I agree. The problem seemed to be between his ears. From the first moment he was promoted he struggled very badly with the Pirates. Despite those gaudy minor league stats, which demonstrated his immense potential, he always seemed to be dealing with failure as a Pirate and just trying to show that he wasn't a dud rather than showing his capabilities. In other words, as a Pirate he was trying to avoid his floor. As a Ray, he's focused on showing his ceiling. The change of scenery was perfect for him. He got away from a team he felt he was letting down, which no doubt added pressure every time he entered a game. He went to a team that made a trade because they wanted him and immediately gave him a pat on the back by telling him he was in the rotation. Looks like that was the confidence builder he needed. I don't blame the Pirates. It had gotten to the point where they breathed a sigh of relief every time he survived a short outing without melting down. Glad to see him doing well now. But I don't think that would have happened with the Pirates.
Unhittable in the minors and the majors - two totally different things. We have seen this in Pittsburgh before. To be honest, I really think Glasnow needed a change of scenery. I didn't foresee him improving here and becoming a good pitcher. Cool, he MIGHT have figured it out in Tampa. Until he puts together a full year of it, I don't think he has figured out anything just yet.
I agree. The problem seemed to be between his ears. From the first moment he was promoted he struggled very badly with the Pirates. Despite those gaudy minor league stats, which demonstrated his immense potential, he always seemed to be dealing with failure as a Pirate and just trying to show that he wasn't a dud rather than showing his capabilities. In other words, as a Pirate he was trying to avoid his floor. As a Ray, he's focused on showing his ceiling. The change of scenery was perfect for him. He got away from a team he felt he was letting down, which no doubt added pressure every time he entered a game. He went to a team that made a trade because they wanted him and immediately gave him a pat on the back by telling him he was in the rotation. Looks like that was the confidence builder he needed. I don't blame the Pirates. It had gotten to the point where they breathed a sigh of relief every time he survived a short outing without melting down. Glad to see him doing well now. But I don't think that would have happened with the Pirates.
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SammyKhalifa
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Looking ahead to 2019 aka Hot Stove Thread
But really, Asdrubal Cabrera plays Short and Second and Third--and while not the exciting name du jour and is getting up there in age, has also had 20+HR in three of the last four years. He's also an actual free agent and not someone we just wish would be.
Looking ahead to 2019 aka Hot Stove Thread
53616D6D794B68616C696661000 wrote: But really, Asdrubal Cabrera plays Short and Second and Third--and while not the exciting name du jour and is getting up there in age, has also had 20+HR in three of the last four years. He's also an actual free agent and not someone we just wish would be.
He would be a nice player to get. I don't think his glove is good enough to be a regular at short but he could be backup there.
He could be somebody who wants to play one position but if he is willing to move between second, short and third (and could most likely learn to play first too) would be good insurance for Moran, Kramer and Newman. I could see him beating out at least one of them for regular playing time.
He would be a nice player to get. I don't think his glove is good enough to be a regular at short but he could be backup there.
He could be somebody who wants to play one position but if he is willing to move between second, short and third (and could most likely learn to play first too) would be good insurance for Moran, Kramer and Newman. I could see him beating out at least one of them for regular playing time.
Looking ahead to 2019 aka Hot Stove Thread
7C6C6D5A4C4C402F0 wrote: I can't believe how shocked people are that Glasnow looks like he MIGHT be figuring it out. He was absolutely unhittable in the minors and had only about 130 IP with the big league club. People around here need to get some patience with pitchers. Lots of guys take 200+ IP in the majors to be usable.
Unhittable in the minors and the majors - two totally different things. We have seen this in Pittsburgh before. To be honest, I really think Glasnow needed a change of scenery. I didn't foresee him improving here and becoming a good pitcher. Cool, he MIGHT have figured it out in Tampa. Until he puts together a full year of it, I don't think he has figured out anything just yet.
When have we seen someone as dominant as Glasnow in the minor leagues? I can't think of anyone. It is foolish to think he will never have success in the majors simply based off what we saw in a Pirates uniform. If that's even your assumption (it seems to be).
Unhittable in the minors and the majors - two totally different things. We have seen this in Pittsburgh before. To be honest, I really think Glasnow needed a change of scenery. I didn't foresee him improving here and becoming a good pitcher. Cool, he MIGHT have figured it out in Tampa. Until he puts together a full year of it, I don't think he has figured out anything just yet.
When have we seen someone as dominant as Glasnow in the minor leagues? I can't think of anyone. It is foolish to think he will never have success in the majors simply based off what we saw in a Pirates uniform. If that's even your assumption (it seems to be).
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maher.timothy20@gm
Looking ahead to 2019 aka Hot Stove Thread
082C383035590 wrote: I can't believe how shocked people are that Glasnow looks like he MIGHT be figuring it out. He was absolutely unhittable in the minors and had only about 130 IP with the big league club. People around here need to get some patience with pitchers. Lots of guys take 200+ IP in the majors to be usable.
I still wonder if the progress Glasnow has shown with the Rays would have ever happened with the Bucs.
But we didn't have to wonder. That's the frustrating part. We could have, you know, given him a few starts back in June. Instead he's getting that tryout in Tampa Bay, after we'd waited out his development for years.
And yes, I know we gave him starts last year, but that's the beside the point. He was in over his head last year. This year we set him up perfectly, let him gain some confidence out of the pen. He was primed and ready for some starts. Instead we got Brault and Kingham.
I still wonder if the progress Glasnow has shown with the Rays would have ever happened with the Bucs.
But we didn't have to wonder. That's the frustrating part. We could have, you know, given him a few starts back in June. Instead he's getting that tryout in Tampa Bay, after we'd waited out his development for years.
And yes, I know we gave him starts last year, but that's the beside the point. He was in over his head last year. This year we set him up perfectly, let him gain some confidence out of the pen. He was primed and ready for some starts. Instead we got Brault and Kingham.
Looking ahead to 2019 aka Hot Stove Thread
3C303934237F25383C3E253928636111363C510 wrote: I can't believe how shocked people are that Glasnow looks like he MIGHT be figuring it out. He was absolutely unhittable in the minors and had only about 130 IP with the big league club. People around here need to get some patience with pitchers. Lots of guys take 200+ IP in the majors to be usable.
I still wonder if the progress Glasnow has shown with the Rays would have ever happened with the Bucs.
But we didn't have to wonder. That's the frustrating part. We could have, you know, given him a few starts back in June. Instead he's getting that tryout in Tampa Bay, after we'd waited out his development for years.
And yes, I know we gave him starts last year, but that's the beside the point. He was in over his head last year. This year we set him up perfectly, let him gain some confidence out of the pen. He was primed and ready for some starts. Instead we got Brault and Kingham.
To be fair he was hardly stellar in low leverage middle relief while pitching for us. He was averaging 5.5 BB/9 innings. Not the kind of number that screams "let him get some starts". Since joining Tampa that number has been 2.8. Somehow he's cut his walk rate in half. I don't think that was what would have happened in Pittsburgh just by giving him some starts. That seems like a coaching issue that was poorly addressed by the Pirates. When coaching failures go unrecognized an organization can make some serious mistakes evaluating talent.
I still wonder if the progress Glasnow has shown with the Rays would have ever happened with the Bucs.
But we didn't have to wonder. That's the frustrating part. We could have, you know, given him a few starts back in June. Instead he's getting that tryout in Tampa Bay, after we'd waited out his development for years.
And yes, I know we gave him starts last year, but that's the beside the point. He was in over his head last year. This year we set him up perfectly, let him gain some confidence out of the pen. He was primed and ready for some starts. Instead we got Brault and Kingham.
To be fair he was hardly stellar in low leverage middle relief while pitching for us. He was averaging 5.5 BB/9 innings. Not the kind of number that screams "let him get some starts". Since joining Tampa that number has been 2.8. Somehow he's cut his walk rate in half. I don't think that was what would have happened in Pittsburgh just by giving him some starts. That seems like a coaching issue that was poorly addressed by the Pirates. When coaching failures go unrecognized an organization can make some serious mistakes evaluating talent.
Looking ahead to 2019 aka Hot Stove Thread
0327333B3E520 wrote: I can't believe how shocked people are that Glasnow looks like he MIGHT be figuring it out. He was absolutely unhittable in the minors and had only about 130 IP with the big league club. People around here need to get some patience with pitchers. Lots of guys take 200+ IP in the majors to be usable.
I still wonder if the progress Glasnow has shown with the Rays would have ever happened with the Bucs.
But we didn't have to wonder. That's the frustrating part. We could have, you know, given him a few starts back in June. Instead he's getting that tryout in Tampa Bay, after we'd waited out his development for years.
And yes, I know we gave him starts last year, but that's the beside the point. He was in over his head last year. This year we set him up perfectly, let him gain some confidence out of the pen. He was primed and ready for some starts. Instead we got Brault and Kingham.
To be fair he was hardly stellar in low leverage middle relief while pitching for us. He was averaging 5.5 BB/9 innings. Not the kind of number that screams "let him get some starts". Since joining Tampa that number has been 2.8. Somehow he's cut his walk rate in half. I don't think that was what would have happened in Pittsburgh just by giving him some starts. That seems like a coaching issue that was poorly addressed by the Pirates. When coaching failures go unrecognized an organization can make some serious mistakes evaluating talent.
The Rays have a different philosophy about starters too. I think that played a part in the Bucs not giving Glasnow a start or two. The Bucs want starters to go for at least 5 innings and hopefully six most of the time. Glasnow was only ready to go 3 innings with Bucs. The Rays didn't care. The Rays decided to start games with bullpen pitchers that might go 2 or 3 innings and that is how Glasnow got to start. IMO, the Rays got creative with their starting pitchers. His first 3 starts with Rays were 3, 4 and 5 innings. The Bucs would never have given him a 3 or 4 inning start.
I still wonder if the progress Glasnow has shown with the Rays would have ever happened with the Bucs.
But we didn't have to wonder. That's the frustrating part. We could have, you know, given him a few starts back in June. Instead he's getting that tryout in Tampa Bay, after we'd waited out his development for years.
And yes, I know we gave him starts last year, but that's the beside the point. He was in over his head last year. This year we set him up perfectly, let him gain some confidence out of the pen. He was primed and ready for some starts. Instead we got Brault and Kingham.
To be fair he was hardly stellar in low leverage middle relief while pitching for us. He was averaging 5.5 BB/9 innings. Not the kind of number that screams "let him get some starts". Since joining Tampa that number has been 2.8. Somehow he's cut his walk rate in half. I don't think that was what would have happened in Pittsburgh just by giving him some starts. That seems like a coaching issue that was poorly addressed by the Pirates. When coaching failures go unrecognized an organization can make some serious mistakes evaluating talent.
The Rays have a different philosophy about starters too. I think that played a part in the Bucs not giving Glasnow a start or two. The Bucs want starters to go for at least 5 innings and hopefully six most of the time. Glasnow was only ready to go 3 innings with Bucs. The Rays didn't care. The Rays decided to start games with bullpen pitchers that might go 2 or 3 innings and that is how Glasnow got to start. IMO, the Rays got creative with their starting pitchers. His first 3 starts with Rays were 3, 4 and 5 innings. The Bucs would never have given him a 3 or 4 inning start.
Looking ahead to 2019 aka Hot Stove Thread
785C484045290 wrote: I can't believe how shocked people are that Glasnow looks like he MIGHT be figuring it out. He was absolutely unhittable in the minors and had only about 130 IP with the big league club. People around here need to get some patience with pitchers. Lots of guys take 200+ IP in the majors to be usable.
I still wonder if the progress Glasnow has shown with the Rays would have ever happened with the Bucs.
But we didn't have to wonder. That's the frustrating part. We could have, you know, given him a few starts back in June. Instead he's getting that tryout in Tampa Bay, after we'd waited out his development for years.
And yes, I know we gave him starts last year, but that's the beside the point. He was in over his head last year. This year we set him up perfectly, let him gain some confidence out of the pen. He was primed and ready for some starts. Instead we got Brault and Kingham.
To be fair he was hardly stellar in low leverage middle relief while pitching for us. He was averaging 5.5 BB/9 innings. Not the kind of number that screams "let him get some starts". Since joining Tampa that number has been 2.8. Somehow he's cut his walk rate in half. I don't think that was what would have happened in Pittsburgh just by giving him some starts. That seems like a coaching issue that was poorly addressed by the Pirates. When coaching failures go unrecognized an organization can make some serious mistakes evaluating talent.
But is it a coaching thing? I mean, it's not like the strike zone changed on the flight from Pittsburgh to Tampa. The plate's the same size. Same 60'6" between the mound and the plate. Not exactly a novel concept that pitchers have more success when they throw more strikes and walk fewer guys. Doesn't exactly take a rocket scientist to say, "Hey, Tyler...see this box on the screen here? It's called the strike zone. Throw the ball in it." I guess what I'm saying is that unless TB drastically changed his delivery, these results seem to be mentally driven. And even if they did change his delivery, the results wouldn't happen almost instantaneously. Good for him, whatever it is. I'm not convinced it's real. Lots of guys have strung a few decent outings together. Zack Duke and Paul Maholm looked like the next big thing when they came up. That didn't exactly work out as planned.
I still wonder if the progress Glasnow has shown with the Rays would have ever happened with the Bucs.
But we didn't have to wonder. That's the frustrating part. We could have, you know, given him a few starts back in June. Instead he's getting that tryout in Tampa Bay, after we'd waited out his development for years.
And yes, I know we gave him starts last year, but that's the beside the point. He was in over his head last year. This year we set him up perfectly, let him gain some confidence out of the pen. He was primed and ready for some starts. Instead we got Brault and Kingham.
To be fair he was hardly stellar in low leverage middle relief while pitching for us. He was averaging 5.5 BB/9 innings. Not the kind of number that screams "let him get some starts". Since joining Tampa that number has been 2.8. Somehow he's cut his walk rate in half. I don't think that was what would have happened in Pittsburgh just by giving him some starts. That seems like a coaching issue that was poorly addressed by the Pirates. When coaching failures go unrecognized an organization can make some serious mistakes evaluating talent.
But is it a coaching thing? I mean, it's not like the strike zone changed on the flight from Pittsburgh to Tampa. The plate's the same size. Same 60'6" between the mound and the plate. Not exactly a novel concept that pitchers have more success when they throw more strikes and walk fewer guys. Doesn't exactly take a rocket scientist to say, "Hey, Tyler...see this box on the screen here? It's called the strike zone. Throw the ball in it." I guess what I'm saying is that unless TB drastically changed his delivery, these results seem to be mentally driven. And even if they did change his delivery, the results wouldn't happen almost instantaneously. Good for him, whatever it is. I'm not convinced it's real. Lots of guys have strung a few decent outings together. Zack Duke and Paul Maholm looked like the next big thing when they came up. That didn't exactly work out as planned.
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SammyKhalifa
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- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Looking ahead to 2019 aka Hot Stove Thread
Speaking of such things, Rays recall Austin Meadows