Kingham up, Moroff down
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3642
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Kingham up, Moroff down
IMO Polanco's biggest issue is overcoming the hype he received before first coming up.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Kingham up, Moroff down
69687362743433070 wrote:
It is maddening that Dog comes up with this he is having the best year of his career stat wise. He is hitting in the 220s, the vast majority of his power came in the first 10 games ... he still isn't a consistent hitter (streaky as hell) and his defense sucks. I was enamored with his potential after the 22-homer, 86-RBI season. Heck, I was earlier with all the hype. He looks the part no doubt. To me, Polanco is the single most frustrating player for me to watch since, well, Pedro or Kris Benson. Someone I bet would salivate over him as far as a trade and deal something better than he is worth our way. I would go that route. He is what he is ...
I didn't come up with it. It is a fact according to stats. If you look at one stat, batting average, of course you will think that. I even mentioned earlier how the statisticians don't even care about batting average anymore.
Tell us, why is he not having his best season so far stat wise?
So just because this is statistically his best season (so far) that doesn't mean it's good! A .335 OBP still isn't great. The slugging is fine at .462. Just because as you always point out "he is the best option on the roster", doesn't mean the Pirates should be satisfied with his production. I cannot understand your infatuation with mediocre players.
I didn't say he was having a great season. I pointed out that he is having his best season so far stat wise.
Yes, until someone better comes along they play. Why would you play a lesser talent because someone isn't living up to expectations? The best player plays the majority of the time.
It is maddening that Dog comes up with this he is having the best year of his career stat wise. He is hitting in the 220s, the vast majority of his power came in the first 10 games ... he still isn't a consistent hitter (streaky as hell) and his defense sucks. I was enamored with his potential after the 22-homer, 86-RBI season. Heck, I was earlier with all the hype. He looks the part no doubt. To me, Polanco is the single most frustrating player for me to watch since, well, Pedro or Kris Benson. Someone I bet would salivate over him as far as a trade and deal something better than he is worth our way. I would go that route. He is what he is ...
I didn't come up with it. It is a fact according to stats. If you look at one stat, batting average, of course you will think that. I even mentioned earlier how the statisticians don't even care about batting average anymore.
Tell us, why is he not having his best season so far stat wise?
So just because this is statistically his best season (so far) that doesn't mean it's good! A .335 OBP still isn't great. The slugging is fine at .462. Just because as you always point out "he is the best option on the roster", doesn't mean the Pirates should be satisfied with his production. I cannot understand your infatuation with mediocre players.
I didn't say he was having a great season. I pointed out that he is having his best season so far stat wise.
Yes, until someone better comes along they play. Why would you play a lesser talent because someone isn't living up to expectations? The best player plays the majority of the time.
Kingham up, Moroff down
414A424E4B4A511412655C444D4A4A0B464A250 wrote:
It is maddening that Dog comes up with this he is having the best year of his career stat wise. He is hitting in the 220s, the vast majority of his power came in the first 10 games ... he still isn't a consistent hitter (streaky as hell) and his defense sucks. I was enamored with his potential after the 22-homer, 86-RBI season. Heck, I was earlier with all the hype. He looks the part no doubt. To me, Polanco is the single most frustrating player for me to watch since, well, Pedro or Kris Benson. Someone I bet would salivate over him as far as a trade and deal something better than he is worth our way. I would go that route. He is what he is ...
I didn't come up with it. It is a fact according to stats. If you look at one stat, batting average, of course you will think that. I even mentioned earlier how the statisticians don't even care about batting average anymore.
Tell us, why is he not having his best season so far stat wise?
So just because this is statistically his best season (so far) that doesn't mean it's good! A .335 OBP still isn't great. The slugging is fine at .462. Just because as you always point out "he is the best option on the roster", doesn't mean the Pirates should be satisfied with his production. I cannot understand your infatuation with mediocre players.
I didn't say he was having a great season. I pointed out that he is having his best season so far stat wise.
Yes, until someone better comes along they play. Why would you play a lesser talent because someone isn't living up to expectations? The best player plays the majority of the time.
::) Seriously please just stop.
It is maddening that Dog comes up with this he is having the best year of his career stat wise. He is hitting in the 220s, the vast majority of his power came in the first 10 games ... he still isn't a consistent hitter (streaky as hell) and his defense sucks. I was enamored with his potential after the 22-homer, 86-RBI season. Heck, I was earlier with all the hype. He looks the part no doubt. To me, Polanco is the single most frustrating player for me to watch since, well, Pedro or Kris Benson. Someone I bet would salivate over him as far as a trade and deal something better than he is worth our way. I would go that route. He is what he is ...
I didn't come up with it. It is a fact according to stats. If you look at one stat, batting average, of course you will think that. I even mentioned earlier how the statisticians don't even care about batting average anymore.
Tell us, why is he not having his best season so far stat wise?
So just because this is statistically his best season (so far) that doesn't mean it's good! A .335 OBP still isn't great. The slugging is fine at .462. Just because as you always point out "he is the best option on the roster", doesn't mean the Pirates should be satisfied with his production. I cannot understand your infatuation with mediocre players.
I didn't say he was having a great season. I pointed out that he is having his best season so far stat wise.
Yes, until someone better comes along they play. Why would you play a lesser talent because someone isn't living up to expectations? The best player plays the majority of the time.
::) Seriously please just stop.
Kingham up, Moroff down
604D40515647501013220 wrote: The statisticians are now looking at exit velocity, elevation angles and throwing away batting average. Polanco is having his best season stat wise.
Even though he has been in the league for four plus years, he is still pretty young. He is only a year older than Bell, Moran, Osuna, and Moroff. He is younger than Diaz and same age as Frazier, Taillon, Williams, Kingham, Crick, and Kuhl. Most of us are giving those guys time to grow, but is done with Polanco.
This is why, in my opinion, it is a tough decision on what to do with Polanco. He has shown signs of being an All Star type player. Does he deserve more time?
Yes, Polanco's OBP, SLG and OPS suggest he's having his best season stat wise. But a closer look reveals how misleading stats can be. He got off to an incredible start in his first 11 games at a pace no one could maintain. But he's now played a total of 41 games with the subsequent 30 largely in the opposite direction. In the 30 games since that great 11-game start, his BA is .211, OBP is .316, SLG is .368 and OPS is .684. At that rate, he's trending more toward a career worst season rather than his best.
There is no sense me responding to Dog with this post already out there. This is pretty much spot on. The vast majority of his numbers can in the first 10-11 games. Since then, his numbers have dwindled. Only Dog can use a small sample size and think someone is onto a career year, when the overall picture suggests something totally different.
Even though he has been in the league for four plus years, he is still pretty young. He is only a year older than Bell, Moran, Osuna, and Moroff. He is younger than Diaz and same age as Frazier, Taillon, Williams, Kingham, Crick, and Kuhl. Most of us are giving those guys time to grow, but is done with Polanco.
This is why, in my opinion, it is a tough decision on what to do with Polanco. He has shown signs of being an All Star type player. Does he deserve more time?
Yes, Polanco's OBP, SLG and OPS suggest he's having his best season stat wise. But a closer look reveals how misleading stats can be. He got off to an incredible start in his first 11 games at a pace no one could maintain. But he's now played a total of 41 games with the subsequent 30 largely in the opposite direction. In the 30 games since that great 11-game start, his BA is .211, OBP is .316, SLG is .368 and OPS is .684. At that rate, he's trending more toward a career worst season rather than his best.
There is no sense me responding to Dog with this post already out there. This is pretty much spot on. The vast majority of his numbers can in the first 10-11 games. Since then, his numbers have dwindled. Only Dog can use a small sample size and think someone is onto a career year, when the overall picture suggests something totally different.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Kingham up, Moroff down
7262635442424E210 wrote: The statisticians are now looking at exit velocity, elevation angles and throwing away batting average. Polanco is having his best season stat wise.
Even though he has been in the league for four plus years, he is still pretty young. He is only a year older than Bell, Moran, Osuna, and Moroff. He is younger than Diaz and same age as Frazier, Taillon, Williams, Kingham, Crick, and Kuhl. Most of us are giving those guys time to grow, but is done with Polanco.
This is why, in my opinion, it is a tough decision on what to do with Polanco. He has shown signs of being an All Star type player. Does he deserve more time?
Yes, Polanco's OBP, SLG and OPS suggest he's having his best season stat wise. But a closer look reveals how misleading stats can be. He got off to an incredible start in his first 11 games at a pace no one could maintain. But he's now played a total of 41 games with the subsequent 30 largely in the opposite direction. In the 30 games since that great 11-game start, his BA is .211, OBP is .316, SLG is .368 and OPS is .684. At that rate, he's trending more toward a career worst season rather than his best.
There is no sense me responding to Dog with this post already out there. This is pretty much spot on. The vast majority of his numbers can in the first 10-11 games. Since then, his numbers have dwindled. Only Dog can use a small sample size and think someone is onto a career year, when the overall picture suggests something totally different.
Until those numbers dip, I am right. Stats don't lie. I am using his full season of stats too, not just the 11 games and then the last 30 games. You are using a smaller sample size.
Good answer. Once again, you can't answer any questions asked to you but you continue to call me out and bash me.
Even though he has been in the league for four plus years, he is still pretty young. He is only a year older than Bell, Moran, Osuna, and Moroff. He is younger than Diaz and same age as Frazier, Taillon, Williams, Kingham, Crick, and Kuhl. Most of us are giving those guys time to grow, but is done with Polanco.
This is why, in my opinion, it is a tough decision on what to do with Polanco. He has shown signs of being an All Star type player. Does he deserve more time?
Yes, Polanco's OBP, SLG and OPS suggest he's having his best season stat wise. But a closer look reveals how misleading stats can be. He got off to an incredible start in his first 11 games at a pace no one could maintain. But he's now played a total of 41 games with the subsequent 30 largely in the opposite direction. In the 30 games since that great 11-game start, his BA is .211, OBP is .316, SLG is .368 and OPS is .684. At that rate, he's trending more toward a career worst season rather than his best.
There is no sense me responding to Dog with this post already out there. This is pretty much spot on. The vast majority of his numbers can in the first 10-11 games. Since then, his numbers have dwindled. Only Dog can use a small sample size and think someone is onto a career year, when the overall picture suggests something totally different.
Until those numbers dip, I am right. Stats don't lie. I am using his full season of stats too, not just the 11 games and then the last 30 games. You are using a smaller sample size.
Good answer. Once again, you can't answer any questions asked to you but you continue to call me out and bash me.
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Wrathchild
- Posts: 152
- Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:23 pm
Kingham up, Moroff down
I don't get the hate toward Polanco at this juncture either. All players have hot and cold streaks. The fact still remains that he is having a good statistical overall season offensively this year with an OPS+ of 117 and he's doing it in a way that suggests it's sustainable. He might not hit 30 home runs but he's unlikely to hit .220 as well.
Regarding defense, he has been a slightly above average defender in the corners his whole career. This year, some metrics say he's been below average (BIS) but others say he's continued to be slightly above average (total zone). It's highly doubtful a 26-year-old guy suddenly can't cover ground in the outfield. he has a new and better center fielder next to him. The negative statistics are likely a factor of Marte getting to more balls that Polanco might be able to catch or a re-positioning of Polanco with the knowledge that Marte is simply better than what was next to him before.
Regarding defense, he has been a slightly above average defender in the corners his whole career. This year, some metrics say he's been below average (BIS) but others say he's continued to be slightly above average (total zone). It's highly doubtful a 26-year-old guy suddenly can't cover ground in the outfield. he has a new and better center fielder next to him. The negative statistics are likely a factor of Marte getting to more balls that Polanco might be able to catch or a re-positioning of Polanco with the knowledge that Marte is simply better than what was next to him before.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3642
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Kingham up, Moroff down
426774617D767D7C7971150 wrote: I don't get the hate toward Polanco at this juncture either. All players have hot and cold streaks. The fact still remains that he is having a good statistical overall season offensively this year with an OPS+ of 117 and he's doing it in a way that suggests it's sustainable. He might not hit 30 home runs but he's unlikely to hit .220 as well.
Regarding defense, he has been a slightly above average defender in the corners his whole career. This year, some metrics say he's been below average (BIS) but others say he's continued to be slightly above average (total zone). It's highly doubtful a 26-year-old guy suddenly can't cover ground in the outfield. he has a new and better center fielder next to him. The negative statistics are likely a factor of Marte getting to more balls that Polanco might be able to catch or a re-positioning of Polanco with the knowledge that Marte is simply better than what was next to him before.
I mostly agree. I guess I want him to be more consistent (who doesn't?) but don't see everyone's hurry to run him out of town either. The first two weeks of the season DOES count, you can't just remove those--just like you can't disregard a player's stone cold stretch or a SP's bad starts.
Is he getting the Adam Laroche treatment?
Regarding defense, he has been a slightly above average defender in the corners his whole career. This year, some metrics say he's been below average (BIS) but others say he's continued to be slightly above average (total zone). It's highly doubtful a 26-year-old guy suddenly can't cover ground in the outfield. he has a new and better center fielder next to him. The negative statistics are likely a factor of Marte getting to more balls that Polanco might be able to catch or a re-positioning of Polanco with the knowledge that Marte is simply better than what was next to him before.
I mostly agree. I guess I want him to be more consistent (who doesn't?) but don't see everyone's hurry to run him out of town either. The first two weeks of the season DOES count, you can't just remove those--just like you can't disregard a player's stone cold stretch or a SP's bad starts.
Is he getting the Adam Laroche treatment?
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3642
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Kingham up, Moroff down
496469787F6E79393A0B0 wrote:
Yes, Polanco's OBP, SLG and OPS suggest he's having his best season stat wise. But a closer look reveals how misleading stats can be. He got off to an incredible start in his first 11 games at a pace no one could maintain. But he's now played a total of 41 games with the subsequent 30 largely in the opposite direction. In the 30 games since that great 11-game start, his BA is .211, OBP is .316, SLG is .368 and OPS is .684. At that rate, he's trending more toward a career worst season rather than his best.
His OPS in May is .888.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/play ... r=2018&t=b
So are we really saying that numbers are misleading because all his stats were collected in the first 11 games and the last 15 games of the 41 games he's played?
Yes, Polanco's OBP, SLG and OPS suggest he's having his best season stat wise. But a closer look reveals how misleading stats can be. He got off to an incredible start in his first 11 games at a pace no one could maintain. But he's now played a total of 41 games with the subsequent 30 largely in the opposite direction. In the 30 games since that great 11-game start, his BA is .211, OBP is .316, SLG is .368 and OPS is .684. At that rate, he's trending more toward a career worst season rather than his best.
His OPS in May is .888.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/play ... r=2018&t=b
So are we really saying that numbers are misleading because all his stats were collected in the first 11 games and the last 15 games of the 41 games he's played?
Kingham up, Moroff down
What about the 15 in the middle. I think you made the point. There is zero consistency. He is frustrating. Even with his career year underway his WAR to this point of the season is .1.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3642
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Kingham up, Moroff down
30312A3B2D6D6A5E0 wrote: What about the 15 in the middle. I think you made the point. There is zero consistency. He is frustrating. Even with his career year underway his WAR to this point of the season is .1.
Oh he's totally inconsistent. But all his numbers aren't based on tbe beginning of the year. It hasn't been a constant slide since then. It's more complicated than that.
Oh he's totally inconsistent. But all his numbers aren't based on tbe beginning of the year. It hasn't been a constant slide since then. It's more complicated than that.