173A37262130276764550 wrote: MLB Network’s Jon Heyman reported that the Pirates will get right-handed pitchers Will Crowe and Eddy Yean in return.
The trade doesn't necessarily come as a shock, but it does signal a definitive direction for the Pirates: They are absolutely rebuilding, no matter what they do or say.
Bell was their biggest piece, and they moved him for future talent that's years away from the majors.
Crowe may be in the 2021 rotation.
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Pigs may fly in 2021 too.
Josh Bell to Nats
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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Bobster21
Josh Bell to Nats
Per the Trib:
By acquiring the 26-year-old Crowe (0-2 with an 11.88 ERA in three starts for the Nationals), whom Cherington said could compete for a spot in the starting rotation this spring, the Pirates appear to be willing to part with starting pitchers. Jameson Taillon, Joe Musgrove, Steven Brault and Chad Kuhl all have been mentioned in trade talks this offseason. Taillon avoided arbitration by signing for $2.25 million in 2021, but Brault, Kuhl and Musgrove are eligible for arbitration.
“In order to fill the talent base that’s big enough, deep enough, dynamic enough to win, we just need to add more,” Cherington said. “So when we have guys that might be at a point in their career where we have less time with them potentially, and there’s an opportunity to add more talent that we have longer time with, those are the kinds of things that we’re going to have to be willing to do, even when it involves someone like Josh, who we really respect.”
https://triblive.com/sports/pirates-tra ... -pitchers/
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Josh Bell to Nats
This team's not re-building. Face it. They don't have a budget to build a grass hut.
If they can't afford Josh Bell, they can't afford anyone.
You tell me how on earth the Pirates will assemble a team capable of winning the World Series when they can't even win the NL Central division.
We just saw how much good signing Bell to an extension did. We gave a bat away for nothing, and it's not like we had a fearsome lineup to begin with.
I don't care about Bell, directly. I care about winning. You don't win with moves like this.
This is no re-build. Call it what it is. Been five (now, six) years since the last one & done. It's no re-build. Who wants to re-build a .317 team? It's a pure salary dump.
The kind of guys the Pirates keep? Polanco.
NFWWL.
If they can't afford Josh Bell, they can't afford anyone.
You tell me how on earth the Pirates will assemble a team capable of winning the World Series when they can't even win the NL Central division.
We just saw how much good signing Bell to an extension did. We gave a bat away for nothing, and it's not like we had a fearsome lineup to begin with.
I don't care about Bell, directly. I care about winning. You don't win with moves like this.
This is no re-build. Call it what it is. Been five (now, six) years since the last one & done. It's no re-build. Who wants to re-build a .317 team? It's a pure salary dump.
The kind of guys the Pirates keep? Polanco.
NFWWL.
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Bobster21
Josh Bell to Nats
7F4A5D5D566F5D5D56515D380 wrote: This team's not re-building. Face it. They don't have a budget to build a grass hut.
If they can't afford Josh Bell, they can't afford anyone.
You tell me how on earth the Pirates will assemble a team capable of winning the World Series when they can't even win the NL Central division.
We just saw how much good signing Bell to an extension did. We gave a bat away for nothing, and it's not like we had a fearsome lineup to begin with.
I don't care about Bell, directly. I care about winning. You don't win with moves like this.
This is no re-build. Call it what it is. Who wants to re-build a .317 team? It's a pure salary dump.
The kind of guys the Pirates keep? Polanco.
NFWWL.
Impressive! I wish I had your scouting skills. I was wondering if these 2 pitchers might be worthwhile in a couple years. But you already cleared that up by declaring Bell was given away for nothing.
As someone who lacks your expertise, here's my take: There was zero chance Bell, Boras and Nutting would all happily agree on a contract extension to keep Bell beyond 2022. So trading him was a no-brainer. But in today's MLB, trades are rarely if ever based on talent for talent. Salary, years of control, and whether a team is trying to compete now or later are the main factors. And salaries are so high that all teams put a premium on their home grown prospects. Rarely does a team give up their best prospects. So teams looking to acquire prospects rather than keeping a player through losing seasons until he walks in free agency have to try to get the best of the prospects that are available. We rarely see blockbuster MLB deals anymore or even top prospects being dealt. So the issue becomes one of whether the GM acquiring "not ready for primetime" prospects has done his due diligence and acquired legit talent even if it's not ready right now.
I was curious to see if time will tell whether BC has done that or not (since that was NH's weakness and we haven't yet seen if BC is better at that). But you nicely cleared that up by immediately declaring Bell was given way for nothing. And you didn't even give a "spoiler alert." If I didn't know better I would just think that you were going to write off anything BC does because that's what you automatically do. I'll admit I don't know if this will turn out good or bad. All I know is that NH was fired and BC was hired because he's supposed to be better at this sort of thing than NH was. So while we wait to find out how these 2 pitchers turn out, why don't you tell us about a million times how pathetic this deal was since you seem to know everything.
If they can't afford Josh Bell, they can't afford anyone.
You tell me how on earth the Pirates will assemble a team capable of winning the World Series when they can't even win the NL Central division.
We just saw how much good signing Bell to an extension did. We gave a bat away for nothing, and it's not like we had a fearsome lineup to begin with.
I don't care about Bell, directly. I care about winning. You don't win with moves like this.
This is no re-build. Call it what it is. Who wants to re-build a .317 team? It's a pure salary dump.
The kind of guys the Pirates keep? Polanco.
NFWWL.
Impressive! I wish I had your scouting skills. I was wondering if these 2 pitchers might be worthwhile in a couple years. But you already cleared that up by declaring Bell was given away for nothing.
As someone who lacks your expertise, here's my take: There was zero chance Bell, Boras and Nutting would all happily agree on a contract extension to keep Bell beyond 2022. So trading him was a no-brainer. But in today's MLB, trades are rarely if ever based on talent for talent. Salary, years of control, and whether a team is trying to compete now or later are the main factors. And salaries are so high that all teams put a premium on their home grown prospects. Rarely does a team give up their best prospects. So teams looking to acquire prospects rather than keeping a player through losing seasons until he walks in free agency have to try to get the best of the prospects that are available. We rarely see blockbuster MLB deals anymore or even top prospects being dealt. So the issue becomes one of whether the GM acquiring "not ready for primetime" prospects has done his due diligence and acquired legit talent even if it's not ready right now.
I was curious to see if time will tell whether BC has done that or not (since that was NH's weakness and we haven't yet seen if BC is better at that). But you nicely cleared that up by immediately declaring Bell was given way for nothing. And you didn't even give a "spoiler alert." If I didn't know better I would just think that you were going to write off anything BC does because that's what you automatically do. I'll admit I don't know if this will turn out good or bad. All I know is that NH was fired and BC was hired because he's supposed to be better at this sort of thing than NH was. So while we wait to find out how these 2 pitchers turn out, why don't you tell us about a million times how pathetic this deal was since you seem to know everything.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Josh Bell to Nats
Will they be pitching for the Pirates in 2021? I'll ignore the personal attack. I don't recall doing that. Doesn't help to make a point.
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2drfischer@gmail.c
Josh Bell to Nats
None of us should be surprised by this move. Even though he won't admit it, we all know Cherington is rebuilding the organization in every way, including the major league roster. He knows he can't compete with the players in Pittsburgh, and that the minor league rosters have even less.
This is not unlike what Huntington faced and what his plan was. It's not the wrong plan, it just has to be done better than Huntington did it.
Bell wasn't going to be here by the time a competitive roster is built but, then again, neither will almost all of the other players who wore a Pirates uniform last season. Bell had proven that he was half a player, and even that half had only been productive for short periods of time.
I know nothing about either pitcher coming back in the trade but I do wish they were both ready to play in the major leagues. After these past six seasons, we've waited long enough to root for a competitive team.
This is not unlike what Huntington faced and what his plan was. It's not the wrong plan, it just has to be done better than Huntington did it.
Bell wasn't going to be here by the time a competitive roster is built but, then again, neither will almost all of the other players who wore a Pirates uniform last season. Bell had proven that he was half a player, and even that half had only been productive for short periods of time.
I know nothing about either pitcher coming back in the trade but I do wish they were both ready to play in the major leagues. After these past six seasons, we've waited long enough to root for a competitive team.
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Bobster21
Josh Bell to Nats
685D4A4A41784A4A41464A2F0 wrote: Will they be pitching for the Pirates in 2021? I'll ignore the personal attack. I don't recall doing that. Doesn't help to make a point.
Actually Crowe might be in the 2021 rotation. And if you consider it a personal attack when your constant posting patterns are pointed out, then maybe the problem is you. And just how effective do you think you are in making a point when you repeat the same mantra in every single post regardless of whether the facts are yet known? Your act has gotten old fast.
Actually Crowe might be in the 2021 rotation. And if you consider it a personal attack when your constant posting patterns are pointed out, then maybe the problem is you. And just how effective do you think you are in making a point when you repeat the same mantra in every single post regardless of whether the facts are yet known? Your act has gotten old fast.
Josh Bell to Nats
073225252E1725252E2925400 wrote: Will they be pitching for the Pirates in 2021? I'll ignore the personal attack. I don't recall doing that. Doesn't help to make a point.
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The can kickers are out ion full force tonight. Many have already punted away 2021, and one guy on here has punted away 2022 and is pointing to 2023. I wonder if we could get someone to punt away 2023 and 2024 and point to 2025 as our year. The can has been kicked down the road to a dirt path, then it is being kicked down the dirt path and we will need a machete to kick it any further.
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The can kickers are out ion full force tonight. Many have already punted away 2021, and one guy on here has punted away 2022 and is pointing to 2023. I wonder if we could get someone to punt away 2023 and 2024 and point to 2025 as our year. The can has been kicked down the road to a dirt path, then it is being kicked down the dirt path and we will need a machete to kick it any further.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Josh Bell to Nats
If the guy pitches for us in 2021, then we got a guy with a high ERA in return for a guy who did something for us.
If he doesn't pitch for us in 2021, we got nothing to make the team better.
2022 will matter to me after the 2021 season.
Punting is of no value. Saving BOB's money is of no value.
Personal attacks are of no value.
I have no idea what future moves will be made, but I'll guess and say that I hope that the offense will be addressed at some point. I hope that the 2021 season is addressed.
If he doesn't pitch for us in 2021, we got nothing to make the team better.
2022 will matter to me after the 2021 season.
Punting is of no value. Saving BOB's money is of no value.
Personal attacks are of no value.
I have no idea what future moves will be made, but I'll guess and say that I hope that the offense will be addressed at some point. I hope that the 2021 season is addressed.
Josh Bell to Nats
Josh Bell seemed like a really nice guy. Also good to see the father - son relationship.
That said, when it comes to his skills on the field, I will not miss Bell. Weak glove, nonexistent arm (I only remembering him making one good 3-6-3 double-play last year), and for a player who was supposed to be a big bat, his went missing for too many long stretches of time. Bell employed a number of batting stances during his time in Pittsburgh and he rarely seemed to find one approach that he was happy with; the exception being the tear he went on in the first half or so in 2019. Last year's uptick in strike-outs (swings and misses) was particularly disconcerting.
Bell, like Alvarez before him, is another highly touted hitter who didn't have a good career in Pittsburgh. Both showed some real flashes of power, unfortunately, it was mostly flashes instead of more consistency.
I get how many will simply view this trade as a salary dump, but these are the type of moves BC needs to make to create any hope of building a future winner. Crowe is likely no great shakes, but maybe he can perform like Williams did and give them 2 seasons or so of decent pitching before hitters begin to regularly pummel him. Yean is rated the better prospect, but like many young pitchers with promise, we may never see him make it to PNC, but that is the type of risk that the Pirates need to take.
That said, when it comes to his skills on the field, I will not miss Bell. Weak glove, nonexistent arm (I only remembering him making one good 3-6-3 double-play last year), and for a player who was supposed to be a big bat, his went missing for too many long stretches of time. Bell employed a number of batting stances during his time in Pittsburgh and he rarely seemed to find one approach that he was happy with; the exception being the tear he went on in the first half or so in 2019. Last year's uptick in strike-outs (swings and misses) was particularly disconcerting.
Bell, like Alvarez before him, is another highly touted hitter who didn't have a good career in Pittsburgh. Both showed some real flashes of power, unfortunately, it was mostly flashes instead of more consistency.
I get how many will simply view this trade as a salary dump, but these are the type of moves BC needs to make to create any hope of building a future winner. Crowe is likely no great shakes, but maybe he can perform like Williams did and give them 2 seasons or so of decent pitching before hitters begin to regularly pummel him. Yean is rated the better prospect, but like many young pitchers with promise, we may never see him make it to PNC, but that is the type of risk that the Pirates need to take.