Archer as closer

Osushawn · Post by **Osushawn** » Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:46 pm

Has this been discussed? Seems like a good fit as he could give you more than an inning and pitch count wouldn’t matter at that point? Leave kela as the setup and crick the 6/7th inning guy if needed.

Bobster21 · Post by **Bobster21** » Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:04 pm

162A2C2A31382E37590 wrote: Has this been discussed? Seems like a good fit as he could give you more than an inning and pitch count wouldn’t matter at that point? Leave kela as the setup and crick the 6/7th inning guy if needed.
I hesitate to count on Crick for any significant role. 2018 was very good but it was the only season in his professional career when he did not have very poor control. Difficulty throwing strikes has plagued him at every minor league level and in his MLB career except for 2018. Let's see what a new pitching coach can do with him but I wouldn't even consider him a lock for the staff much less a 6-7th inning guy.

SammyKhalifa · Post by **SammyKhalifa** » Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:18 pm

Good thought, but (and I'm probably the only one) I haven't lost hope in him as going back to being a decent starter yet.

Bobster21 · Post by **Bobster21** » Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:15 pm

The Pirates have Archer for 6.1 mil in 2020 and after that it's either 11 mil for 2021 or a $250,000 buyout. In other words, they will have Archer for 1 year or less. They won't be competitive during that time so it might be more advisable to be grooming one or more young relievers for the closer role rather than Archer, who won't be around very long anyway. Their biggest pitching need during the time they have left with Archer is in the rotation. Archer is no better than a #4 but they have nothing else and would only have to find another sub par starter to replace him if he was in the BP. So I think his greatest value to them (such that it is) is to fill a spot in the rotation and they can work on getting someone up to speed as a closer who they expect to be around awhile.

PMike · Post by **PMike** » Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:39 pm

Archer has elite stuff. He has elite strikeout numbers. He has terrible control on 1 out of 5 pitches. I think you give the new pitching coach (whoever that will be) a good shot with Archer. Best case scenario is that he has a great first half and you trade him at the trade deadline to try and salvage some of the horrible trade.

notes34 · Post by **notes34** » Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:54 pm

43717D7D695B78717C797671100 wrote: Good thought, but (and I'm probably the only one) I haven't lost hope in him as going back to being a decent starter yet.
You aren't the only one. I just look at his stuff and think the results should be so much better.

DemDog · Post by **DemDog** » Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:28 pm

The jury is still out for me on Archer. I want to see how a new PC will help him. My hope is that he will become more than a #4 starter earlier in the season who can be flipped for a middling prospect or failed starter who could be groomed as a closer.

SCBucco · Post by **SCBucco** » Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:36 pm

I want to see him with another pitching coach. Searage had some degree of success with enigmatic pitchers. AJB, Liriano and such. We need Archer as a starter because the options out there, unless Nutting gives Cherrington a bone or two, are garbage. I don't want to see Kuhl and the Gang in the rotation, or Holmes or Brault, or whoever else.

I would keep Kela as the closer tbh. Let him build up a resume and then dump him at the TDL for a better return.

SyrBucco · Post by **SyrBucco** » Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:23 pm

6E7357555B3E0 wrote: Archer has elite stuff. He has elite strikeout numbers. He has terrible control on 1 out of 5 pitches. I think you give the new pitching coach (whoever that will be) a good shot with Archer. Best case scenario is that he has a great first half and you trade him at the trade deadline to try and salvage some of the horrible trade.
I'm with you, Mike. I think we need to know if 2019's pitching woes, in general, were largely the result of coaching and/or organizational direction.

MaineBucs · Post by **MaineBucs** » Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:57 pm

In looking at the current roster, I generally align with most of the comments.

Archer should remain in the rotation. The Bucs have few alternatives and if he rebounds, he will have greater trade value at the break. Like others, gotta hope that a new pitching coach can help bring out his best.

I have generally advocated that the Pirates explore trading Kela. He remains a low cost reliever (for other teams) and could have considerable upside. That said, the Bucs should not give him away, they should only trade him for an acceptable return. There may be value in inserting him into the closer position and see if he performs. If he does, he could yield a decent return at the break.

The quality of next year's pen likely lies with a return to health for both Kuhl and Santana and the hopeful return of Burdi. A bullpen of Kela, Santana, Rodriguez, Kuhl, Burdi, Crick and Brault could be decent. If Kela is dealt during the season, perhaps Santana would be ready to step into the closer role. He was pitching well before the injury.