557875646372652526170 wrote: Here is my list:
I begin with the player's who have their # retired and don't have some kind of statue around PNC.
#1 Billy Meyer - Manager
#11 Paul Waner - OF
#20 Pie Traynor - 3B
#40 Danny Murtaugh - Manager
Then I add the following
Arky Vaughn - SS, 2B
Max Carey - OF
Dick Groat - SS
Manny Sanguillen - C
Ginger Beaumont - CF
Barry Bonds - LF
Dave Parker - RF
Andrew McCutchen - CF
Wilbur Cooper - RP
Bob Friend - RP
John Candelaria - LP
Bob Veale - LP
Steve Blass - RP
ElRoy Leon Face - RP
Doug Drabek - SP
Kent Tekulve - RP
That’s quite a list Possum
Maybe instead of using retired numbers, they should call it the Pirate Hall of Fame
I like the list that Possum posted, and it is a good idea to name it the Pirates Hall of Fame. I think Vern Law, and Lloyd Waner should be candidates as well.
Thanks fjk for jogging my memory. I saw Vern Law play most of his career. It is a shame that his arm gave out on him. In this day, Vern could have had TJ surgery and maybe played a few more years. And Paul Waner, you bet he should be on the list.
If we call it a HOF what do we do with the Clemente, Stargell, Maz, Honus Wagner and Kiner statues? Perhaps we just find a place at PNC Park and install plaques on a wall for all fans to see for FREE! That would be something!
I believe it was rotator cuff surgery that Law needed.
Thanks for clearing up just what Vern's problem was. He still would have been able to extend his career with today's surgical techniques.
Pirate Plaza-Retired Numbers
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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Bobster21
Pirate Plaza-Retired Numbers
715058715A52350 wrote: Here is my list:
I begin with the player's who have their # retired and don't have some kind of statue around PNC.
#1 Billy Meyer - Manager
#11 Paul Waner - OF
#20 Pie Traynor - 3B
#40 Danny Murtaugh - Manager
Then I add the following
Arky Vaughn - SS, 2B
Max Carey - OF
Dick Groat - SS
Manny Sanguillen - C
Ginger Beaumont - CF
Barry Bonds - LF
Dave Parker - RF
Andrew McCutchen - CF
Wilbur Cooper - RP
Bob Friend - RP
John Candelaria - LP
Bob Veale - LP
Steve Blass - RP
ElRoy Leon Face - RP
Doug Drabek - SP
Kent Tekulve - RP
That’s quite a list Possum
Maybe instead of using retired numbers, they should call it the Pirate Hall of Fame
I like the list that Possum posted, and it is a good idea to name it the Pirates Hall of Fame. I think Vern Law, and Lloyd Waner should be candidates as well.
Thanks fjk for jogging my memory. I saw Vern Law play most of his career. It is a shame that his arm gave out on him. In this day, Vern could have had TJ surgery and maybe played a few more years. And Paul Waner, you bet he should be on the list.
If we call it a HOF what do we do with the Clemente, Stargell, Maz, Honus Wagner and Kiner statues? Perhaps we just find a place at PNC Park and install plaques on a wall for all fans to see for FREE! That would be something!
I believe it was rotator cuff surgery that Law needed.
Thanks for clearing up just what Vern's problem was. He still would have been able to extend his career with today's surgical techniques.
Yes, with today's surgical techniques, he might have lost a year at most. Some rotator cuff tears heal without surgery. I had surgery to repair the left and the right healed on it's own. Law's healed but it took years before he had another great season (1965) while missing a great deal of 1961-63 and being pretty ordinary in his 1st full year back in 64. I guess back then it wasn't as easy to diagnose and that surgery was not commonplace. But Law was great 1959, 60 and 65 and if he had pitched the same way in the years in between he might have had HOF stats.
I begin with the player's who have their # retired and don't have some kind of statue around PNC.
#1 Billy Meyer - Manager
#11 Paul Waner - OF
#20 Pie Traynor - 3B
#40 Danny Murtaugh - Manager
Then I add the following
Arky Vaughn - SS, 2B
Max Carey - OF
Dick Groat - SS
Manny Sanguillen - C
Ginger Beaumont - CF
Barry Bonds - LF
Dave Parker - RF
Andrew McCutchen - CF
Wilbur Cooper - RP
Bob Friend - RP
John Candelaria - LP
Bob Veale - LP
Steve Blass - RP
ElRoy Leon Face - RP
Doug Drabek - SP
Kent Tekulve - RP
That’s quite a list Possum
Maybe instead of using retired numbers, they should call it the Pirate Hall of Fame
I like the list that Possum posted, and it is a good idea to name it the Pirates Hall of Fame. I think Vern Law, and Lloyd Waner should be candidates as well.
Thanks fjk for jogging my memory. I saw Vern Law play most of his career. It is a shame that his arm gave out on him. In this day, Vern could have had TJ surgery and maybe played a few more years. And Paul Waner, you bet he should be on the list.
If we call it a HOF what do we do with the Clemente, Stargell, Maz, Honus Wagner and Kiner statues? Perhaps we just find a place at PNC Park and install plaques on a wall for all fans to see for FREE! That would be something!
I believe it was rotator cuff surgery that Law needed.
Thanks for clearing up just what Vern's problem was. He still would have been able to extend his career with today's surgical techniques.
Yes, with today's surgical techniques, he might have lost a year at most. Some rotator cuff tears heal without surgery. I had surgery to repair the left and the right healed on it's own. Law's healed but it took years before he had another great season (1965) while missing a great deal of 1961-63 and being pretty ordinary in his 1st full year back in 64. I guess back then it wasn't as easy to diagnose and that surgery was not commonplace. But Law was great 1959, 60 and 65 and if he had pitched the same way in the years in between he might have had HOF stats.
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Bobster21
Pirate Plaza-Retired Numbers
1B3D3C2B3D2D5E0 wrote: Here is my list:
I begin with the player's who have their # retired and don't have some kind of statue around PNC.
#1 Billy Meyer - Manager
#11 Paul Waner - OF
#20 Pie Traynor - 3B
#40 Danny Murtaugh - Manager
Then I add the following
Arky Vaughn - SS, 2B
Max Carey - OF
Dick Groat - SS
Manny Sanguillen - C
Ginger Beaumont - CF
Barry Bonds - LF
Dave Parker - RF
Andrew McCutchen - CF
Wilbur Cooper - RP
Bob Friend - RP
John Candelaria - LP
Bob Veale - LP
Steve Blass - RP
ElRoy Leon Face - RP
Doug Drabek - SP
Kent Tekulve - RP
That’s quite a list Possum
Maybe instead of using retired numbers, they should call it the Pirate Hall of Fame
I like the list that Possum posted, and it is a good idea to name it the Pirates Hall of Fame. I think Vern Law, and Lloyd Waner should be candidates as well.
Thanks fjk for jogging my memory. I saw Vern Law play most of his career. It is a shame that his arm gave out on him. In this day, Vern could have had TJ surgery and maybe played a few more years. And Paul Waner, you bet he should be on the list.
If we call it a HOF what do we do with the Clemente, Stargell, Maz, Honus Wagner and Kiner statues? Perhaps we just find a place at PNC Park and install plaques on a wall for all fans to see for FREE! That would be something!
I don't know if it is true but my Dad used to say that Law pitched in an extra inning game that destroyed his arm. Maybe pitched 18 innings in a day. I will also say that Christy Mathewson (in his book Pitching in a Pinch) talked about saving pitches for better batters and about batters being yellow (I guess afraid about inside pitches). Anyway, he evaluated the opposition and was prepared to go 9. I think at the time Vernon Law pitched he would have had a similar attitude even though it was 50 years later.
I wonder if your father might have been mixing up Law and Tom Cheney since both were Pirates in 1960 and both pitched an extraordinarily long game during their careers. Cheney went 16 innings with Washington in 1962 and struck out 21 batters. He pitched very well the following year (2.71 ERA) but then had career ending arm problems.
I begin with the player's who have their # retired and don't have some kind of statue around PNC.
#1 Billy Meyer - Manager
#11 Paul Waner - OF
#20 Pie Traynor - 3B
#40 Danny Murtaugh - Manager
Then I add the following
Arky Vaughn - SS, 2B
Max Carey - OF
Dick Groat - SS
Manny Sanguillen - C
Ginger Beaumont - CF
Barry Bonds - LF
Dave Parker - RF
Andrew McCutchen - CF
Wilbur Cooper - RP
Bob Friend - RP
John Candelaria - LP
Bob Veale - LP
Steve Blass - RP
ElRoy Leon Face - RP
Doug Drabek - SP
Kent Tekulve - RP
That’s quite a list Possum
Maybe instead of using retired numbers, they should call it the Pirate Hall of Fame
I like the list that Possum posted, and it is a good idea to name it the Pirates Hall of Fame. I think Vern Law, and Lloyd Waner should be candidates as well.
Thanks fjk for jogging my memory. I saw Vern Law play most of his career. It is a shame that his arm gave out on him. In this day, Vern could have had TJ surgery and maybe played a few more years. And Paul Waner, you bet he should be on the list.
If we call it a HOF what do we do with the Clemente, Stargell, Maz, Honus Wagner and Kiner statues? Perhaps we just find a place at PNC Park and install plaques on a wall for all fans to see for FREE! That would be something!
I don't know if it is true but my Dad used to say that Law pitched in an extra inning game that destroyed his arm. Maybe pitched 18 innings in a day. I will also say that Christy Mathewson (in his book Pitching in a Pinch) talked about saving pitches for better batters and about batters being yellow (I guess afraid about inside pitches). Anyway, he evaluated the opposition and was prepared to go 9. I think at the time Vernon Law pitched he would have had a similar attitude even though it was 50 years later.
I wonder if your father might have been mixing up Law and Tom Cheney since both were Pirates in 1960 and both pitched an extraordinarily long game during their careers. Cheney went 16 innings with Washington in 1962 and struck out 21 batters. He pitched very well the following year (2.71 ERA) but then had career ending arm problems.
Pirate Plaza-Retired Numbers
745954454253440407360 wrote: Here is my list:
I begin with the player's who have their # retired and don't have some kind of statue around PNC.
#1 Billy Meyer - Manager
#11 Paul Waner - OF
#20 Pie Traynor - 3B
#40 Danny Murtaugh - Manager
Then I add the following
Arky Vaughn - SS, 2B
Max Carey - OF
Dick Groat - SS
Manny Sanguillen - C
Ginger Beaumont - CF
Barry Bonds - LF
Dave Parker - RF
Andrew McCutchen - CF
Wilbur Cooper - RP
Bob Friend - RP
John Candelaria - LP
Bob Veale - LP
Steve Blass - RP
ElRoy Leon Face - RP
Doug Drabek - SP
Kent Tekulve - RP
That’s quite a list Possum
Maybe instead of using retired numbers, they should call it the Pirate Hall of Fame
I like the list that Possum posted, and it is a good idea to name it the Pirates Hall of Fame. I think Vern Law, and Lloyd Waner should be candidates as well.
Thanks fjk for jogging my memory. I saw Vern Law play most of his career. It is a shame that his arm gave out on him. In this day, Vern could have had TJ surgery and maybe played a few more years. And Paul Waner, you bet he should be on the list.
If we call it a HOF what do we do with the Clemente, Stargell, Maz, Honus Wagner and Kiner statues? Perhaps we just find a place at PNC Park and install plaques on a wall for all fans to see for FREE! That would be something!
I don't know if it is true but my Dad used to say that Law pitched in an extra inning game that destroyed his arm. Maybe pitched 18 innings in a day. I will also say that Christy Mathewson (in his book Pitching in a Pinch) talked about saving pitches for better batters and about batters being yellow (I guess afraid about inside pitches). Anyway, he evaluated the opposition and was prepared to go 9. I think at the time Vernon Law pitched he would have had a similar attitude even though it was 50 years later.
I wonder if your father might have been mixing up Law and Tom Cheney since both were Pirates in 1960 and both pitched an extraordinarily long game during their careers. Cheney went 16 innings with Washington in 1962 and struck out 21 batters. He pitched very well the following year (2.71 ERA) but then had career ending arm problems.
could be, and I may be mixed up on what he said too. He probably told me this when I was ten or 11. I looked at Law's game logs for a couple seasons just for fun and he had stretches of where he put together 5 or 6 straight games of going 9 innings. That may not have been unusual for the times. I doubt if I even saw him pitch on television since there weren't many games on back in those days.
I begin with the player's who have their # retired and don't have some kind of statue around PNC.
#1 Billy Meyer - Manager
#11 Paul Waner - OF
#20 Pie Traynor - 3B
#40 Danny Murtaugh - Manager
Then I add the following
Arky Vaughn - SS, 2B
Max Carey - OF
Dick Groat - SS
Manny Sanguillen - C
Ginger Beaumont - CF
Barry Bonds - LF
Dave Parker - RF
Andrew McCutchen - CF
Wilbur Cooper - RP
Bob Friend - RP
John Candelaria - LP
Bob Veale - LP
Steve Blass - RP
ElRoy Leon Face - RP
Doug Drabek - SP
Kent Tekulve - RP
That’s quite a list Possum
Maybe instead of using retired numbers, they should call it the Pirate Hall of Fame
I like the list that Possum posted, and it is a good idea to name it the Pirates Hall of Fame. I think Vern Law, and Lloyd Waner should be candidates as well.
Thanks fjk for jogging my memory. I saw Vern Law play most of his career. It is a shame that his arm gave out on him. In this day, Vern could have had TJ surgery and maybe played a few more years. And Paul Waner, you bet he should be on the list.
If we call it a HOF what do we do with the Clemente, Stargell, Maz, Honus Wagner and Kiner statues? Perhaps we just find a place at PNC Park and install plaques on a wall for all fans to see for FREE! That would be something!
I don't know if it is true but my Dad used to say that Law pitched in an extra inning game that destroyed his arm. Maybe pitched 18 innings in a day. I will also say that Christy Mathewson (in his book Pitching in a Pinch) talked about saving pitches for better batters and about batters being yellow (I guess afraid about inside pitches). Anyway, he evaluated the opposition and was prepared to go 9. I think at the time Vernon Law pitched he would have had a similar attitude even though it was 50 years later.
I wonder if your father might have been mixing up Law and Tom Cheney since both were Pirates in 1960 and both pitched an extraordinarily long game during their careers. Cheney went 16 innings with Washington in 1962 and struck out 21 batters. He pitched very well the following year (2.71 ERA) but then had career ending arm problems.
could be, and I may be mixed up on what he said too. He probably told me this when I was ten or 11. I looked at Law's game logs for a couple seasons just for fun and he had stretches of where he put together 5 or 6 straight games of going 9 innings. That may not have been unusual for the times. I doubt if I even saw him pitch on television since there weren't many games on back in those days.
Pirate Plaza-Retired Numbers
71425E5F5C54625F4458434455595E300 wrote: Of course, a lot of guys didn't have numbers. Here's some earlier guys who were pretty good:
Babe Adams (natch)
Sam Leever
Deacon Phillippe
Ray Kremer
Rip Sewell
Jake Beckley
Fred Clarke
Tommy Leach
Beat me to the punch with Adams. I was going to add both him and Clarke.
I think it is a good thing to honor those players who spent the majority of their careers in Pittsburgh. I know the Phillies do it out here, even though some guys they nominate kind of make you scratch your head...but it is good for the fans as it allows them to let their minds go back to a special player or two from their childhood, or rabid fandom days. Or, in some cases, names from the books they have read about their favorite team.
I remember when I was in grade school, I had a book about the National League, encompassing all of the teams from the formation of the league. It went back into the 1880's, with some colorful names like St. Louis owner Chris Van DerAhe, and of course Barney Dreyfuss. The Bucs, when they 'pirated' players like Wagner from the old Louisville franchise, thus earning the name Pirates. I first read about Babe Adams there. I read that book until it fell apart. It even covered the first few years of the Mets and Colt 45's, so you're talking around 1966 or 67 when I got it. It had a yellow hardback cover and a pennant down the left side of the cover with each teams name on it. Forgot who wrote it.
Found the book:
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/YHoAAOSw ... s-l640.jpg
Babe Adams (natch)
Sam Leever
Deacon Phillippe
Ray Kremer
Rip Sewell
Jake Beckley
Fred Clarke
Tommy Leach
Beat me to the punch with Adams. I was going to add both him and Clarke.
I think it is a good thing to honor those players who spent the majority of their careers in Pittsburgh. I know the Phillies do it out here, even though some guys they nominate kind of make you scratch your head...but it is good for the fans as it allows them to let their minds go back to a special player or two from their childhood, or rabid fandom days. Or, in some cases, names from the books they have read about their favorite team.
I remember when I was in grade school, I had a book about the National League, encompassing all of the teams from the formation of the league. It went back into the 1880's, with some colorful names like St. Louis owner Chris Van DerAhe, and of course Barney Dreyfuss. The Bucs, when they 'pirated' players like Wagner from the old Louisville franchise, thus earning the name Pirates. I first read about Babe Adams there. I read that book until it fell apart. It even covered the first few years of the Mets and Colt 45's, so you're talking around 1966 or 67 when I got it. It had a yellow hardback cover and a pennant down the left side of the cover with each teams name on it. Forgot who wrote it.
Found the book:
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/YHoAAOSw ... s-l640.jpg
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JollyRoger
- Posts: 1469
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:31 pm
Pirate Plaza-Retired Numbers
163D2A255C0 wrote: Of course, a lot of guys didn't have numbers. Here's some earlier guys who were pretty good:
Babe Adams (natch)
Sam Leever
Deacon Phillippe
Ray Kremer
Rip Sewell
Jake Beckley
Fred Clarke
Tommy Leach
Beat me to the punch with Adams. I was going to add both him and Clarke.
I think it is a good thing to honor those players who spent the majority of their careers in Pittsburgh. I know the Phillies do it out here, even though some guys they nominate kind of make you scratch your head...but it is good for the fans as it allows them to let their minds go back to a special player or two from their childhood, or rabid fandom days. Or, in some cases, names from the books they have read about their favorite team.
I remember when I was in grade school, I had a book about the National League, encompassing all of the teams from the formation of the league. It went back into the 1880's, with some colorful names like St. Louis owner Chris Van DerAhe, and of course Barney Dreyfuss. The Bucs, when they 'pirated' players like Wagner from the old Louisville franchise, thus earning the name Pirates. I first read about Babe Adams there. I read that book until it fell apart. It even covered the first few years of the Mets and Colt 45's, so you're talking around 1966 or 67 when I got it. It had a yellow hardback cover and a pennant down the left side of the cover with each teams name on it. Forgot who wrote it.
Thanks for sharing
Babe Adams (natch)
Sam Leever
Deacon Phillippe
Ray Kremer
Rip Sewell
Jake Beckley
Fred Clarke
Tommy Leach
Beat me to the punch with Adams. I was going to add both him and Clarke.
I think it is a good thing to honor those players who spent the majority of their careers in Pittsburgh. I know the Phillies do it out here, even though some guys they nominate kind of make you scratch your head...but it is good for the fans as it allows them to let their minds go back to a special player or two from their childhood, or rabid fandom days. Or, in some cases, names from the books they have read about their favorite team.
I remember when I was in grade school, I had a book about the National League, encompassing all of the teams from the formation of the league. It went back into the 1880's, with some colorful names like St. Louis owner Chris Van DerAhe, and of course Barney Dreyfuss. The Bucs, when they 'pirated' players like Wagner from the old Louisville franchise, thus earning the name Pirates. I first read about Babe Adams there. I read that book until it fell apart. It even covered the first few years of the Mets and Colt 45's, so you're talking around 1966 or 67 when I got it. It had a yellow hardback cover and a pennant down the left side of the cover with each teams name on it. Forgot who wrote it.
Thanks for sharing
Pirate Plaza-Retired Numbers
What about Kendall? No questioning whether Sanguillen is worthy, Kendall has better numbers over 44 fewer games as a Pirate. Manny has rings and is WAY cooler, but should they consider Jason?
Pirate Plaza-Retired Numbers
52557077716C70711F0 wrote: What about Kendall? No questioning whether Sanguillen is worthy, Kendall has better numbers over 44 fewer games as a Pirate. Manny has rings and is WAY cooler, but should they consider Jason?
Yeah, I would have to consider him, although he was never one of my favorites. Good numbers for a lousy team during his career here.
Yeah, I would have to consider him, although he was never one of my favorites. Good numbers for a lousy team during his career here.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Pirate Plaza-Retired Numbers
These guys aren't all-time great. All they are is great because our current guys are so bad.
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Bobster21
Pirate Plaza-Retired Numbers
5C697E7E754C7E7E75727E1B0 wrote: These guys aren't all-time great. All they are is great because our current guys are so bad.
I don't know which players you are referring to but it's a valid point to consider. The Bucs have had great players in the past and hopefully the franchise survives to once again thrive after Nutting (although that could be decades from now). I wouldn't want future fans to look at players whose numbers were retired or were put in a Pirate HOF simply because they stood out in an era when few stood out, as opposed to being great in their own right.
I don't know which players you are referring to but it's a valid point to consider. The Bucs have had great players in the past and hopefully the franchise survives to once again thrive after Nutting (although that could be decades from now). I wouldn't want future fans to look at players whose numbers were retired or were put in a Pirate HOF simply because they stood out in an era when few stood out, as opposed to being great in their own right.