2022 CBA

[mouse]

It has to be frustrating to other teams to see what the Pirates are paying to put a team on the field. If they can get by with so little, why do they need revenue sharing? If they have a payroll that is 40% of league average, maybe they should get 40% of the revenue sharing amount.

[fjk090852-7]

The initial proposal is a 100 million dollar floor. As a fan it is about time that there is discussion about a floor. This could even make Bob Nutting think about selling, or even adding investors.

[WildwoodDave2]

202C2D767F767E73746B71460 wrote: The initial proposal is a 100 million dollar floor. As a fan it is about time that there is discussion about a floor. This could even make Bob Nutting think about selling, or even  adding investors.
We can only hope

[Bobster21]

4C796E6E655C6E6E65626E0B0 wrote: I just saw a small snippet that the Union and Management met early this week and there was discussion about taxing teams that exceeded payroll limits, as well as a salary minimum. A salary minimum, or floor would be very beneficial for baseball. Teams could no longer spend on payroll at very small amounts. Teams like the Pirates would have to spend by either signing free agents, or better yet,retain the players that they have developed. The negotiations are probably at the beginning stages, but I hope that as they continue to negotiate some type of salary minimum remains on the table. In my opinion baseball needs some type of payroll minimum.


Technically, they do.  Multiply 25 x the minimum, and that's the current floor. 



I agree in principle that some form of a floor is needed, but I've got to wonder how they'd define one.  There's so many variables to consider.  Teams have different revenues and other expenses, so I can see this being very difficult to implement.  The lawyers will have a field day coming up with the wording.  And, teams will pay lawyers to find "legal" ways to find loopholes.  The legal fees will be less than the money they'll save by having to pay the full amount.


Also, you can't make free agents sign with an organization. And you can't make players accept extensions to stay longer than they have to. Let's say the Pirates must add 15 million to their payroll to meet the minimum. No productive free agents want to sign with them because they are getting as good or better offers from teams with a better chance to win a WS. And the players under the Pirates control want to leave for the same reason and won't sign extensions. So they would have to overpay second and third tier FAs and give raises to players to meet the minimum but the higher payroll doesn't translate to an increase in talent. In principal the floor seems like a good idea but it might not have the desired effect to make teams competitive.

[2drfischer@gmail.c]

3935346F666F676A6D72685F0 wrote: The initial proposal is a 100 million dollar floor. As a fan it is about time that there is discussion about a floor. This could even make Bob Nutting think about selling, or even  adding investors.


I'm all in favor of a floor, but a cap must come with it. If not, the big market teams, combined, can still sign multiple numbers of free agents and leave little left for the small clubs. If that happens, then franchises like the Pirates will have to overpay less-talented players just to meet the floor. That's not a good situation, either.



The simple solution, and the one that will lead to a more competitive league, will be one where the floor and ceiling are close together, like just $10 million apart. The big market clubs will fight against it, though.

[fjk090852-7]

437D7870637B7B705075627126140 wrote: The initial proposal is a 100 million dollar floor. As a fan it is about time that there is discussion about a floor. This could even make Bob Nutting think about selling, or even  adding investors.
We can only hope
I totally agree with you. I would think the Players Association would want some type of floor, since teams like the Pirates would be spending more money on players who are union members.

[GreenWeenie]

1C313C2D2A3B2C6C6F5E0 wrote: I just saw a small snippet that the Union and Management met early this week and there was discussion about taxing teams that exceeded payroll limits, as well as a salary minimum. A salary minimum, or floor would be very beneficial for baseball. Teams could no longer spend on payroll at very small amounts. Teams like the Pirates would have to spend by either signing free agents, or better yet,retain the players that they have developed. The negotiations are probably at the beginning stages, but I hope that as they continue to negotiate some type of salary minimum remains on the table. In my opinion baseball needs some type of payroll minimum.


Technically, they do.  Multiply 25 x the minimum, and that's the current floor. 



I agree in principle that some form of a floor is needed, but I've got to wonder how they'd define one.  There's so many variables to consider.  Teams have different revenues and other expenses, so I can see this being very difficult to implement.  The lawyers will have a field day coming up with the wording.  And, teams will pay lawyers to find "legal" ways to find loopholes.  The legal fees will be less than the money they'll save by having to pay the full amount.


Also, you can't make free agents sign with an organization. And you can't make players accept extensions to stay longer than they have to. Let's say the Pirates must add 15 million to their payroll to meet the minimum. No productive free agents want to sign with them because they are getting as good or better offers from teams with a better chance to win a WS. And the players under the Pirates control want to leave for the same reason and won't sign extensions. So they would have to overpay second and third tier FAs and give raises to players to meet the minimum but the higher payroll doesn't translate to an increase in talent. In principal the floor seems like a good idea but it might not have the desired effect to make teams competitive.


Can't force ANY player to sign.  Gerrit Cole wasn't staying on the ASTROS.  He SAH wasn't signing no matter what they or the Pirates would have dangled.



That's by no means a knock on The Burgh or Cole.  Everyone has preferences where we want to work.



However, a floor will at least allow the chance to keep more who would have been dumped. 



This isn't close to happening, but if it does happen, the lawyers will probably go over the scenarios.

.

[BenM]

655047474C7547474C4B47220 wrote: I just saw a small snippet that the Union and Management met early this week and there was discussion about taxing teams that exceeded payroll limits, as well as a salary minimum. A salary minimum, or floor would be very beneficial for baseball. Teams could no longer spend on payroll at very small amounts. Teams like the Pirates would have to spend by either signing free agents, or better yet,retain the players that they have developed. The negotiations are probably at the beginning stages, but I hope that as they continue to negotiate some type of salary minimum remains on the table. In my opinion baseball needs some type of payroll minimum.


Technically, they do.  Multiply 25 x the minimum, and that's the current floor. 



I agree in principle that some form of a floor is needed, but I've got to wonder how they'd define one.  There's so many variables to consider.  Teams have different revenues and other expenses, so I can see this being very difficult to implement.  The lawyers will have a field day coming up with the wording.  And, teams will pay lawyers to find "legal" ways to find loopholes.  The legal fees will be less than the money they'll save by having to pay the full amount.




There are pretty standard accounting practices that other leagues with salary cap/floor use. The NHL is far more dependent on local revenues than MLB and they figured it out.



Most leagues negotiate about a 50/50 split of the agreed upon revenues between the owners and players.

[Ecbucs]

684F44672A0 wrote: I just saw a small snippet that the Union and Management met early this week and there was discussion about taxing teams that exceeded payroll limits, as well as a salary minimum. A salary minimum, or floor would be very beneficial for baseball. Teams could no longer spend on payroll at very small amounts. Teams like the Pirates would have to spend by either signing free agents, or better yet,retain the players that they have developed. The negotiations are probably at the beginning stages, but I hope that as they continue to negotiate some type of salary minimum remains on the table. In my opinion baseball needs some type of payroll minimum.


Technically, they do.  Multiply 25 x the minimum, and that's the current floor. 



I agree in principle that some form of a floor is needed, but I've got to wonder how they'd define one.  There's so many variables to consider.  Teams have different revenues and other expenses, so I can see this being very difficult to implement.  The lawyers will have a field day coming up with the wording.  And, teams will pay lawyers to find "legal" ways to find loopholes.  The legal fees will be less than the money they'll save by having to pay the full amount.




There are pretty standard accounting practices that other leagues with salary cap/floor use. The NHL is far more dependent on local revenues than MLB and they figured it out.



Most leagues negotiate about a 50/50 split of the agreed upon revenues between the owners and players.




other leagues have negotiated that players receive x percentage of the revenue. I can't see an agreement without that being included somehow.



I'm sure someone has figured it out but would players being getting more or less if that system had been implemented this season?



The thing about a floor and a cap is that the owners get everything else and that isn't capped.

[GreenWeenie]

Other sports have revenue sharing, so it's easier for them to set a percentage and implement it. With MLB, 30 teams have their individual revenue. Given disparities and reluctance to release revenue information, I dont see the owners going about it the same way.