8th In a Series:
For starters, how many times did an incompetent pitcher hit for another marginally less competent pitcher last year? 10 times? I admit, I didn't keep track, but I hated it every time I saw it.
Sure, we had a Rule 5 pitcher. But Oviedo could've "carried a mop" as well as a few other guys who were on the staff. This season we should have a handful of guys with options to pull up and down without much dropoff in performance. Keep your best 11 and rotate the rest.
We need to platoon in a couple spots. I have already shown the statistical benefits of a Tucker/Chavis platoon at 2B, and a Gamel/maybe Allen platoon in RF. If the NL gets a DH, we will either use Tsutsugo or acquire someone for 1B/DH duty. We will need a backup catcher. Finally, we will need a spot to give MLB PT to the 6 or 7 AAA guys currently on our 40-man. Just as we would should rotate the back of the pitching staff, so should we try out these guys to see who's readiest for the Show.
If there's no DH, use that spot for a Rule 5 catcher. In any case we can't keep a Rule 5 position player without 5 spots on the bench.
We Need a 13-Man Pitching Staff with 5 Bench players
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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UtahPirate
- Posts: 582
- Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:36 pm
We Need a 13-Man Pitching Staff with 5 Bench players
Sorry Syracuse, I know this is not going down the argument you have sent up ... but I will admit I was caught off-guard by the de-emphasis of starting pitchers going 5 innings last year - throughout baseball. Five innings seems almost unattainable by most starters with four innings and two times through a lineup being the new standard, which means middle-relief guys who can go a couple of innings are suddenly at a premium. Plus, our starters struggled so often in the 4th inning last year.
So I've been wanting some discussion on how our venerable board might think this will affect the Bucs next year - and that at least aligns with your argument starter for what the staff and bench might look like.
As part of that, just a reminder that 35 pitchers (gasp) took the mound for us last year.
So I've been wanting some discussion on how our venerable board might think this will affect the Bucs next year - and that at least aligns with your argument starter for what the staff and bench might look like.
As part of that, just a reminder that 35 pitchers (gasp) took the mound for us last year.
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WildwoodDave2
We Need a 13-Man Pitching Staff with 5 Bench players
5273666F576E75667362070 wrote: Sorry Syracuse, I know this is not going down the argument you have sent up ... but I will admit I was caught off-guard by the de-emphasis of starting pitchers going 5 innings last year - throughout baseball. Five innings seems almost unattainable by most starters with four innings and two times through a lineup being the new standard, which means middle-relief guys who can go a couple of innings are suddenly at a premium. Plus, our starters struggled so often in the 4th inning last year.
So I've been wanting some discussion on how our venerable board might think this will affect the Bucs next year - and that at least aligns with your argument starter for what the staff and bench might look like.
As part of that, just a reminder that 35 pitchers (gasp) took the mound for us last year.
That term quality start has really changed over the years. Seven was usually the norm with a set-up man and a closer. Then it went to six.Now 5 innings. Things are extremely different from the days of Bob Gibson, Steve Carlton, Don Drysdale and John Smoltz. If the manager wanted to take Gibson out of the game, he would threaten to punch him in the mouth.
So I've been wanting some discussion on how our venerable board might think this will affect the Bucs next year - and that at least aligns with your argument starter for what the staff and bench might look like.
As part of that, just a reminder that 35 pitchers (gasp) took the mound for us last year.
That term quality start has really changed over the years. Seven was usually the norm with a set-up man and a closer. Then it went to six.Now 5 innings. Things are extremely different from the days of Bob Gibson, Steve Carlton, Don Drysdale and John Smoltz. If the manager wanted to take Gibson out of the game, he would threaten to punch him in the mouth.
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UtahPirate
- Posts: 582
- Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:36 pm
We Need a 13-Man Pitching Staff with 5 Bench players
7846434B5840404B6B4E594A1D2F0 wrote: Sorry Syracuse, I know this is not going down the argument you have sent up ... but I will admit I was caught off-guard by the de-emphasis of starting pitchers going 5 innings last year - throughout baseball. Five innings seems almost unattainable by most starters with four innings and two times through a lineup being the new standard, which means middle-relief guys who can go a couple of innings are suddenly at a premium. Plus, our starters struggled so often in the 4th inning last year.
So I've been wanting some discussion on how our venerable board might think this will affect the Bucs next year - and that at least aligns with your argument starter for what the staff and bench might look like.
As part of that, just a reminder that 35 pitchers (gasp) took the mound for us last year.
That term quality start has really changed over the years. Seven was usually the norm with a set-up man and a closer. Then it went to six.Now 5 innings. Things are extremely different from the days of Bob Gibson, Steve Carlton, Don Drysdale and John Smoltz. If the manager wanted to take Gibson out of the game, he would threaten to punch him in the mouth.
That's why I would get so frustrated that Jack Morris couldn't get in the Hall. He was such a throw-back pitcher and the writers started applying sabermetrics to his career and somehow determined he wasn't good enough. He dominated the 80's and threw what was probably the greatest pitched game in WS history in 91. He wanted the ball for all 9 and did an amazing amount of the time. He was finally voted in by the Modern Era Baseball Committee some of whom probably actually played the game instead of the writers who so often prove they don't get what it takes to actually play baseball.
Forgive the aside. Love to hear if we have enough arms to handle this new 4-inning approach.
So I've been wanting some discussion on how our venerable board might think this will affect the Bucs next year - and that at least aligns with your argument starter for what the staff and bench might look like.
As part of that, just a reminder that 35 pitchers (gasp) took the mound for us last year.
That term quality start has really changed over the years. Seven was usually the norm with a set-up man and a closer. Then it went to six.Now 5 innings. Things are extremely different from the days of Bob Gibson, Steve Carlton, Don Drysdale and John Smoltz. If the manager wanted to take Gibson out of the game, he would threaten to punch him in the mouth.
That's why I would get so frustrated that Jack Morris couldn't get in the Hall. He was such a throw-back pitcher and the writers started applying sabermetrics to his career and somehow determined he wasn't good enough. He dominated the 80's and threw what was probably the greatest pitched game in WS history in 91. He wanted the ball for all 9 and did an amazing amount of the time. He was finally voted in by the Modern Era Baseball Committee some of whom probably actually played the game instead of the writers who so often prove they don't get what it takes to actually play baseball.
Forgive the aside. Love to hear if we have enough arms to handle this new 4-inning approach.
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2drfischer@gmail.c
We Need a 13-Man Pitching Staff with 5 Bench players
5B7A6F665E677C6F7A6B0E0 wrote: Sorry Syracuse, I know this is not going down the argument you have sent up ... but I will admit I was caught off-guard by the de-emphasis of starting pitchers going 5 innings last year - throughout baseball. Five innings seems almost unattainable by most starters with four innings and two times through a lineup being the new standard, which means middle-relief guys who can go a couple of innings are suddenly at a premium. Plus, our starters struggled so often in the 4th inning last year.
So I've been wanting some discussion on how our venerable board might think this will affect the Bucs next year - and that at least aligns with your argument starter for what the staff and bench might look like.
As part of that, [highlight]just a reminder that 35 pitchers (gasp) took the mound for us last year.[/highlight]
Should any of us be surprised if the team uses 40 or more pitchers in 2022? As the staff is comprised now, Cherington's going to be rotating his starters (and relievers) between Pittsburgh, Indy, and even Altoona regularly. Is it possible we'll see 20-25 guys get a start? There were 17 who started at least one game last year. With the losing, the injuries (real and imagined), the trades, and the releasing of pitchers, it's going to be tough to remember who all of these guys are.
So I've been wanting some discussion on how our venerable board might think this will affect the Bucs next year - and that at least aligns with your argument starter for what the staff and bench might look like.
As part of that, [highlight]just a reminder that 35 pitchers (gasp) took the mound for us last year.[/highlight]
Should any of us be surprised if the team uses 40 or more pitchers in 2022? As the staff is comprised now, Cherington's going to be rotating his starters (and relievers) between Pittsburgh, Indy, and even Altoona regularly. Is it possible we'll see 20-25 guys get a start? There were 17 who started at least one game last year. With the losing, the injuries (real and imagined), the trades, and the releasing of pitchers, it's going to be tough to remember who all of these guys are.
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WildwoodDave2
We Need a 13-Man Pitching Staff with 5 Bench players
7B2D3B2F203A2A212C3B092E24282025672A490 wrote: Sorry Syracuse, I know this is not going down the argument you have sent up ... but I will admit I was caught off-guard by the de-emphasis of starting pitchers going 5 innings last year - throughout baseball. Five innings seems almost unattainable by most starters with four innings and two times through a lineup being the new standard, which means middle-relief guys who can go a couple of innings are suddenly at a premium. Plus, our starters struggled so often in the 4th inning last year.
So I've been wanting some discussion on how our venerable board might think this will affect the Bucs next year - and that at least aligns with your argument starter for what the staff and bench might look like.
As part of that, [highlight]just a reminder that 35 pitchers (gasp) took the mound for us last year.[/highlight]
Should any of us be surprised if the team uses 40 or more pitchers in 2022? As the staff is comprised now, Cherington's going to be rotating his starters (and relievers) between Pittsburgh, Indy, and even Altoona regularly. Is it possible we'll see 20-25 guys get a start? There were 17 who started at least one game last year. With the losing, the injuries (real and imagined), the trades, and the releasing of pitchers, it's going to be tough to remember who all of these guys are.
I just read that between 1948-1965, Phillies pitcher Robin Roberts
pitched 305 complete games. IN 1953 he pitched 33 complete games with a 2.75 ERA. Wonder how much he would make today?
So I've been wanting some discussion on how our venerable board might think this will affect the Bucs next year - and that at least aligns with your argument starter for what the staff and bench might look like.
As part of that, [highlight]just a reminder that 35 pitchers (gasp) took the mound for us last year.[/highlight]
Should any of us be surprised if the team uses 40 or more pitchers in 2022? As the staff is comprised now, Cherington's going to be rotating his starters (and relievers) between Pittsburgh, Indy, and even Altoona regularly. Is it possible we'll see 20-25 guys get a start? There were 17 who started at least one game last year. With the losing, the injuries (real and imagined), the trades, and the releasing of pitchers, it's going to be tough to remember who all of these guys are.
I just read that between 1948-1965, Phillies pitcher Robin Roberts
pitched 305 complete games. IN 1953 he pitched 33 complete games with a 2.75 ERA. Wonder how much he would make today?
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WildwoodDave2
We Need a 13-Man Pitching Staff with 5 Bench players
0D33363E2D35353E1E3B2C3F685A0 wrote: Sorry Syracuse, I know this is not going down the argument you have sent up ... but I will admit I was caught off-guard by the de-emphasis of starting pitchers going 5 innings last year - throughout baseball. Five innings seems almost unattainable by most starters with four innings and two times through a lineup being the new standard, which means middle-relief guys who can go a couple of innings are suddenly at a premium. Plus, our starters struggled so often in the 4th inning last year.
So I've been wanting some discussion on how our venerable board might think this will affect the Bucs next year - and that at least aligns with your argument starter for what the staff and bench might look like.
As part of that, [highlight]just a reminder that 35 pitchers (gasp) took the mound for us last year.[/highlight]
Should any of us be surprised if the team uses 40 or more pitchers in 2022? As the staff is comprised now, Cherington's going to be rotating his starters (and relievers) between Pittsburgh, Indy, and even Altoona regularly. Is it possible we'll see 20-25 guys get a start? There were 17 who started at least one game last year. With the losing, the injuries (real and imagined), the trades, and the releasing of pitchers, it's going to be tough to remember who all of these guys are.
I just read that between 1948-1965, Phillies pitcher Robin Roberts
pitched 305 complete games. IN 1953 he pitched 33 complete games with a 2.75 ERA. Wonder how much he would make today?
This past season there were a total of 36 complete games pitched. The most by any one pitcher was 3 ( three pitchers were tied with 3)
So I've been wanting some discussion on how our venerable board might think this will affect the Bucs next year - and that at least aligns with your argument starter for what the staff and bench might look like.
As part of that, [highlight]just a reminder that 35 pitchers (gasp) took the mound for us last year.[/highlight]
Should any of us be surprised if the team uses 40 or more pitchers in 2022? As the staff is comprised now, Cherington's going to be rotating his starters (and relievers) between Pittsburgh, Indy, and even Altoona regularly. Is it possible we'll see 20-25 guys get a start? There were 17 who started at least one game last year. With the losing, the injuries (real and imagined), the trades, and the releasing of pitchers, it's going to be tough to remember who all of these guys are.
I just read that between 1948-1965, Phillies pitcher Robin Roberts
pitched 305 complete games. IN 1953 he pitched 33 complete games with a 2.75 ERA. Wonder how much he would make today?
This past season there were a total of 36 complete games pitched. The most by any one pitcher was 3 ( three pitchers were tied with 3)
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2drfischer@gmail.c
We Need a 13-Man Pitching Staff with 5 Bench players
546A6F67746C6C674762756631030 wrote: Sorry Syracuse, I know this is not going down the argument you have sent up ... but I will admit I was caught off-guard by the de-emphasis of starting pitchers going 5 innings last year - throughout baseball. Five innings seems almost unattainable by most starters with four innings and two times through a lineup being the new standard, which means middle-relief guys who can go a couple of innings are suddenly at a premium. Plus, our starters struggled so often in the 4th inning last year.
So I've been wanting some discussion on how our venerable board might think this will affect the Bucs next year - and that at least aligns with your argument starter for what the staff and bench might look like.
As part of that, [highlight]just a reminder that 35 pitchers (gasp) took the mound for us last year.[/highlight]
Should any of us be surprised if the team uses 40 or more pitchers in 2022? As the staff is comprised now, Cherington's going to be rotating his starters (and relievers) between Pittsburgh, Indy, and even Altoona regularly. Is it possible we'll see 20-25 guys get a start? There were 17 who started at least one game last year. With the losing, the injuries (real and imagined), the trades, and the releasing of pitchers, it's going to be tough to remember who all of these guys are.
I just read that between 1948-1965, Phillies pitcher Robin Roberts
pitched 305 complete games. IN 1953 he pitched 33 complete games with a 2.75 ERA. Wonder how much he would make today?
How much money would he make today? What’s the biggest number you know?
So I've been wanting some discussion on how our venerable board might think this will affect the Bucs next year - and that at least aligns with your argument starter for what the staff and bench might look like.
As part of that, [highlight]just a reminder that 35 pitchers (gasp) took the mound for us last year.[/highlight]
Should any of us be surprised if the team uses 40 or more pitchers in 2022? As the staff is comprised now, Cherington's going to be rotating his starters (and relievers) between Pittsburgh, Indy, and even Altoona regularly. Is it possible we'll see 20-25 guys get a start? There were 17 who started at least one game last year. With the losing, the injuries (real and imagined), the trades, and the releasing of pitchers, it's going to be tough to remember who all of these guys are.
I just read that between 1948-1965, Phillies pitcher Robin Roberts
pitched 305 complete games. IN 1953 he pitched 33 complete games with a 2.75 ERA. Wonder how much he would make today?
How much money would he make today? What’s the biggest number you know?
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
We Need a 13-Man Pitching Staff with 5 Bench players
4F71747C6F77777C5C796E7D2A180 wrote: Sorry Syracuse, I know this is not going down the argument you have sent up ... but I will admit I was caught off-guard by the de-emphasis of starting pitchers going 5 innings last year - throughout baseball. Five innings seems almost unattainable by most starters with four innings and two times through a lineup being the new standard, which means middle-relief guys who can go a couple of innings are suddenly at a premium. Plus, our starters struggled so often in the 4th inning last year.
So I've been wanting some discussion on how our venerable board might think this will affect the Bucs next year - and that at least aligns with your argument starter for what the staff and bench might look like.
As part of that, [highlight]just a reminder that 35 pitchers (gasp) took the mound for us last year.[/highlight]
Should any of us be surprised if the team uses 40 or more pitchers in 2022? As the staff is comprised now, Cherington's going to be rotating his starters (and relievers) between Pittsburgh, Indy, and even Altoona regularly. Is it possible we'll see 20-25 guys get a start? There were 17 who started at least one game last year. With the losing, the injuries (real and imagined), the trades, and the releasing of pitchers, it's going to be tough to remember who all of these guys are.
I just read that between 1948-1965, Phillies pitcher Robin Roberts
pitched 305 complete games. IN 1953 he pitched 33 complete games with a 2.75 ERA. Wonder how much he would make today?
That's really quite basic and common sense. Depends on who he would play for.
If he played for some teams, he would get the going rate for what top pitchers in today's game earn.
If he played for other teams, he'd be dumped for suspects who may or may not ever see the light of day in a major league uniform.
So I've been wanting some discussion on how our venerable board might think this will affect the Bucs next year - and that at least aligns with your argument starter for what the staff and bench might look like.
As part of that, [highlight]just a reminder that 35 pitchers (gasp) took the mound for us last year.[/highlight]
Should any of us be surprised if the team uses 40 or more pitchers in 2022? As the staff is comprised now, Cherington's going to be rotating his starters (and relievers) between Pittsburgh, Indy, and even Altoona regularly. Is it possible we'll see 20-25 guys get a start? There were 17 who started at least one game last year. With the losing, the injuries (real and imagined), the trades, and the releasing of pitchers, it's going to be tough to remember who all of these guys are.
I just read that between 1948-1965, Phillies pitcher Robin Roberts
pitched 305 complete games. IN 1953 he pitched 33 complete games with a 2.75 ERA. Wonder how much he would make today?
That's really quite basic and common sense. Depends on who he would play for.
If he played for some teams, he would get the going rate for what top pitchers in today's game earn.
If he played for other teams, he'd be dumped for suspects who may or may not ever see the light of day in a major league uniform.
We Need a 13-Man Pitching Staff with 5 Bench players
Before you base too much on how many innings starters went last year, keep in mind teams were being very cautious because so few innings were pitched the year before. A concerted effort was being made to protect pitchers' arms. Even before the COVID year, it did seem starters were going fewer innings.