5C7B72727B686B7B5C6B7D1E0 wrote: Looks like the BP will be a hot mess. Man is this team in a "salary dump-rebuild " mode. Taking 2 A ball pitchers with no control along with rumors to move Tallion and Bell. If that rumor is true , that's the ultimate dump as it would for sure men selling very low on both those guys.
Don't get me wrong . Everything considered , I like the rule 5 draft but they will lose pretty much all the fan base if they field a 100 los team. They really could have a decent rotation if they don't trade Musgrove and or Tallion . Plus Reynolds , Newman and Bell could bounce back. Even a remote chance Polanco comes around ? Hey... probably not , just saying that they don't need to dump everyone with a decent size contract.
This team was not making the playoffs in 2021. I dont see how it is a negative to pick up players that can help them make the playoffs in 2022 or 2023. Your assessment of the players drafted is inaccurate.
Reading comprehension is not your strong suit . The "assessment " is inaccurate ? LOL as I gave no assessment other than to say they have control issues. If they didn't , they wouldn't have been made available. Comprende ? Also I never said it was "negative " or a mistake to draft those 2 players.
Well it is not accurate that they both have control issues. Comprende?
LOL .. Soriano in his last 3 seasons has 102 BB in 206 innings. Oviedo In his last fulll year had 40 in 87 innings. Both are said to have command issues.
December Rule 5 Draft
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
December Rule 5 Draft
4E68697E68780B0 wrote: Read a good article on the Rule 5 on Tim Williams' site. Sounds like Luis Oviedo - the guy they got in the Mets trade - will be on the 25-man at the start of the season. They're not planning to have Jose Soriano ready for a couple of months, since he's recovering from Tommy John. I guess the plan is to start him off on the 60-day IL.
One guy could be coming off the 25-man close to the time the other is coming off. I like it. Big arms, low cost.
yeah, I wonder if the Angels would have rostered Soriano if not for the TJ surgery.
Doubtful IMO. He has major control problems. I still can't wrap my head around from we took an arm from an organization that might be more pitching starved than us with the first pick overall. They didn't protect him for a reason. If they saw a future in him there, they protect him TJ surgery or not.
One guy could be coming off the 25-man close to the time the other is coming off. I like it. Big arms, low cost.
yeah, I wonder if the Angels would have rostered Soriano if not for the TJ surgery.
Doubtful IMO. He has major control problems. I still can't wrap my head around from we took an arm from an organization that might be more pitching starved than us with the first pick overall. They didn't protect him for a reason. If they saw a future in him there, they protect him TJ surgery or not.
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Bobster21
December Rule 5 Draft
44545562747478170 wrote: Read a good article on the Rule 5 on Tim Williams' site. Sounds like Luis Oviedo - the guy they got in the Mets trade - will be on the 25-man at the start of the season. They're not planning to have Jose Soriano ready for a couple of months, since he's recovering from Tommy John. I guess the plan is to start him off on the 60-day IL.
One guy could be coming off the 25-man close to the time the other is coming off. I like it. Big arms, low cost.
yeah, I wonder if the Angels would have rostered Soriano if not for the TJ surgery.
Doubtful IMO. He has major control problems. I still can't wrap my head around from we took an arm from an organization that might be more pitching starved than us with the first pick overall. They didn't protect him for a reason. If they saw a future in him there, they protect him TJ surgery or not.
But you could say that about every Rule 5 pick ever. You can only protect so many. So the draft gives teams a chance to take a flier on--hopefully--the best of those who barely missed the cut.
One guy could be coming off the 25-man close to the time the other is coming off. I like it. Big arms, low cost.
yeah, I wonder if the Angels would have rostered Soriano if not for the TJ surgery.
Doubtful IMO. He has major control problems. I still can't wrap my head around from we took an arm from an organization that might be more pitching starved than us with the first pick overall. They didn't protect him for a reason. If they saw a future in him there, they protect him TJ surgery or not.
But you could say that about every Rule 5 pick ever. You can only protect so many. So the draft gives teams a chance to take a flier on--hopefully--the best of those who barely missed the cut.
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DemDog
December Rule 5 Draft
4E636E7F78697E3E3D0C0 wrote: Read a good article on the Rule 5 on Tim Williams' site. Sounds like Luis Oviedo - the guy they got in the Mets trade - will be on the 25-man at the start of the season. They're not planning to have Jose Soriano ready for a couple of months, since he's recovering from Tommy John. I guess the plan is to start him off on the 60-day IL.
One guy could be coming off the 25-man close to the time the other is coming off. I like it. Big arms, low cost.
yeah, I wonder if the Angels would have rostered Soriano if not for the TJ surgery.
Doubtful IMO. He has major control problems. I still can't wrap my head around from we took an arm from an organization that might be more pitching starved than us with the first pick overall. They didn't protect him for a reason. If they saw a future in him there, they protect him TJ surgery or not.
But you could say that about every Rule 5 pick ever. You can only protect so many. So the draft gives teams a chance to take a flier on--hopefully--the best of those who barely missed the cut.
In this day and age, it is not like the Bucs are trying to get the next Roberto Clemente. For what a Rule 5 pick costs in terms of $s it's a no-brainer. If the guy does not seem to fit their needs they just offer him back to the other team and get half of their investment back. As far as the cost in terms of players, there is the chance that another team would have taken a Bucco player in the Rule 5 draft. We can only hope that BC and the new wave player development system can make something out of the two guys they took in the draft. As Bobster says, "take a flyer on a player". It's not like the Buccos are just one guy from being a legitimate WS contender.
One guy could be coming off the 25-man close to the time the other is coming off. I like it. Big arms, low cost.
yeah, I wonder if the Angels would have rostered Soriano if not for the TJ surgery.
Doubtful IMO. He has major control problems. I still can't wrap my head around from we took an arm from an organization that might be more pitching starved than us with the first pick overall. They didn't protect him for a reason. If they saw a future in him there, they protect him TJ surgery or not.
But you could say that about every Rule 5 pick ever. You can only protect so many. So the draft gives teams a chance to take a flier on--hopefully--the best of those who barely missed the cut.
In this day and age, it is not like the Bucs are trying to get the next Roberto Clemente. For what a Rule 5 pick costs in terms of $s it's a no-brainer. If the guy does not seem to fit their needs they just offer him back to the other team and get half of their investment back. As far as the cost in terms of players, there is the chance that another team would have taken a Bucco player in the Rule 5 draft. We can only hope that BC and the new wave player development system can make something out of the two guys they took in the draft. As Bobster says, "take a flyer on a player". It's not like the Buccos are just one guy from being a legitimate WS contender.
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Bobster21
December Rule 5 Draft
I think the Rule 5 system now is more fair to the players than when Clemente was picked. Back then it was tied to the "bonus baby" rule. Players who received a signing bonus over $4,000 had to be immediately placed on the major league roster for 2 full years before receiving any minor league experience or else risk being lost in the Rule 5 draft. A lot of "bonus babies" never recovered from missing out on early minor league training while mostly sitting and watching for 2 years or being overmatched in the rare instances they got off the bench. It basically delayed their development by 2 years before they could begin their minor league training. And it couldn't have done much for their confidence to be the last guy on the bench for 2 years knowing they weren't ready to face the competition.
Even Clemente took 5 years to have his breakout season in 1960 after coming to the Bucs in 1955. His entire minor league career consisted of 148 ABs hitting .257. The Dodgers knew he wasn't ready and took a chance by not having him sit on their bench for 2 years.
Now the Rule 5 draft gives players a chance who have already been developing in the minors but still deemed not ready by their organization. So it doesn't stunt their development like it used to.
Even Clemente took 5 years to have his breakout season in 1960 after coming to the Bucs in 1955. His entire minor league career consisted of 148 ABs hitting .257. The Dodgers knew he wasn't ready and took a chance by not having him sit on their bench for 2 years.
Now the Rule 5 draft gives players a chance who have already been developing in the minors but still deemed not ready by their organization. So it doesn't stunt their development like it used to.
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2drfischer@gmail.c
December Rule 5 Draft
153835242332256566570 wrote: I think the Rule 5 system now is more fair to the players than when Clemente was picked. Back then it was tied to the "bonus baby" rule. Players who received a signing bonus over $4,000 had to be immediately placed on the major league roster for 2 full years before receiving any minor league experience or else risk being lost in the Rule 5 draft. A lot of "bonus babies" never recovered from missing out on early minor league training while mostly sitting and watching for 2 years or being overmatched in the rare instances they got off the bench. It basically delayed their development by 2 years before they could begin their minor league training. And it couldn't have done much for their confidence to be the last guy on the bench for 2 years knowing they weren't ready to face the competition.
Even Clemente took 5 years to have his breakout season in 1960 after coming to the Bucs in 1955. His entire minor league career consisted of 148 ABs hitting .257. The Dodgers knew he wasn't ready and took a chance by not having him sit on their bench for 2 years.
[highlight]Now the Rule 5 draft gives players a chance who have already been developing in the minors[/highlight] but still deemed not ready by their organization. So it doesn't stunt their development like it used to.
This is an advantage for a team willing to take a Rule 5 player. Compared to a player taken in the annual amateur draft, at least a Rule 5 player has professional experience. More is known about those players and their abilities than a player coming out of high school or two years of college.
Even Clemente took 5 years to have his breakout season in 1960 after coming to the Bucs in 1955. His entire minor league career consisted of 148 ABs hitting .257. The Dodgers knew he wasn't ready and took a chance by not having him sit on their bench for 2 years.
[highlight]Now the Rule 5 draft gives players a chance who have already been developing in the minors[/highlight] but still deemed not ready by their organization. So it doesn't stunt their development like it used to.
This is an advantage for a team willing to take a Rule 5 player. Compared to a player taken in the annual amateur draft, at least a Rule 5 player has professional experience. More is known about those players and their abilities than a player coming out of high school or two years of college.
December Rule 5 Draft
6C414C5D5A4B5C1C1F2E0 wrote: Read a good article on the Rule 5 on Tim Williams' site. Sounds like Luis Oviedo - the guy they got in the Mets trade - will be on the 25-man at the start of the season. They're not planning to have Jose Soriano ready for a couple of months, since he's recovering from Tommy John. I guess the plan is to start him off on the 60-day IL.
One guy could be coming off the 25-man close to the time the other is coming off. I like it. Big arms, low cost.
yeah, I wonder if the Angels would have rostered Soriano if not for the TJ surgery.
Doubtful IMO. He has major control problems. I still can't wrap my head around from we took an arm from an organization that might be more pitching starved than us with the first pick overall. They didn't protect him for a reason. If they saw a future in him there, they protect him TJ surgery or not.
But you could say that about every Rule 5 pick ever. You can only protect so many. So the draft gives teams a chance to take a flier on--hopefully--the best of those who barely missed the cut.
This is true, but again, Anaheim or whatever the hell they are called, has serious pitching issues - alot worse than us IMO and why would they be allowing a good arm go in this draft format if he was worth keeping?
One guy could be coming off the 25-man close to the time the other is coming off. I like it. Big arms, low cost.
yeah, I wonder if the Angels would have rostered Soriano if not for the TJ surgery.
Doubtful IMO. He has major control problems. I still can't wrap my head around from we took an arm from an organization that might be more pitching starved than us with the first pick overall. They didn't protect him for a reason. If they saw a future in him there, they protect him TJ surgery or not.
But you could say that about every Rule 5 pick ever. You can only protect so many. So the draft gives teams a chance to take a flier on--hopefully--the best of those who barely missed the cut.
This is true, but again, Anaheim or whatever the hell they are called, has serious pitching issues - alot worse than us IMO and why would they be allowing a good arm go in this draft format if he was worth keeping?
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Bobster21
December Rule 5 Draft
6676774056565A350 wrote: Read a good article on the Rule 5 on Tim Williams' site. Sounds like Luis Oviedo - the guy they got in the Mets trade - will be on the 25-man at the start of the season. They're not planning to have Jose Soriano ready for a couple of months, since he's recovering from Tommy John. I guess the plan is to start him off on the 60-day IL.
One guy could be coming off the 25-man close to the time the other is coming off. I like it. Big arms, low cost.
yeah, I wonder if the Angels would have rostered Soriano if not for the TJ surgery.
Doubtful IMO. He has major control problems. I still can't wrap my head around from we took an arm from an organization that might be more pitching starved than us with the first pick overall. They didn't protect him for a reason. If they saw a future in him there, they protect him TJ surgery or not.
But you could say that about every Rule 5 pick ever. You can only protect so many. So the draft gives teams a chance to take a flier on--hopefully--the best of those who barely missed the cut.
This is true, but again, Anaheim or whatever the hell they are called, has serious pitching issues - alot worse than us IMO and why would they be allowing a good arm go in this draft format if he was worth keeping?
From what I can find, he was one of the Angels' top pitching prospects. Ranked 12th or 13th overall in their system. Still rehabbing from TJS, he won't be active until mid 2021. Their GM said it was a tough decision to leave him unprotected. He turned 22 in October and hasn't pitched above low A. His hits/IP has been very impressive but part of that is because he issues too many walks and batters aren't seeing strikes to hit. I suspect the Angels gambled that he wouldn't be selected due to the ongoing TJS rehab, his control issues and the fact that he still has many minor league levels to get thru. And if they did lose him, those same issues might prevent him from becoming successful. But the Pirates have nothing to lose by taking a chance on him. Probably felt his ceiling was better than other, healthier unprotected prospects available to them in the draft.
One guy could be coming off the 25-man close to the time the other is coming off. I like it. Big arms, low cost.
yeah, I wonder if the Angels would have rostered Soriano if not for the TJ surgery.
Doubtful IMO. He has major control problems. I still can't wrap my head around from we took an arm from an organization that might be more pitching starved than us with the first pick overall. They didn't protect him for a reason. If they saw a future in him there, they protect him TJ surgery or not.
But you could say that about every Rule 5 pick ever. You can only protect so many. So the draft gives teams a chance to take a flier on--hopefully--the best of those who barely missed the cut.
This is true, but again, Anaheim or whatever the hell they are called, has serious pitching issues - alot worse than us IMO and why would they be allowing a good arm go in this draft format if he was worth keeping?
From what I can find, he was one of the Angels' top pitching prospects. Ranked 12th or 13th overall in their system. Still rehabbing from TJS, he won't be active until mid 2021. Their GM said it was a tough decision to leave him unprotected. He turned 22 in October and hasn't pitched above low A. His hits/IP has been very impressive but part of that is because he issues too many walks and batters aren't seeing strikes to hit. I suspect the Angels gambled that he wouldn't be selected due to the ongoing TJS rehab, his control issues and the fact that he still has many minor league levels to get thru. And if they did lose him, those same issues might prevent him from becoming successful. But the Pirates have nothing to lose by taking a chance on him. Probably felt his ceiling was better than other, healthier unprotected prospects available to them in the draft.
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BellevueBuc
- Posts: 343
- Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:41 pm
December Rule 5 Draft
5C717C6D6A7B6C2C2F1E0 wrote: Read a good article on the Rule 5 on Tim Williams' site. Sounds like Luis Oviedo - the guy they got in the Mets trade - will be on the 25-man at the start of the season. They're not planning to have Jose Soriano ready for a couple of months, since he's recovering from Tommy John. I guess the plan is to start him off on the 60-day IL.
One guy could be coming off the 25-man close to the time the other is coming off. I like it. Big arms, low cost.
yeah, I wonder if the Angels would have rostered Soriano if not for the TJ surgery.
Doubtful IMO. He has major control problems. I still can't wrap my head around from we took an arm from an organization that might be more pitching starved than us with the first pick overall. They didn't protect him for a reason. If they saw a future in him there, they protect him TJ surgery or not.
But you could say that about every Rule 5 pick ever. You can only protect so many. So the draft gives teams a chance to take a flier on--hopefully--the best of those who barely missed the cut.
This is true, but again, Anaheim or whatever the hell they are called, has serious pitching issues - alot worse than us IMO and why would they be allowing a good arm go in this draft format if he was worth keeping?
From what I can find, he was one of the Angels' top pitching prospects. Ranked 12th or 13th overall in their system. Still rehabbing from TJS, he won't be active until mid 2021. Their GM said it was a tough decision to leave him unprotected. He turned 22 in October and hasn't pitched above low A. His hits/IP has been very impressive but part of that is because he issues too many walks and batters aren't seeing strikes to hit. I suspect the Angels gambled that he wouldn't be selected due to the ongoing TJS rehab, his control issues and the fact that he still has many minor league levels to get thru. And if they did lose him, those same issues might prevent him from becoming successful. But the Pirates have nothing to lose by taking a chance on him. Probably felt his ceiling was better than other, healthier unprotected prospects available to them in the draft.
Agree, it is tough for the Angels to protect a guy that will likely not help them this year when they are expected to compete for the playoffs. The Pirates can work him out in Florida for months and figure out if it is worth keeping a guy that profiles as a back end reliever. It is a worthy gamble in this type of draft. I am not really sure what else they should have done.
One guy could be coming off the 25-man close to the time the other is coming off. I like it. Big arms, low cost.
yeah, I wonder if the Angels would have rostered Soriano if not for the TJ surgery.
Doubtful IMO. He has major control problems. I still can't wrap my head around from we took an arm from an organization that might be more pitching starved than us with the first pick overall. They didn't protect him for a reason. If they saw a future in him there, they protect him TJ surgery or not.
But you could say that about every Rule 5 pick ever. You can only protect so many. So the draft gives teams a chance to take a flier on--hopefully--the best of those who barely missed the cut.
This is true, but again, Anaheim or whatever the hell they are called, has serious pitching issues - alot worse than us IMO and why would they be allowing a good arm go in this draft format if he was worth keeping?
From what I can find, he was one of the Angels' top pitching prospects. Ranked 12th or 13th overall in their system. Still rehabbing from TJS, he won't be active until mid 2021. Their GM said it was a tough decision to leave him unprotected. He turned 22 in October and hasn't pitched above low A. His hits/IP has been very impressive but part of that is because he issues too many walks and batters aren't seeing strikes to hit. I suspect the Angels gambled that he wouldn't be selected due to the ongoing TJS rehab, his control issues and the fact that he still has many minor league levels to get thru. And if they did lose him, those same issues might prevent him from becoming successful. But the Pirates have nothing to lose by taking a chance on him. Probably felt his ceiling was better than other, healthier unprotected prospects available to them in the draft.
Agree, it is tough for the Angels to protect a guy that will likely not help them this year when they are expected to compete for the playoffs. The Pirates can work him out in Florida for months and figure out if it is worth keeping a guy that profiles as a back end reliever. It is a worthy gamble in this type of draft. I am not really sure what else they should have done.
December Rule 5 Draft
1F383131382B28381F283E5D0 wrote: Read a good article on the Rule 5 on Tim Williams' site. Sounds like Luis Oviedo - the guy they got in the Mets trade - will be on the 25-man at the start of the season. They're not planning to have Jose Soriano ready for a couple of months, since he's recovering from Tommy John. I guess the plan is to start him off on the 60-day IL.
One guy could be coming off the 25-man close to the time the other is coming off. I like it. Big arms, low cost.
yeah, I wonder if the Angels would have rostered Soriano if not for the TJ surgery.
Doubtful IMO. He has major control problems. I still can't wrap my head around from we took an arm from an organization that might be more pitching starved than us with the first pick overall. They didn't protect him for a reason. If they saw a future in him there, they protect him TJ surgery or not.
But you could say that about every Rule 5 pick ever. You can only protect so many. So the draft gives teams a chance to take a flier on--hopefully--the best of those who barely missed the cut.
This is true, but again, Anaheim or whatever the hell they are called, has serious pitching issues - alot worse than us IMO and why would they be allowing a good arm go in this draft format if he was worth keeping?
From what I can find, he was one of the Angels' top pitching prospects. Ranked 12th or 13th overall in their system. Still rehabbing from TJS, he won't be active until mid 2021. Their GM said it was a tough decision to leave him unprotected. He turned 22 in October and hasn't pitched above low A. His hits/IP has been very impressive but part of that is because he issues too many walks and batters aren't seeing strikes to hit. I suspect the Angels gambled that he wouldn't be selected due to the ongoing TJS rehab, his control issues and the fact that he still has many minor league levels to get thru. And if they did lose him, those same issues might prevent him from becoming successful. But the Pirates have nothing to lose by taking a chance on him. Probably felt his ceiling was better than other, healthier unprotected prospects available to them in the draft.
Agree, it is tough for the Angels to protect a guy that will likely not help them this year when they are expected to compete for the playoffs. The Pirates can work him out in Florida for months and figure out if it is worth keeping a guy that profiles as a back end reliever. It is a worthy gamble in this type of draft. I am not really sure what else they should have done.
getting someone recovering from injury made it easier to trade for the other pitcher too.
One guy could be coming off the 25-man close to the time the other is coming off. I like it. Big arms, low cost.
yeah, I wonder if the Angels would have rostered Soriano if not for the TJ surgery.
Doubtful IMO. He has major control problems. I still can't wrap my head around from we took an arm from an organization that might be more pitching starved than us with the first pick overall. They didn't protect him for a reason. If they saw a future in him there, they protect him TJ surgery or not.
But you could say that about every Rule 5 pick ever. You can only protect so many. So the draft gives teams a chance to take a flier on--hopefully--the best of those who barely missed the cut.
This is true, but again, Anaheim or whatever the hell they are called, has serious pitching issues - alot worse than us IMO and why would they be allowing a good arm go in this draft format if he was worth keeping?
From what I can find, he was one of the Angels' top pitching prospects. Ranked 12th or 13th overall in their system. Still rehabbing from TJS, he won't be active until mid 2021. Their GM said it was a tough decision to leave him unprotected. He turned 22 in October and hasn't pitched above low A. His hits/IP has been very impressive but part of that is because he issues too many walks and batters aren't seeing strikes to hit. I suspect the Angels gambled that he wouldn't be selected due to the ongoing TJS rehab, his control issues and the fact that he still has many minor league levels to get thru. And if they did lose him, those same issues might prevent him from becoming successful. But the Pirates have nothing to lose by taking a chance on him. Probably felt his ceiling was better than other, healthier unprotected prospects available to them in the draft.
Agree, it is tough for the Angels to protect a guy that will likely not help them this year when they are expected to compete for the playoffs. The Pirates can work him out in Florida for months and figure out if it is worth keeping a guy that profiles as a back end reliever. It is a worthy gamble in this type of draft. I am not really sure what else they should have done.
getting someone recovering from injury made it easier to trade for the other pitcher too.