What would another GM do?
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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Bobster21
What would another GM do?
Not a good start so far for Liriano. 4.48 ERA, 1.585 WHIP and 11 walks in 17.2 innings.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3642
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
What would another GM do?
His first two starts were bombs. Better since though.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
What would another GM do?
774549495D6F4C45484D4245240 wrote: His first two starts were bombs. Better since though.
His second start was his best: Went six innings with 10 Ks. His next two starts he didn't get out of the 5th and was at 91 and 97 pitches.
His second start was his best: Went six innings with 10 Ks. His next two starts he didn't get out of the 5th and was at 91 and 97 pitches.
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Bobster21
What would another GM do?
2B20282421203B7E780F362E272020612C204F0 wrote: His first two starts were bombs. Better since though.
His second start was his best: Went six innings with 10 Ks. His next two starts he didn't get out of the 5th and was at 91 and 97 pitches.
I think you mean he didn't get out of the 6th (5.1 both times).
His second start was his best: Went six innings with 10 Ks. His next two starts he didn't get out of the 5th and was at 91 and 97 pitches.
I think you mean he didn't get out of the 6th (5.1 both times).
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
What would another GM do?
446964757263743437060 wrote: His first two starts were bombs. Better since though.
His second start was his best: Went six innings with 10 Ks. His next two starts he didn't get out of the 5th and was at 91 and 97 pitches.
I think you mean he didn't get out of the 6th (5.1 both times).
Yes, sorry. He is getting no run support either.
His second start was his best: Went six innings with 10 Ks. His next two starts he didn't get out of the 5th and was at 91 and 97 pitches.
I think you mean he didn't get out of the 6th (5.1 both times).
Yes, sorry. He is getting no run support either.
What would another GM do?
Delusional. It's crazy to assign praise to a GM when players do well, and then assign blame to the players only when they do poorly. Sometimes, the very same players just later on.
There's no point to discussing it. It's irrational.
You guys are right. We should sell off and keep all the same FO pieces. They have nothing to do with team underperformance. It's the players and also the fans fault, I say
There's no point to discussing it. It's irrational.
You guys are right. We should sell off and keep all the same FO pieces. They have nothing to do with team underperformance. It's the players and also the fans fault, I say
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rucker59@gmail.com
What would another GM do?
5A7B735A71791E0 wrote: Somewhere here we talked about trading major pieces that might bring us some unique up and coming as well as established talent.
That though brings me back almost 58years when my Bucs led by GM Joe L. Brown totally disappointed me as a 10 yr old. They traded away my favorite Pirate and the team's best player one Frank Thomas. Thomas was a power hitting 3B/LF who had led the Bucs in HR and RBIs in 1958. Along with Thomas the Bucs parted with minor RHP Whammy Douglas, Johnny Powers a LH hitting OF/PH who hit below the Mendoza Line before it was the Mendoza Line and right handed OF/3B/PH Jim Pendelton to the Cincinnati Redlegs for uh 3 guys who would help the Bucs make history. Don "The Tiger" Hoak a righty swinging 3B who earned his nickname because of his toughness, lefty swinging catcher/PH named Forrest Harrill Burgess aka "Smoky". A great pinch hitter who could get out of bed, come to bat and get a hit Bob Prince used to say. Finally there was a little "Kitten" obtained in LHP Harvey Haddix. Called the "Kitten" because of his resemblance to and his great fielding ability to a similar guy Harry "The Cat" Breechen.
Haddix is most known for his 12 perfect inning game against the Braves on 5/26/59. The game was decided in the 13th inning on a Joe Adcock double. Braves win 1-0. The Bucs were shutout despite racking up 12 hits. The Box Score
All three guys were instrumental in the Bucs winning the WS in 1960. In fact Haddix was the winner of game 7 after Maz's HR.
I look back to those simpler days when being a baseball fan was fun. You rooted for your team and cheered when they won and cried and moaned when they lost but you never ever quit rooting for them and going to games.
Now adays with all the tech involved in not just baseball but all sports it has become more of a pain to watch a game on tv and even at the park. I could go on about those two things but I wont because I love the game and the Pirates. I hope that some of you younger guys can take a break from all the stats and just sit back and relax and watch a great game and a bunch of guys who get paid lots of money to "play" and most of who are giving it all they got to win.
For me the dream that I have would to be able to go back to my child hood and sit in the stands at Forbes Field with my dad keeping score in the official scorebook, eating popcorn and having fun with dad and the Bucs.
Darn Possum, you go off and write the post of the year. It makes me want to go off and have a beer or a diet Coke with Mr Nutting (I'll be buying of course) and forget about finances, PNC's too-small video board and the cost of a decent bench player; just enjoy the game. The game became so big and the world changed so much, that those simple times are gone for ever. Nothing is the same as those 1960 Pirates, except the game itself; but the game hasn't changed at all. First order of business - enjoy the game no matter who's making a fortune off the team. And enjoy a good, if not a great, team.
Second, I wonder if the Pirates win the 60 WS if Thomas isn't traded? I don't know what was behind the Thomas trade, but it was obviously a huge deal to Pirate fans when it happened- how can you trade away a bat like that? And for what?
Thank you for pointing out that sometimes you have to make big moves if you want to win big. Time for the Pirates to make some big moves if they want to win big. Sitting on this team is a sure sign of trying to stay competitive and hoping rather than trying to build a WS winner.
That though brings me back almost 58years when my Bucs led by GM Joe L. Brown totally disappointed me as a 10 yr old. They traded away my favorite Pirate and the team's best player one Frank Thomas. Thomas was a power hitting 3B/LF who had led the Bucs in HR and RBIs in 1958. Along with Thomas the Bucs parted with minor RHP Whammy Douglas, Johnny Powers a LH hitting OF/PH who hit below the Mendoza Line before it was the Mendoza Line and right handed OF/3B/PH Jim Pendelton to the Cincinnati Redlegs for uh 3 guys who would help the Bucs make history. Don "The Tiger" Hoak a righty swinging 3B who earned his nickname because of his toughness, lefty swinging catcher/PH named Forrest Harrill Burgess aka "Smoky". A great pinch hitter who could get out of bed, come to bat and get a hit Bob Prince used to say. Finally there was a little "Kitten" obtained in LHP Harvey Haddix. Called the "Kitten" because of his resemblance to and his great fielding ability to a similar guy Harry "The Cat" Breechen.
Haddix is most known for his 12 perfect inning game against the Braves on 5/26/59. The game was decided in the 13th inning on a Joe Adcock double. Braves win 1-0. The Bucs were shutout despite racking up 12 hits. The Box Score
All three guys were instrumental in the Bucs winning the WS in 1960. In fact Haddix was the winner of game 7 after Maz's HR.
I look back to those simpler days when being a baseball fan was fun. You rooted for your team and cheered when they won and cried and moaned when they lost but you never ever quit rooting for them and going to games.
Now adays with all the tech involved in not just baseball but all sports it has become more of a pain to watch a game on tv and even at the park. I could go on about those two things but I wont because I love the game and the Pirates. I hope that some of you younger guys can take a break from all the stats and just sit back and relax and watch a great game and a bunch of guys who get paid lots of money to "play" and most of who are giving it all they got to win.
For me the dream that I have would to be able to go back to my child hood and sit in the stands at Forbes Field with my dad keeping score in the official scorebook, eating popcorn and having fun with dad and the Bucs.
Darn Possum, you go off and write the post of the year. It makes me want to go off and have a beer or a diet Coke with Mr Nutting (I'll be buying of course) and forget about finances, PNC's too-small video board and the cost of a decent bench player; just enjoy the game. The game became so big and the world changed so much, that those simple times are gone for ever. Nothing is the same as those 1960 Pirates, except the game itself; but the game hasn't changed at all. First order of business - enjoy the game no matter who's making a fortune off the team. And enjoy a good, if not a great, team.
Second, I wonder if the Pirates win the 60 WS if Thomas isn't traded? I don't know what was behind the Thomas trade, but it was obviously a huge deal to Pirate fans when it happened- how can you trade away a bat like that? And for what?
Thank you for pointing out that sometimes you have to make big moves if you want to win big. Time for the Pirates to make some big moves if they want to win big. Sitting on this team is a sure sign of trying to stay competitive and hoping rather than trying to build a WS winner.
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rucker59@gmail.com
What would another GM do?
On July 5, 2014 the Cubs were 6 games under .500 but with a bright future possible. Theo (and no, I won't confuse Neil with Theo) trades Jeff Samadizia (SP??) and Hammell to the A's. The A's are making an all in push and move valuable prospects for vets that the Cubs could have easily held on to.
Theo has built two historic franchises into WS winners and for both the Sox and Cubs he utilized trades of significant vets to build the WS winners.
If Theo was the GM of the Pirates, I have no doubt he would be moving chess pieces all over the board to build a better team. This is a pretty good team that has too many square pegs for round holes. Another GM would not sit on this team. Nobody on the roster, other than Tallion, would be off limits.
The Cubbies finished 2014 73-89. Anybody remember what their record was in 2015....
Theo has built two historic franchises into WS winners and for both the Sox and Cubs he utilized trades of significant vets to build the WS winners.
If Theo was the GM of the Pirates, I have no doubt he would be moving chess pieces all over the board to build a better team. This is a pretty good team that has too many square pegs for round holes. Another GM would not sit on this team. Nobody on the roster, other than Tallion, would be off limits.
The Cubbies finished 2014 73-89. Anybody remember what their record was in 2015....
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rucker59@gmail.com
What would another GM do?
4858596E7878741B0 wrote: Some early thoughts at each position. First we will be sellers at the trade deadline (no surprise there).
1) I agree we need a stop gap outfielder who can play good defense. I wouldn't overpay for him though. We only need him for the remainder of this year. Not sure who that would be. Why doesn't Angel Pagan not want to play in 2017? He would be a good fit on a one year deal ($3 - $4 million). Maybe he doesn't want to play for a non-contender? Leave Cutch in CF until he is traded this summer. Move Polanco back to RF where he is most familiar. Osuna, Frazier and new OF in left.
2) Hope like heck that Meadows can start hitting so he can be brought up when Cutch is traded this summer. He can hit 250 and learn on the job (like Cutch did his first year or two). Don't bring him up before his added free agent service clock is passed regardless.
3) Leave Bell at first base...give him 75% of the starts and stop replacing him for defense (he has to learn how to swim on defense in late innings). Back up with Osuna.
4) Make Frazier the starter at 2b at leave him there for the most part. Shop Harrison around to the league. Will probably have to package him with someone else of value to move his contract.
5) Mercer stays at SS. Use Hanson as backup at SS and 2b. If you don't use Hanson anymore than Hurdle is now, go ahead and release him. What a waste! Promote Newman to Indy and get him ready to replace Mercer in 2018 sometime.
6) Freeze stays at third, backed up by Jung Ho when he returns (after all star break if we are lucky. Speaking up JHG, if he is not back and productive by the end of the year....release his behind. Eat the contract if need be. His trade value is shot.
7) Cervelli stays as starter at C. Move on from Stewart and bring up Diaz to back up. Diaz should probably catch for Glasnow as he is probably the only catch who has a chance to moderately stop the opponents running game. Stewart is gone after this year anyways (another sunk cost).
8) Gosselin...to the minors to get his hitting back. Jaso, go ahead and release at all-star break (another sunk cost who will not be back next year).
9) Staring Pitchers....stick with the kids, Tallion, Kuhl and Glasnow. Nova is a lock also. Consider bringing up Eppler, Brault or Holmes in about 6 weeks when......Cole is traded for the best offer. Garret Cole is are best trade piece. He can still bring a top 50 hitting prospect. Not sure what position should be prioritized, but I would think 3b or an OF. Cole will never reach superstar status with the Pirates. He will only get more expensive, blow out his arm or start getting even more disgruntled with a rebuilding team. Time to get serious about moving Cole....like McCutcheon.
10) Bring up the young guns and go with them. Add to Rivero, and most anyone not named Watson....Listen to offers for Watson by the way. Too expensive and not a true closer.
11)....finally Hurdle and his coaches need to go now. This team needs new blood, someone fiery who will hold veterans accountable for lazy play and bad hitting and defensive approaches. Maybe Searge needs to go also, but the only working is our pitching staff. Not sure if he gets credit for that though.
I'm beyond frustrated as you can see. I don't see 75 wins this year. Last place at current pace (Reds and Brewers trending up and we are not).
I would rather see Osuna at first. He is more of a first baseman than Bell. Certainly better defensively. I agree with pretty much everything else on here except can Hurdle. This roster wasn't made to be in the play-offs coming out of ST. Now with Marte out, it certainly isn't. Management didn't do enough in the offseason to make this team better, so we are blaming the manager?
I pretty much agree with Arrowreb except that I too would move Osuna to 1st and Bell to the OF. I would add one more trade in addition to Cutch and Cole - I'd trade Polanco packaged with Harrision. The Pirates could reap a very very significant return. I'd rather trade Marte than Polanco, but he's blown a hole in his value. OF in 2018 - Meadows, Marte and Bell.
1) I agree we need a stop gap outfielder who can play good defense. I wouldn't overpay for him though. We only need him for the remainder of this year. Not sure who that would be. Why doesn't Angel Pagan not want to play in 2017? He would be a good fit on a one year deal ($3 - $4 million). Maybe he doesn't want to play for a non-contender? Leave Cutch in CF until he is traded this summer. Move Polanco back to RF where he is most familiar. Osuna, Frazier and new OF in left.
2) Hope like heck that Meadows can start hitting so he can be brought up when Cutch is traded this summer. He can hit 250 and learn on the job (like Cutch did his first year or two). Don't bring him up before his added free agent service clock is passed regardless.
3) Leave Bell at first base...give him 75% of the starts and stop replacing him for defense (he has to learn how to swim on defense in late innings). Back up with Osuna.
4) Make Frazier the starter at 2b at leave him there for the most part. Shop Harrison around to the league. Will probably have to package him with someone else of value to move his contract.
5) Mercer stays at SS. Use Hanson as backup at SS and 2b. If you don't use Hanson anymore than Hurdle is now, go ahead and release him. What a waste! Promote Newman to Indy and get him ready to replace Mercer in 2018 sometime.
6) Freeze stays at third, backed up by Jung Ho when he returns (after all star break if we are lucky. Speaking up JHG, if he is not back and productive by the end of the year....release his behind. Eat the contract if need be. His trade value is shot.
7) Cervelli stays as starter at C. Move on from Stewart and bring up Diaz to back up. Diaz should probably catch for Glasnow as he is probably the only catch who has a chance to moderately stop the opponents running game. Stewart is gone after this year anyways (another sunk cost).
8) Gosselin...to the minors to get his hitting back. Jaso, go ahead and release at all-star break (another sunk cost who will not be back next year).
9) Staring Pitchers....stick with the kids, Tallion, Kuhl and Glasnow. Nova is a lock also. Consider bringing up Eppler, Brault or Holmes in about 6 weeks when......Cole is traded for the best offer. Garret Cole is are best trade piece. He can still bring a top 50 hitting prospect. Not sure what position should be prioritized, but I would think 3b or an OF. Cole will never reach superstar status with the Pirates. He will only get more expensive, blow out his arm or start getting even more disgruntled with a rebuilding team. Time to get serious about moving Cole....like McCutcheon.
10) Bring up the young guns and go with them. Add to Rivero, and most anyone not named Watson....Listen to offers for Watson by the way. Too expensive and not a true closer.
11)....finally Hurdle and his coaches need to go now. This team needs new blood, someone fiery who will hold veterans accountable for lazy play and bad hitting and defensive approaches. Maybe Searge needs to go also, but the only working is our pitching staff. Not sure if he gets credit for that though.
I'm beyond frustrated as you can see. I don't see 75 wins this year. Last place at current pace (Reds and Brewers trending up and we are not).
I would rather see Osuna at first. He is more of a first baseman than Bell. Certainly better defensively. I agree with pretty much everything else on here except can Hurdle. This roster wasn't made to be in the play-offs coming out of ST. Now with Marte out, it certainly isn't. Management didn't do enough in the offseason to make this team better, so we are blaming the manager?
I pretty much agree with Arrowreb except that I too would move Osuna to 1st and Bell to the OF. I would add one more trade in addition to Cutch and Cole - I'd trade Polanco packaged with Harrision. The Pirates could reap a very very significant return. I'd rather trade Marte than Polanco, but he's blown a hole in his value. OF in 2018 - Meadows, Marte and Bell.
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rucker59@gmail.com
What would another GM do?
28212938364C0 wrote: Delusional. It's crazy to assign praise to a GM when players do well, and then assign blame to the players only when they do poorly. Sometimes, the very same players just later on.
There's no point to discussing it. It's irrational.
You guys are right. We should sell off and keep all the same FO pieces. They have nothing to do with team underperformance. It's the players and also the fans fault, I say
Neil's job has been reduced to trying to pull rabbits out of a hat. That's no way to run a baseball team and I feel certain he would rather be a traditional GM rather than a pretend-magician. But I wouldn't worry, I fully expect Neil to be the fall guy if the Pirates fall below .500 again and he'll be fired.
You are correct however about the fans - it is definitely the fans fault, the FO said as much. If we could just support the team like KC, or how about Cleveland.....
There's no point to discussing it. It's irrational.
You guys are right. We should sell off and keep all the same FO pieces. They have nothing to do with team underperformance. It's the players and also the fans fault, I say
Neil's job has been reduced to trying to pull rabbits out of a hat. That's no way to run a baseball team and I feel certain he would rather be a traditional GM rather than a pretend-magician. But I wouldn't worry, I fully expect Neil to be the fall guy if the Pirates fall below .500 again and he'll be fired.
You are correct however about the fans - it is definitely the fans fault, the FO said as much. If we could just support the team like KC, or how about Cleveland.....