While the terms of the contract could work out in the Pirates favor, I question if Hayes is really the building block that he is purported to be. Pirate announcers have generally sold him as a perennial all-star after he burst onto the major league scene, and that Arenado, Chapman, and a bevy of other good fielding third baseman better get ready to step aside in the gold glove competition.
I like Hayes, but he strikes me as a complementary player and not a good top of the order bat, and certainly not a middle of the order bat. Across parts of 6 minor league seasons, his OPS was 754; good, but not awe inspiring, In 2017 minor league plate appearances, he hit only 27 home runs from what should be a power position.
While the contract the Pirates just awarded to Hayes (and his agent negotiated on his behalf) would be considered a run-of-mill salary for most teams, with the Pirates, it likely may become a bench-mark for the top. While I'm sure that BC recognizes that the cost to obtain talent is considerably greater today than even 5 years ago, during yesterday's game Pirate announcers were giving a shout-out to Nutting for stepping up and awarding a big contract to help solidify the future of the Pirates.
I like Hayes, but if he hits only 10 - 15 HR's/year, while batting .280 with an OPS in the range of .750 over the next 3 years (his prime years), the Bucs really should be looking for a long-term alternative at third.
P.S. to Nutting - Bob, one player does not make a team. The contract management just awarded Hayes (which you obviously had to sign off on) is just the beginning of the type of contracts the team needs to award to be competitive. Also, one deal like this with a team payroll that is still south of $50 mil will not stop the Player's Association from rightfully pursuing action against the Pirates for failing to commit sufficient revenues to be more competitive.
Ke'Bryan
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
Ke'Bryan
7E525A5D5671465040330 wrote: While the terms of the contract could work out in the Pirates favor, I question if Hayes is really the building block that he is purported to be. Pirate announcers have generally sold him as a perennial all-star after he burst onto the major league scene, and that Arenado, Chapman, and a bevy of other good fielding third baseman better get ready to step aside in the gold glove competition.
I like Hayes, but he strikes me as a complementary player and not a good top of the order bat, and certainly not a middle of the order bat. Across parts of 6 minor league seasons, his OPS was 754; good, but not awe inspiring, In 2017 minor league plate appearances, he hit only 27 home runs from what should be a power position.
While the contract the Pirates just awarded to Hayes (and his agent negotiated on his behalf) would be considered a run-of-mill salary for most teams, with the Pirates, it likely may become a bench-mark for the top. While I'm sure that BC recognizes that the cost to obtain talent is considerably greater today than even 5 years ago, during yesterday's game Pirate announcers were giving a shout-out to Nutting for stepping up and awarding a big contract to help solidify the future of the Pirates.
I like Hayes, but if he hits only 10 - 15 HR's/year, while batting .280 with an OPS in the range of .750 over the next 3 years (his prime years), the Bucs really should be looking for a long-term alternative at third.
P.S. to Nutting - Bob, one player does not make a team. The contract management just awarded Hayes (which you obviously had to sign off on) is just the beginning of the type of contracts the team needs to award to be competitive. Also, one deal like this with a team payroll that is still south of $50 mil will not stop the Player's Association from rightfully pursuing action against the Pirates for failing to commit sufficient revenues to be more competitive.
I agree. If this isn't the beginning of a trend, then little will change. And I hope he will become an impact player for all or most of that contract but at this point it seems equally probable that could could become a franchise type player or just a solid player who hits 12 HRs and hits .265-.270 each year, which is about what Colin Moran gave them. Time will tell. In either case, it's always possible that he could be traded well before the end of that contract.
I like Hayes, but he strikes me as a complementary player and not a good top of the order bat, and certainly not a middle of the order bat. Across parts of 6 minor league seasons, his OPS was 754; good, but not awe inspiring, In 2017 minor league plate appearances, he hit only 27 home runs from what should be a power position.
While the contract the Pirates just awarded to Hayes (and his agent negotiated on his behalf) would be considered a run-of-mill salary for most teams, with the Pirates, it likely may become a bench-mark for the top. While I'm sure that BC recognizes that the cost to obtain talent is considerably greater today than even 5 years ago, during yesterday's game Pirate announcers were giving a shout-out to Nutting for stepping up and awarding a big contract to help solidify the future of the Pirates.
I like Hayes, but if he hits only 10 - 15 HR's/year, while batting .280 with an OPS in the range of .750 over the next 3 years (his prime years), the Bucs really should be looking for a long-term alternative at third.
P.S. to Nutting - Bob, one player does not make a team. The contract management just awarded Hayes (which you obviously had to sign off on) is just the beginning of the type of contracts the team needs to award to be competitive. Also, one deal like this with a team payroll that is still south of $50 mil will not stop the Player's Association from rightfully pursuing action against the Pirates for failing to commit sufficient revenues to be more competitive.
I agree. If this isn't the beginning of a trend, then little will change. And I hope he will become an impact player for all or most of that contract but at this point it seems equally probable that could could become a franchise type player or just a solid player who hits 12 HRs and hits .265-.270 each year, which is about what Colin Moran gave them. Time will tell. In either case, it's always possible that he could be traded well before the end of that contract.
Ke'Bryan
[Mackey] Ke'Bryan Hayes' contract structure, per source:
2022: $10M
2023: $10M
2024: $7M
2025: $7M
2026: $7M
2027: $7M
2028: $8M
2029: $8M
2030: $12M club option/$6M buyout
$70M guaranteed/$76M possible
https://twitter.com/JMackeyPG/status/15 ... 1997577216
2022: $10M
2023: $10M
2024: $7M
2025: $7M
2026: $7M
2027: $7M
2028: $8M
2029: $8M
2030: $12M club option/$6M buyout
$70M guaranteed/$76M possible
https://twitter.com/JMackeyPG/status/15 ... 1997577216
Ke'Bryan
7F3C253E2D38293F7F4C0 wrote: [Mackey] Ke'Bryan Hayes' contract structure, per source:
2022: $10M
2023: $10M
2024: $7M
2025: $7M
2026: $7M
2027: $7M
2028: $8M
2029: $8M
2030: $12M club option/$6M buyout
$70M guaranteed/$76M possible
https://twitter.com/JMackeyPG/status/15 ... 1997577216
I like the way this deal is done from a money management perspective. In no season will it be a big slice of the payroll and be an excuse or reason not to make other moves.
2022: $10M
2023: $10M
2024: $7M
2025: $7M
2026: $7M
2027: $7M
2028: $8M
2029: $8M
2030: $12M club option/$6M buyout
$70M guaranteed/$76M possible
https://twitter.com/JMackeyPG/status/15 ... 1997577216
I like the way this deal is done from a money management perspective. In no season will it be a big slice of the payroll and be an excuse or reason not to make other moves.
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Ke'Bryan
I had people telling me the same thing, nearly exactly, to McCutchen deal.
Ke'Bryan
While I questioned offering a long-term contract to Hayes, I like the way this contract is structured for the Pirates. I have often advocated that the Pirates pursue this approach in trying to attract free agent talent; particularly because the length of a contract for a free agent can become an issue and often when their production begins to tail off.
One potential downside to this approach is that if Hayes performs well, he and his agent will likely develop memory loss (how he was paid considerably more than market value up front)) when it comes to about year 4 and Hayes is earning much less than market value. I can forsee Hayes beginning to balk at earning a paltry $7 mil and demanding to renegotiate.
That said, all long term contracts have an inherent degree of risk, and I believe this contract works well for the current and future structure of Pirate payrolls.
One potential downside to this approach is that if Hayes performs well, he and his agent will likely develop memory loss (how he was paid considerably more than market value up front)) when it comes to about year 4 and Hayes is earning much less than market value. I can forsee Hayes beginning to balk at earning a paltry $7 mil and demanding to renegotiate.
That said, all long term contracts have an inherent degree of risk, and I believe this contract works well for the current and future structure of Pirate payrolls.
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- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Ke'Bryan
I don't understand the "u shaped" terms, TBH. If it works for both sides, it works for me.
I find it hard to believe that Hayes would agree to these terms, but he did. Good for the team, no question about it. It's today's game.
Now, let's see him earn it. He surely should.
I find it hard to believe that Hayes would agree to these terms, but he did. Good for the team, no question about it. It's today's game.
Now, let's see him earn it. He surely should.