Sure, it needs to be collectively bargained, but that goes back to a point I made earlier and someone I think before me-
All teams ratified the current agreement. That tells me that the few problem franchises are OK with the current arrangement.
MLB Needs Fixed
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
MLB Needs Fixed
373B3A6168616964637C66510 wrote: Many of us Pirates fans get upset, and frustrated when we see the team trade players such as Josh Bell, or Andrew McCutchen. The Pirates have had only 4 winning seasons in over 25 years of baseball. Today the Tampa Rays have traded Blake Snell their #1 starting pitcher, and they could be listening to trade proposals for centerfielder Kevin Kiermaier. Trading their star pitcher, and allowing Charlie Morton to sign with the Braves is so disappointing.
The Rays were the American League representative in this year’s World Series. Yes it was a shortened season, but they were AL Champions. The loss of these players will hinder any chances of a repeat in 2021.
After the 2021 season the agreement with the Players Association expires, and it is time that the small market teams band together to hammer out an agreement which permits all the teams to compete each year, and retain their star players in order to remain a competitive organization.
A few things ...
Tampa generally knows when to unload certain players. Don't cry for them. They do very well. They have a system that works. The development in that organization is first class and the GM is creative. TB got a ton in return for Snell. Keirmaeir is 30 years old and really hasn't done much in three years. He is a good defensive outfielder that is meh with the bat. I can think of better ways to use the money for him.
Sane Pirate fans know we should have traded Cutch and Bell. Don't know why those two names were brought up. Both were either on the decline or inconsistent as hell. Cole was a different story.
Small market teams have had success. Cleveland, Minnesota, Tampa, KC when they had those two back to back years including winning the title ... They all have or had good developmental programs; drafted well and added pieces to supplement the roster. Then you have the Pirates, who do nothing and continue to make the small market excuses.
Yes, Pittsburgh is a small market, but Bob Nutting is the ninth wealthiest owner in MLB. I'm sort of rooting for a cap with a floor in the area of 85 -90 million. That will put pressure on one major cheapskate who has been crying poor for the last several years despite making tons of money. Remember, the TV deals; the Disney check and revenue sharing paid for alot of things. He went two years without paying a dime.
The Rays were the American League representative in this year’s World Series. Yes it was a shortened season, but they were AL Champions. The loss of these players will hinder any chances of a repeat in 2021.
After the 2021 season the agreement with the Players Association expires, and it is time that the small market teams band together to hammer out an agreement which permits all the teams to compete each year, and retain their star players in order to remain a competitive organization.
A few things ...
Tampa generally knows when to unload certain players. Don't cry for them. They do very well. They have a system that works. The development in that organization is first class and the GM is creative. TB got a ton in return for Snell. Keirmaeir is 30 years old and really hasn't done much in three years. He is a good defensive outfielder that is meh with the bat. I can think of better ways to use the money for him.
Sane Pirate fans know we should have traded Cutch and Bell. Don't know why those two names were brought up. Both were either on the decline or inconsistent as hell. Cole was a different story.
Small market teams have had success. Cleveland, Minnesota, Tampa, KC when they had those two back to back years including winning the title ... They all have or had good developmental programs; drafted well and added pieces to supplement the roster. Then you have the Pirates, who do nothing and continue to make the small market excuses.
Yes, Pittsburgh is a small market, but Bob Nutting is the ninth wealthiest owner in MLB. I'm sort of rooting for a cap with a floor in the area of 85 -90 million. That will put pressure on one major cheapskate who has been crying poor for the last several years despite making tons of money. Remember, the TV deals; the Disney check and revenue sharing paid for alot of things. He went two years without paying a dime.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
MLB Needs Fixed
I believe that BOB has slipped in the rankings. I made the same comment as you when I was on a previous board and someone corrected me because some other clubs have been bought. He's still up there, but maybe around 11, 13. Point is- the guy's anything but poor.
But, KC is owned by a Walmart CEO. That's up there, too.
Cleveland and Minnesota are larger than The Burgh. Closer or smaller might be the Reds and Brew Crew; both in the division, too.
To your point- most clubs that have "bottomed out" also added talent to win. Does anyone see BOB getting a Jason Verlander? I don't. He'll get a Kate Upton. He's cheap. Unlike many teams that made it further, we topped out at the second round.
Cutch slipped, sure. Even so, he was still better than anyone to come after him. You can't improve until you have better players. Bell was no Cutch. I have only two issues with his trade. One- the return, and his salary is unlikely to be used for 2021 talent.
A floor? That dog quit hunting years ago. Give The Incompetent a blank check. All you'll get is a rich Incompetent.
But, KC is owned by a Walmart CEO. That's up there, too.
Cleveland and Minnesota are larger than The Burgh. Closer or smaller might be the Reds and Brew Crew; both in the division, too.
To your point- most clubs that have "bottomed out" also added talent to win. Does anyone see BOB getting a Jason Verlander? I don't. He'll get a Kate Upton. He's cheap. Unlike many teams that made it further, we topped out at the second round.
Cutch slipped, sure. Even so, he was still better than anyone to come after him. You can't improve until you have better players. Bell was no Cutch. I have only two issues with his trade. One- the return, and his salary is unlikely to be used for 2021 talent.
A floor? That dog quit hunting years ago. Give The Incompetent a blank check. All you'll get is a rich Incompetent.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3642
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
MLB Needs Fixed
It begins and ends with a leaguewide TV deal splitting the money. This is what every other major league does.
Without that, a higher salary floor would bankrupt many of the teams, or at least just force them to sign mediocre hasbeens to barely hit the threshold, remaining second rate year after year. The only way (or at least one way) teams in that situation can make a go at all is by going right to the bottom for a few years to gear up.
The guy from monopoly could own the Pirates and it would be almost the same, maybe being good once a decade or so.
If you don't like a Pirates example, take Nutting out of the equation and look at the KC Royals. They did everything right and made it to the top. Then they stink and it's not of their own doing. Do you think they'd have to tear apart the team if it happened to be in Chicago or NY?
I know none of this is news, but is far and away the most important issue in what's going on. It needs to be restated now and then because it shouldn't be pushed into the background. It's more "fun" and emotional and personal to complain about specific ownership, and a lot of the criticism if fair; but that's all secondary to the main problem.
Without that, a higher salary floor would bankrupt many of the teams, or at least just force them to sign mediocre hasbeens to barely hit the threshold, remaining second rate year after year. The only way (or at least one way) teams in that situation can make a go at all is by going right to the bottom for a few years to gear up.
The guy from monopoly could own the Pirates and it would be almost the same, maybe being good once a decade or so.
If you don't like a Pirates example, take Nutting out of the equation and look at the KC Royals. They did everything right and made it to the top. Then they stink and it's not of their own doing. Do you think they'd have to tear apart the team if it happened to be in Chicago or NY?
I know none of this is news, but is far and away the most important issue in what's going on. It needs to be restated now and then because it shouldn't be pushed into the background. It's more "fun" and emotional and personal to complain about specific ownership, and a lot of the criticism if fair; but that's all secondary to the main problem.
MLB Needs Fixed
The problem for baseball is that the main money is in local TV agreements. They share the national contract funds but that's a dribble compared to the local revenues teams like the Dodgers and Yankees get.
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SammyKhalifa
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- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
MLB Needs Fixed
I agree, but it takes two teams to play a game (even if one of the teams is the Dodgers).
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Bobster21
MLB Needs Fixed
75776D6B7D180 wrote: The problem for baseball is that the main money is in local TV agreements. They share the national contract funds but that's a dribble compared to the local revenues teams like the Dodgers and Yankees get.
Yes. I don't know how the NBA and NHL handle their broadcast rights but the NFL does not have local TV broadcasts. All games are handled by the networks with revenue equally shared. MLB has featured network games with the revenue equally shared but TV broadcasts are locally negotiated individually by teams with the size of the market a big factor in the revenue. MLB plays too many games to make it practical for total network coverage like the NFL. And AT&T Sports won't make the profit from the Prates that the broadcast networks for the Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox etc get. So there is a huge disparity in the rights fees and what advertisers will pay to sponsor games. I don't know if there is a solution to the MLB revenue disparity. They already have a "luxury tax" but that isn't helping the small markets. Especially if they don't put it into their payroll. A salary cap would help but likely would only increase the competition between all the big spenders who wouldn't be able to get the edge on the competition with one more huge contract acquisition. The Pirates, Orioles, Marlins, Rays, etc would still remain comfortably in their low payroll zone. And if a salary floor was proposed to counter that, even the small markets would be against it.
Yes. I don't know how the NBA and NHL handle their broadcast rights but the NFL does not have local TV broadcasts. All games are handled by the networks with revenue equally shared. MLB has featured network games with the revenue equally shared but TV broadcasts are locally negotiated individually by teams with the size of the market a big factor in the revenue. MLB plays too many games to make it practical for total network coverage like the NFL. And AT&T Sports won't make the profit from the Prates that the broadcast networks for the Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox etc get. So there is a huge disparity in the rights fees and what advertisers will pay to sponsor games. I don't know if there is a solution to the MLB revenue disparity. They already have a "luxury tax" but that isn't helping the small markets. Especially if they don't put it into their payroll. A salary cap would help but likely would only increase the competition between all the big spenders who wouldn't be able to get the edge on the competition with one more huge contract acquisition. The Pirates, Orioles, Marlins, Rays, etc would still remain comfortably in their low payroll zone. And if a salary floor was proposed to counter that, even the small markets would be against it.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
MLB Needs Fixed
All too true.
Maybe second on the list is- gate receipts. Not every franchise has the same pricing. That's an internal decision made by franchise management, and they probably know what their home market will bear. A luxury suite (where the big bucks are) in one city goes for more/less than a luxury suite somewhere else. There are probably more Fortune 500 presences in some areas than in others.
Then, you have the issue that New York City has two teams in the area, but a population of millions upon millions. it's far easier to sell out at Yankee or Citi than a place like Pittsburgh (not to be critical at all) that has one team, but a much lower population to draw from.
That's why I haven't seen anyone say that the Pirates should be expected to field the same kind of payroll as the Yankees or Dodgers...but, I remain unconvinced that we can only afford a bunch of LMGs, either. We have no way to know with certainty what is feasible and what is not.
Maybe second on the list is- gate receipts. Not every franchise has the same pricing. That's an internal decision made by franchise management, and they probably know what their home market will bear. A luxury suite (where the big bucks are) in one city goes for more/less than a luxury suite somewhere else. There are probably more Fortune 500 presences in some areas than in others.
Then, you have the issue that New York City has two teams in the area, but a population of millions upon millions. it's far easier to sell out at Yankee or Citi than a place like Pittsburgh (not to be critical at all) that has one team, but a much lower population to draw from.
That's why I haven't seen anyone say that the Pirates should be expected to field the same kind of payroll as the Yankees or Dodgers...but, I remain unconvinced that we can only afford a bunch of LMGs, either. We have no way to know with certainty what is feasible and what is not.