754057575C6557575C5B57320 wrote: So, let's look at the replay:
We were so poor that we "earned" the #1 pick in the draft. We used it to select Gerrit Cole.
Cole hangs around as required, with no intent to remain, so he is dealt. The Pirates deserve a pass. The guy wouldn't sign with the Astros. He sure wouldn't sign with the Pirates.
While here, we tasted a level of success, then did an about face rather than capitalizing on it because we didn't fill in the necessary blanks quite well enough. Didn't take long to take us out.
For Cole, we get Joe Musgrove and others.
Part of the reason that we are OK in dealing Cole is that we have young studs, including these Jamison Taillon and Josh Bell guys. They're supposedly part of this third, fourth (I've lost count) generation "rebuild" after dumping McCutchen, Cole, Marte, the kitchen sink.
The "rebuild" doesn't get built. Why not? Because, the next thing you know, we dump Bell, Musgrove, and and possibly Taillion, too- only faster than we traded Gerrit Cole.
While all of that goes on, we look forward to selecting some other kid.....#1 in the draft.
I guess we'll get better when we subtract talent THIS time. @@@@
We had the worst record in baseball last year with all those guys. Are you suggesting we should have tried again this year with them? For what? The #1 pick in next year's draft, too? We should be a lock to get that anyway.
Could Taillon Be The Next Buc Traded
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
-
GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Could Taillon Be The Next Buc Traded
I don't think we will do much until we add talent to the few talented players we have.
We didn't break that 20 consecutive losing seasons streak until we did it. We won't do it again.
If Taillon is good enough that the Yankees want him, then he's good enough for the Pirates. It's not as if the sales price is all that much.
If it is, then there's trouble.
We didn't break that 20 consecutive losing seasons streak until we did it. We won't do it again.
If Taillon is good enough that the Yankees want him, then he's good enough for the Pirates. It's not as if the sales price is all that much.
If it is, then there's trouble.
-
2drfischer@gmail.c
Could Taillon Be The Next Buc Traded
5E4E4F786E6E620D0 wrote: Couple guys reporting that the Yankees are negotiating re Taillon.
They are saying its close.
BC looking for prospects with upside. That tells me nothing in the top 10.
In this case, dealing Taillon to the Yankees, BC should accept nothing less than proven major league talent from them. They're loaded. Even they're bench players, and all the guys on their Injured List, are better than anyone on the Pirates roster.
If Cherington can't get a major league player, then he should let Taillon pitch here, take the risk that he'll stay healthy and do well, and then let the Yankees bid against the Dodgers, Mets, Cubs, Braves, etc for his services in July.
They are saying its close.
BC looking for prospects with upside. That tells me nothing in the top 10.
In this case, dealing Taillon to the Yankees, BC should accept nothing less than proven major league talent from them. They're loaded. Even they're bench players, and all the guys on their Injured List, are better than anyone on the Pirates roster.
If Cherington can't get a major league player, then he should let Taillon pitch here, take the risk that he'll stay healthy and do well, and then let the Yankees bid against the Dodgers, Mets, Cubs, Braves, etc for his services in July.
-
fjk090852-7
- Posts: 3495
- Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:52 pm
Could Taillon Be The Next Buc Traded
In my opinion this will not become an extended seasons of losing. During the twenty years of losing they did not acquire the talent that the current FO has acquired. Also in an interview with Ben Cherington after the Musgrove trade, he indicated they could sign a couple free agents who could be flipped at the July trading deadline. If so, additional young players could be added.
One final thought, Musgrove, Bell and Taillon each had two years remaining until free agency. We all know the Labor Agreement with the players expires this December. What if there is a lockout in 2022, or if there is a new Agreement which permits free agency 1 year earlier. In other words all 3 players would play only this season with the Pirates, and become free agents. Maybe BC figures in might be worthwhile to acquire some future players now because some of these players only have one year remaining until they can sign elsewhere.
One final thought, Musgrove, Bell and Taillon each had two years remaining until free agency. We all know the Labor Agreement with the players expires this December. What if there is a lockout in 2022, or if there is a new Agreement which permits free agency 1 year earlier. In other words all 3 players would play only this season with the Pirates, and become free agents. Maybe BC figures in might be worthwhile to acquire some future players now because some of these players only have one year remaining until they can sign elsewhere.
-
GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Could Taillon Be The Next Buc Traded
If 'extended' means something more than 20 years, then I agree with you.
-
Bobster21
Could Taillon Be The Next Buc Traded
He'll be traded before he can walk in free agency in 2023 so it's just a matter of time. :'(
-
fjk090852-7
- Posts: 3495
- Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:52 pm
Could Taillon Be The Next Buc Traded
467364646F5664646F6864010 wrote: If 'extended' means something more than 20 years, then I agree with you.
The losing seasons will be much less than 20 years. I am expecting an above .500 season in 2023 or 2024. This season will be tough, if they play in 2022 it will be a season with some good play but not enough to get over .500, but after 2022 we will watch some enjoyable games.
The losing seasons will be much less than 20 years. I am expecting an above .500 season in 2023 or 2024. This season will be tough, if they play in 2022 it will be a season with some good play but not enough to get over .500, but after 2022 we will watch some enjoyable games.
-
GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Could Taillon Be The Next Buc Traded
I operate under four assumptions:
That there will be no change in...
- Ownership
- Division Alignment
- The CBA (Significantly)
- The Manner In Which Playoff Teams are Determined
If those four things hold true, I truly don't anticipate much difference tomorrow and what we've seen today.
Huntington wasn't an idiot. Cherington's not super-human. Executives aren't perfect. Neither are they completely inept. All are somewhere between. They have good ideas. They have bad ones.
The one thing the two of them have in common is the same boss.
In the last eight years, they've had four winning seasons; making post-season play three of them.
In the past 29 years, they've had the same four winning seasons.
I think the future will fall somewhere between those two, as long as those four assumptions hold true.
Part of the future is----future salaries. Revenue will go up, but salaries go up, too. If one thinks that it's hard to keep talent today, wait.
That there will be no change in...
- Ownership
- Division Alignment
- The CBA (Significantly)
- The Manner In Which Playoff Teams are Determined
If those four things hold true, I truly don't anticipate much difference tomorrow and what we've seen today.
Huntington wasn't an idiot. Cherington's not super-human. Executives aren't perfect. Neither are they completely inept. All are somewhere between. They have good ideas. They have bad ones.
The one thing the two of them have in common is the same boss.
In the last eight years, they've had four winning seasons; making post-season play three of them.
In the past 29 years, they've had the same four winning seasons.
I think the future will fall somewhere between those two, as long as those four assumptions hold true.
Part of the future is----future salaries. Revenue will go up, but salaries go up, too. If one thinks that it's hard to keep talent today, wait.
Could Taillon Be The Next Buc Traded
447166666D5466666D6A66030 wrote: I operate under four assumptions:
That there will be no change in...
- Ownership
- Division Alignment
- The CBA (Significantly)
- The Manner In Which Playoff Teams are Determined
If those four things hold true, I truly don't anticipate much difference tomorrow and what we've seen today.
Huntington wasn't an idiot. Cherington's not super-human. Executives aren't perfect. Neither are they completely inept. All are somewhere between. They have good ideas. They have bad ones.
The one thing the two of them have in common is the same boss.
In the last eight years, they've had four winning seasons; making post-season play three of them.
In the past 29 years, they've had the same four winning seasons.
I think the future will fall somewhere between those two, as long as those four assumptions hold true.
Part of the future is----future salaries. Revenue will go up, but salaries go up, too. If one thinks that it's hard to keep talent today, wait.
So, a GM that traded a stud young CF; a young promising arm that more than likely wasn't going to develop here but would somewhere else and another prized prospect arm to Tampa for an arm that was on the decline isn't an idiot? The package NH gave up would have been the package Archer was worth at his prime.
That there will be no change in...
- Ownership
- Division Alignment
- The CBA (Significantly)
- The Manner In Which Playoff Teams are Determined
If those four things hold true, I truly don't anticipate much difference tomorrow and what we've seen today.
Huntington wasn't an idiot. Cherington's not super-human. Executives aren't perfect. Neither are they completely inept. All are somewhere between. They have good ideas. They have bad ones.
The one thing the two of them have in common is the same boss.
In the last eight years, they've had four winning seasons; making post-season play three of them.
In the past 29 years, they've had the same four winning seasons.
I think the future will fall somewhere between those two, as long as those four assumptions hold true.
Part of the future is----future salaries. Revenue will go up, but salaries go up, too. If one thinks that it's hard to keep talent today, wait.
So, a GM that traded a stud young CF; a young promising arm that more than likely wasn't going to develop here but would somewhere else and another prized prospect arm to Tampa for an arm that was on the decline isn't an idiot? The package NH gave up would have been the package Archer was worth at his prime.
-
GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Could Taillon Be The Next Buc Traded
That was a very bad trade. I'll agree on that part.
The man who made that trade also ended the twenty-consecutive-year losing streak and created a three-consecutive-year playoff streak by making other moves.
Which should show that nearly every GM who spends time in the role will make their share of good decisions and poor decisions.
The man who made that trade also ended the twenty-consecutive-year losing streak and created a three-consecutive-year playoff streak by making other moves.
Which should show that nearly every GM who spends time in the role will make their share of good decisions and poor decisions.