Official Game Thread - 6/10 - Bucs vs Dodgers

[MaineBucs]

With the end of another losing game, albeit a rain shortened one, I thought I would comment on some recent on-air comments by Pirate announcers that have been rolling around in my head.



During one particular recent broadcast Pirate announcers were fawning all over themselves regarding Shelton and his ability to manage a pen, and lauding his deft touch in knowing when to either insert or remove a reliever. In essence, they were suggesting that he has some innate ability to divine when to use a pitcher and they pointed to the success of the pen.



I don't drink much anymore, but it was enough to make me want to reach for a six pack to join the insanity.



Shelton, from where I sit (without a six pack), has a habit of both running through the pen with glee, or leaving folks in when it is clear that they are not the answer on the mound. I particularly dislike his habit of 'cleverly' working around the 3 batter minimum rule by yanking the guy on the mound with 2 outs and going to a new reliever when the new reliever likely will be replaced by a pinch-hitter the next inning. In and of itself this is not always bad, but Shelton all too often seems to believe if someone pitched one day (albeit a limited number of pitches), that they cannot pitch the next day; meaning that this one batter approach unnecessarily shortens the pen for the next game.



I understand that the home team announcers need to put out at least some positive vibes in what may be a historically bad season in which there is little hope for a better tomorrow, but crediting Shelton for astutely managing the pen is a bit much. While Shelton isn't the one on the mound who is pitching, he is the one who is deciding who should pitch (subject to interference/direction provided by the GM). As such, he needs to own in good times and bad, the outcomes of his decisions.



While the pen clearly has been better than the starting pitching, there are any number of times where it has failed and failed badly. Shelton has had a role in these failures.

[Bobster21]

0D21292E2502352333400 wrote: With the end of another losing game, albeit a rain shortened one, I thought I would comment on some recent on-air comments by Pirate announcers that have been rolling around in my head.



During one particular recent broadcast Pirate announcers were fawning all over themselves regarding Shelton and his ability to manage a pen, and lauding his deft touch in knowing when to either insert or remove a reliever.   In essence, they were suggesting that he has some innate ability to divine when to use a pitcher and they pointed to the success of the pen.



I don't drink much anymore, but it was enough to make me want to reach for a six pack to join the insanity.



Shelton, from where I sit (without a six pack), has a habit of both running through the pen with glee, or leaving folks in when it is clear that they are not the answer on the mound.  I particularly dislike his habit of 'cleverly' working around the 3 batter minimum rule by yanking the guy on the mound with 2 outs and going to a new reliever when the new reliever likely will be replaced by a pinch-hitter the next inning.  In and of itself this is not always bad, but Shelton all too often seems to believe if someone pitched one day (albeit a limited number of pitches), that they cannot pitch the next day; meaning that this one batter approach unnecessarily shortens the pen for the next game.    



I understand that the home team announcers need to put out at least some positive vibes in what may be a historically bad season in which there is little hope for a better tomorrow, but crediting Shelton for astutely managing the pen is a bit much.  While Shelton isn't the one on the mound who is pitching, he is the one who is deciding who should pitch (subject to interference/direction provided by the GM). As such, he needs to own in good times and bad, the outcomes of his decisions.



While the pen clearly has been better than the starting pitching, there are any number of times where it has failed and failed badly.  Shelton has had a role in these failures.
Based on the Pirates broadcasters' comments, I would expect Shelton to be inducted into the HOF yesterday. But IMHO he makes so many ill advised decisions that I think he is unqualified to manage a team. The only thing they can point to in support of him is the ERAs of his relievers. But even that doesn't address his poor decisions on how long to leave pitchers in. A big part of the announcers' job is to promote the team no matter how bad they are. So I guess we have to take the praise of this poor manager with a grain of salt.

[2drfischer@gmail.c]

A few weeks back, I felt it was best to pitch Keller every fifth day thoughout the season to see if he begins to establish himself as a reliable starter. However, his performances have shown no improvement since then. I don't think it's too much to ask that he shows progress. Now I'm thinking management needs to give him no more than a handful of additional starts to see if anything begins to click for him. After that, include him in any deals at the Deadline and wish him luck.

[GreenWeenie]

4B7570786B737378587D6A792E1C0 wrote: now they go to Bednar.



Shelton just can't see when a guy is done. The moment that ball got golfed by Bellinger, you knew he was done.



but no, let's just stay with him until it's a complete 5 alarm fire
Shelton wanted him to execute his pitches. 
I missed today's game. It appears that I didn't miss much
How many in a row have the bucs lost to LA


Is it 13 now?

[GreenWeenie]

496469787F6E79393A0B0 wrote: With the end of another losing game, albeit a rain shortened one, I thought I would comment on some recent on-air comments by Pirate announcers that have been rolling around in my head.



During one particular recent broadcast Pirate announcers were fawning all over themselves regarding Shelton and his ability to manage a pen, and lauding his deft touch in knowing when to either insert or remove a reliever.   In essence, they were suggesting that he has some innate ability to divine when to use a pitcher and they pointed to the success of the pen.



I don't drink much anymore, but it was enough to make me want to reach for a six pack to join the insanity.



Shelton, from where I sit (without a six pack), has a habit of both running through the pen with glee, or leaving folks in when it is clear that they are not the answer on the mound.  I particularly dislike his habit of 'cleverly' working around the 3 batter minimum rule by yanking the guy on the mound with 2 outs and going to a new reliever when the new reliever likely will be replaced by a pinch-hitter the next inning.  In and of itself this is not always bad, but Shelton all too often seems to believe if someone pitched one day (albeit a limited number of pitches), that they cannot pitch the next day; meaning that this one batter approach unnecessarily shortens the pen for the next game.    



I understand that the home team announcers need to put out at least some positive vibes in what may be a historically bad season in which there is little hope for a better tomorrow, but crediting Shelton for astutely managing the pen is a bit much.  While Shelton isn't the one on the mound who is pitching, he is the one who is deciding who should pitch (subject to interference/direction provided by the GM). As such, he needs to own in good times and bad, the outcomes of his decisions.



While the pen clearly has been better than the starting pitching, there are any number of times where it has failed and failed badly.  Shelton has had a role in these failures.
Based on the Pirates broadcasters' comments, I would expect Shelton to be inducted into the HOF yesterday. But IMHO he makes so many ill advised decisions that I think he is unqualified to manage a team. The only thing they can point to in support of him is the ERAs of his relievers. But even that doesn't address his poor decisions on how long to leave pitchers in. A big part of the announcers' job is to promote the team no matter how bad they are. So I guess we have to take the praise of this poor manager with a grain of salt.


I think that it boils down to that D Word again- Disclipline, and our lack of it.



Good teams have more of it. We don't.



Shelton doesn't strike me as a guy who instills a high sense of disciplined play. Maybe he does. He just doesn't strike me as such.



In a team like ours, I think Disciplined Play and approach is a good place to start. I think that it's fair to say that our talent won't overcome undisciplined play.

[Surgnbuck]

I just now caught it, Oviedo to the 10 day IL with a quad, and Cahill was reinstated.

[skinnyhorse]

3E323B36217D273A3E3C273B2A616313343E530 wrote: Keller is arguably the worst pitcher on a 14 man staff. Worse than the dumpster dive pickups. Worse than the rule 5 guy. His good games are the ones where he lasts 5 innings without getting crushed. Today was the 6th time in 12 starts that he didn't even go 4 innings. Where is the "stuff" that's supposed to make him a star? Pitchers who throw in the high 90s are now a dime a dozen. That seems to be all he's got. Arquimedes Caminero threw even harder than that. But he had a hard time getting batters out. I'm all for giving pitchers time to develop. But I really don't see any potential in Keller. Maybe our previous star pitcher in waiting Nick Kingham can get Keller a job in Korea. At age 29, Kingham has at last achieved mediocrity in the KBO. So maybe there's hope for Keller too.


I know everybody's leaning toward a position player in the draft now, but I'm thinking they should take Leiter. They surely can't count on Keller being part of a solid rotation in 2023-4 or whenever they think they're going to be good again.

I'm in agreement. He has the blood lines which makes me think he can be the real deal.

[GreenWeenie]

Now, we get to face a hot Milwaukee team- away.

[SteadyFreddy]

Keller said yesterday he is the most “pissed off” guy in the locker room right now and if he had an answer as to why he isn’t pitching good he would have figured it out by now. I know this team is going nowhere now at 23-38 but at this point I have no problem if they send a message to Keller and send him down and say look you’re not getting it done and maybe you have nothing to prove in AAA but if you want to stay up here and pitch on this level you know what do better. I’d have no problem if they did this at all and send at least some small message to Keller that what you are doing now just is not good enough and it needs to get better.

[bucs607179]

083D2A2A21182A2A21262A4F0 wrote: Now, we get to face a hot Milwaukee team- away. 


You can just taste a big losing streak coming upon us.