757C74656B110 wrote: So after an arguably horrible salary dump trade all we heard about was "financial flexibility". But we're not even a week into the off season after a terribly disappointing losing year and the Pirates are already crying poor claiming how "tight" the budget is?
How do these people get away with this?
What pitcher would you sign? As it stands Ivan Freaking Nova is going to get something like 5/70 million dollars from someone. Ivan Nova. I'd have just kept Liriano--no argument for me on that one.
I'd love them to make a signing as well. If not a trade though I'm hoping they don't do something stupid for the sake of proving to people like you that they are not trying to "get away with this."
My post wasn't about how they should spend or who they should sign......but rather the apparent cry of being poor almost immediately after dumping 13 million and two prospects for financial flexibility.
It gave them the flexibility to sign 34 year old, .270 13 hitting David Freese to a 3yr contract to either 1) Back up Kang 2) platoon at 1b. 3) start at first base inadequately, which is the Pirate way with 1st base.
Flexibility! The immense COST of starting pitching and their financial reasons for why they can't acquire someone is the exact same reason they shouldn't have salary dumped Liriano.
We can't salary dump a very talented, very successful LH starting pitcher who needs to rebound... for 17 million dollars and then turn around and say 17 million dollars doesn't buy us starting pitching. It makes no sense. (not that it matters)
We gave starting pitching away.
We gave a starting pitcher away because he wasn't acting like a decent starting pitcher; because he is expensive and didn't seem to care - or his body language sucked.
Huntington on the fan today...
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Huntington on the fan today...
I don't have that answer on who will be better.
But no way did I want to give up on 2016. Starting Liriano every fifth day was doing that. He was terrible.
I knew this trade would hurt 2017, the year I think they are built to really shine. Liriano was in that plan. Now, he is gone and needs replaced.
I don't get that talk that "they don't want to win" when he was traded because he was hurting the Pirates. Then the Pirates extended a bench player, something they rearely spend money on, but they still don't want to win? That thinking boggles my mind. They tried to win. They are still trying by extending Freese and Cervelli. They didn't have to pay those guys, right?
But no way did I want to give up on 2016. Starting Liriano every fifth day was doing that. He was terrible.
I knew this trade would hurt 2017, the year I think they are built to really shine. Liriano was in that plan. Now, he is gone and needs replaced.
I don't get that talk that "they don't want to win" when he was traded because he was hurting the Pirates. Then the Pirates extended a bench player, something they rearely spend money on, but they still don't want to win? That thinking boggles my mind. They tried to win. They are still trying by extending Freese and Cervelli. They didn't have to pay those guys, right?
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3631
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Huntington on the fan today...
05151423353539560 wrote:
We gave a starting pitcher away because he wasn't acting like a decent starting pitcher; because he is expensive and didn't seem to care - or his body language sucked.
Yes but he has gone through this not once but twice before. There was/is decent reason to believe it is going to be good again next year. Could be become Comeback Player of the Year an amazing three times? We'll see I guess.
We gave a starting pitcher away because he wasn't acting like a decent starting pitcher; because he is expensive and didn't seem to care - or his body language sucked.
Yes but he has gone through this not once but twice before. There was/is decent reason to believe it is going to be good again next year. Could be become Comeback Player of the Year an amazing three times? We'll see I guess.
Huntington on the fan today...
7B70787471706B2E285F667E777070317C701F0 wrote: I don't have that answer on who will be better.
But no way did I want to give up on 2016. Starting Liriano every fifth day was doing that. He was terrible.
I knew this trade would hurt 2017, the year I think they are built to really shine. Liriano was in that plan. Now, he is gone and needs replaced.
I don't get that talk that "they don't want to win" when he was traded because he was hurting the Pirates. Then the Pirates extended a bench player, something they rearely spend money on, but they still don't want to win? That thinking boggles my mind. They tried to win. They are still trying by extending Freese and Cervelli. They didn't have to pay those guys, right?
The desire to win is bringing in one or two guys that can get the team over the hump, not extending a 37 year old corner infielder at a high price that has lost power. I look at this as going through the motions. Trying is actually bringing in solutions and while bench players are important, it seems like we have a fetish on them and reclamation projects on the mound.
But no way did I want to give up on 2016. Starting Liriano every fifth day was doing that. He was terrible.
I knew this trade would hurt 2017, the year I think they are built to really shine. Liriano was in that plan. Now, he is gone and needs replaced.
I don't get that talk that "they don't want to win" when he was traded because he was hurting the Pirates. Then the Pirates extended a bench player, something they rearely spend money on, but they still don't want to win? That thinking boggles my mind. They tried to win. They are still trying by extending Freese and Cervelli. They didn't have to pay those guys, right?
The desire to win is bringing in one or two guys that can get the team over the hump, not extending a 37 year old corner infielder at a high price that has lost power. I look at this as going through the motions. Trying is actually bringing in solutions and while bench players are important, it seems like we have a fetish on them and reclamation projects on the mound.
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JollyRoger
- Posts: 1469
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:31 pm
Huntington on the fan today...
6A61696560617A3F394E776F666161206D610E0 wrote: So after an arguably horrible salary dump trade all we heard about was "financial flexibility". But we're not even a week into the off season after a terribly disappointing losing year and the Pirates are already crying poor claiming how "tight" the budget is?
How do these people get away with this?
What pitcher would you sign? As it stands Ivan Freaking Nova is going to get something like 5/70 million dollars from someone. Ivan Nova. I'd have just kept Liriano--no argument for me on that one.
I'd love them to make a signing as well. If not a trade though I'm hoping they don't do something stupid for the sake of proving to people like you that they are not trying to "get away with this."
My post wasn't about how they should spend or who they should sign......but rather the apparent cry of being poor almost immediately after dumping 13 million and two prospects for financial flexibility.
It gave them the flexibility to sign 34 year old, .270 13 hitting David Freese to a 3yr contract to either 1) Back up Kang 2) platoon at 1b. 3) start at first base inadequately, which is the Pirate way with 1st base.
Flexibility! The immense COST of starting pitching and their financial reasons for why they can't acquire someone is the exact same reason they shouldn't have salary dumped Liriano.
We can't salary dump a very talented, very successful LH starting pitcher who needs to rebound... for 17 million dollars and then turn around and say 17 million dollars doesn't buy us starting pitching. It makes no sense. (not that it matters)
We gave starting pitching away.
Liriano was terrible. Why do you want him back? What were you supposed to do with him in 2016? He was terrible. They were still in the 2016 hunt when he was traded. Liriano was hurting their 2016 chances. He wasn't going to the minors, he wasn't going to the bullpen. He was traded. Gone. He was awful.
Liriano was very good for 3 years inthe Bucs starting rotation. He was lights out and won our only victorious Wild Card game. He pitched poorly for 4 months this year and all of a sudden he is awful and beyond reclamation despite the fact that he has been a comeback player of the year. The FO has given Jeff Locke multiple years to get his act together and be more consistent.
To add salt to the self imposed wound; Liriano since being "traded" to the Blue Jays has a 2.92 ERA and won their WC game.
Looking at Toronto's lineup; it sure would have been nice to still have Martin, Bautista, Happ, and Liriano on our roster.
How do these people get away with this?
What pitcher would you sign? As it stands Ivan Freaking Nova is going to get something like 5/70 million dollars from someone. Ivan Nova. I'd have just kept Liriano--no argument for me on that one.
I'd love them to make a signing as well. If not a trade though I'm hoping they don't do something stupid for the sake of proving to people like you that they are not trying to "get away with this."
My post wasn't about how they should spend or who they should sign......but rather the apparent cry of being poor almost immediately after dumping 13 million and two prospects for financial flexibility.
It gave them the flexibility to sign 34 year old, .270 13 hitting David Freese to a 3yr contract to either 1) Back up Kang 2) platoon at 1b. 3) start at first base inadequately, which is the Pirate way with 1st base.
Flexibility! The immense COST of starting pitching and their financial reasons for why they can't acquire someone is the exact same reason they shouldn't have salary dumped Liriano.
We can't salary dump a very talented, very successful LH starting pitcher who needs to rebound... for 17 million dollars and then turn around and say 17 million dollars doesn't buy us starting pitching. It makes no sense. (not that it matters)
We gave starting pitching away.
Liriano was terrible. Why do you want him back? What were you supposed to do with him in 2016? He was terrible. They were still in the 2016 hunt when he was traded. Liriano was hurting their 2016 chances. He wasn't going to the minors, he wasn't going to the bullpen. He was traded. Gone. He was awful.
Liriano was very good for 3 years inthe Bucs starting rotation. He was lights out and won our only victorious Wild Card game. He pitched poorly for 4 months this year and all of a sudden he is awful and beyond reclamation despite the fact that he has been a comeback player of the year. The FO has given Jeff Locke multiple years to get his act together and be more consistent.
To add salt to the self imposed wound; Liriano since being "traded" to the Blue Jays has a 2.92 ERA and won their WC game.
Looking at Toronto's lineup; it sure would have been nice to still have Martin, Bautista, Happ, and Liriano on our roster.
Huntington on the fan today...
5C4C4D7A6C6C600F0 wrote: I don't have that answer on who will be better.
But no way did I want to give up on 2016. Starting Liriano every fifth day was doing that. He was terrible.
I knew this trade would hurt 2017, the year I think they are built to really shine. Liriano was in that plan. Now, he is gone and needs replaced.
I don't get that talk that "they don't want to win" when he was traded because he was hurting the Pirates. Then the Pirates extended a bench player, something they rearely spend money on, but they still don't want to win? That thinking boggles my mind. They tried to win. They are still trying by extending Freese and Cervelli. They didn't have to pay those guys, right?
The desire to win is bringing in one or two guys that can get the team over the hump, not extending a 37 year old corner infielder at a high price that has lost power. I look at this as going through the motions. Trying is actually bringing in solutions and while bench players are important, it seems like we have a fetish on them and reclamation projects on the mound.
where are Steve Kemp, Lee Mazilli, Sixto Liscano and Amos Otis when you need them? The Bucs tried to win by getting them via trade or free agency.
But no way did I want to give up on 2016. Starting Liriano every fifth day was doing that. He was terrible.
I knew this trade would hurt 2017, the year I think they are built to really shine. Liriano was in that plan. Now, he is gone and needs replaced.
I don't get that talk that "they don't want to win" when he was traded because he was hurting the Pirates. Then the Pirates extended a bench player, something they rearely spend money on, but they still don't want to win? That thinking boggles my mind. They tried to win. They are still trying by extending Freese and Cervelli. They didn't have to pay those guys, right?
The desire to win is bringing in one or two guys that can get the team over the hump, not extending a 37 year old corner infielder at a high price that has lost power. I look at this as going through the motions. Trying is actually bringing in solutions and while bench players are important, it seems like we have a fetish on them and reclamation projects on the mound.
where are Steve Kemp, Lee Mazilli, Sixto Liscano and Amos Otis when you need them? The Bucs tried to win by getting them via trade or free agency.
Huntington on the fan today...
0D2A3B3F3A27182C3B3A3A275E0 wrote: Did anybody listen to his interview today?? It was very discouraging to hear if anybody did in terms is of moves for next season. Huntington said the Bucs are pretty much going to operate on a "tight" budget once again next year and watch what they spend. He hinted toward an all young pitching rotation next season as well if they can't sign a veteran starter. I'm sorry but that's just unacceptable with the kind of year they just had. For Huntington to come on and say they have very little money to spend when they just got rid of both Melancon and Liriano's contracts which were pretty substantial is simply ridiculous. I've so had it with this organization not taking the necessary steps in order to get to the next level. This owner and his puppet GM have no desire to do so and the comments today prove that point totally.
So who do you sign and for how much?
So who do you sign and for how much?
Huntington on the fan today...
4A6C6D7A6C7C0F0 wrote: I don't have that answer on who will be better.
But no way did I want to give up on 2016. Starting Liriano every fifth day was doing that. He was terrible.
I knew this trade would hurt 2017, the year I think they are built to really shine. Liriano was in that plan. Now, he is gone and needs replaced.
I don't get that talk that "they don't want to win" when he was traded because he was hurting the Pirates. Then the Pirates extended a bench player, something they rearely spend money on, but they still don't want to win? That thinking boggles my mind. They tried to win. They are still trying by extending Freese and Cervelli. They didn't have to pay those guys, right?
The desire to win is bringing in one or two guys that can get the team over the hump, not extending a 37 year old corner infielder at a high price that has lost power. I look at this as going through the motions. Trying is actually bringing in solutions and while bench players are important, it seems like we have a fetish on them and reclamation projects on the mound.
where are Steve Kemp, Lee Mazilli, Sixto Liscano and Amos Otis when you need them? The Bucs tried to win by getting them via trade or free agency.
And all were pretty much passed their prime when we signed them. Look them up. They were on the decline if not already there. In all actuality, they were reclamation projects - just like what we target now.
But no way did I want to give up on 2016. Starting Liriano every fifth day was doing that. He was terrible.
I knew this trade would hurt 2017, the year I think they are built to really shine. Liriano was in that plan. Now, he is gone and needs replaced.
I don't get that talk that "they don't want to win" when he was traded because he was hurting the Pirates. Then the Pirates extended a bench player, something they rearely spend money on, but they still don't want to win? That thinking boggles my mind. They tried to win. They are still trying by extending Freese and Cervelli. They didn't have to pay those guys, right?
The desire to win is bringing in one or two guys that can get the team over the hump, not extending a 37 year old corner infielder at a high price that has lost power. I look at this as going through the motions. Trying is actually bringing in solutions and while bench players are important, it seems like we have a fetish on them and reclamation projects on the mound.
where are Steve Kemp, Lee Mazilli, Sixto Liscano and Amos Otis when you need them? The Bucs tried to win by getting them via trade or free agency.
And all were pretty much passed their prime when we signed them. Look them up. They were on the decline if not already there. In all actuality, they were reclamation projects - just like what we target now.
Huntington on the fan today...
565D55595C5D460305724B535A5D5D1C515D320 wrote:
Liriano was terrible. Why do you want him back? What were you supposed to do with him in 2016? He was terrible. They were still in the 2016 hunt when he was traded. Liriano was hurting their 2016 chances. He wasn't going to the minors, he wasn't going to the bullpen. He was traded. Gone. He was awful.
Liriano was a prime bounce back candidate....the type of pitcher the Pirates had success with. His salary wasn't unreasonable both in terms of money or years....so it would have been a safe gamble.
And what you know......since being traded he posted a sub 3.00 ERA for the Blue Jays with a 1.17 WHIP.
Combine that with the salary the Pirates will likely pay Hutchison....the two prospects surrendered and how the financial flexibility doesn't appear to be either "financial' or all that flexible. What a horrible trade.
Liriano was terrible. Why do you want him back? What were you supposed to do with him in 2016? He was terrible. They were still in the 2016 hunt when he was traded. Liriano was hurting their 2016 chances. He wasn't going to the minors, he wasn't going to the bullpen. He was traded. Gone. He was awful.
Liriano was a prime bounce back candidate....the type of pitcher the Pirates had success with. His salary wasn't unreasonable both in terms of money or years....so it would have been a safe gamble.
And what you know......since being traded he posted a sub 3.00 ERA for the Blue Jays with a 1.17 WHIP.
Combine that with the salary the Pirates will likely pay Hutchison....the two prospects surrendered and how the financial flexibility doesn't appear to be either "financial' or all that flexible. What a horrible trade.
Huntington on the fan today...
7A6A6B5C4A4A46290 wrote: So after an arguably horrible salary dump trade all we heard about was "financial flexibility". But we're not even a week into the off season after a terribly disappointing losing year and the Pirates are already crying poor claiming how "tight" the budget is?
How do these people get away with this?
What pitcher would you sign? As it stands Ivan Freaking Nova is going to get something like 5/70 million dollars from someone. Ivan Nova. I'd have just kept Liriano--no argument for me on that one.
I'd love them to make a signing as well. If not a trade though I'm hoping they don't do something stupid for the sake of proving to people like you that they are not trying to "get away with this."
My post wasn't about how they should spend or who they should sign......but rather the apparent cry of being poor almost immediately after dumping 13 million and two prospects for financial flexibility.
It gave them the flexibility to sign 34 year old, .270 13 hitting David Freese to a 3yr contract to either 1) Back up Kang 2) platoon at 1b. 3) start at first base inadequately, which is the Pirate way with 1st base.
Flexibility! The immense COST of starting pitching and their financial reasons for why they can't acquire someone is the exact same reason they shouldn't have salary dumped Liriano.
We can't salary dump a very talented, very successful LH starting pitcher who needs to rebound... for 17 million dollars and then turn around and say 17 million dollars doesn't buy us starting pitching. It makes no sense. (not that it matters)
We gave starting pitching away.
We gave a starting pitcher away because he wasn't acting like a decent starting pitcher; because he is expensive and didn't seem to care - or his body language sucked.
Exactly. The dude was done being here. Watch the games. Don't look at numbers (or do, he was aweful) His attitude was bad, he seemed to be uncoachable and these things create clubhouse issues.
I don't love McGuire going away, but I'm glad Franky's not a Pirate anymore.
How do these people get away with this?
What pitcher would you sign? As it stands Ivan Freaking Nova is going to get something like 5/70 million dollars from someone. Ivan Nova. I'd have just kept Liriano--no argument for me on that one.
I'd love them to make a signing as well. If not a trade though I'm hoping they don't do something stupid for the sake of proving to people like you that they are not trying to "get away with this."
My post wasn't about how they should spend or who they should sign......but rather the apparent cry of being poor almost immediately after dumping 13 million and two prospects for financial flexibility.
It gave them the flexibility to sign 34 year old, .270 13 hitting David Freese to a 3yr contract to either 1) Back up Kang 2) platoon at 1b. 3) start at first base inadequately, which is the Pirate way with 1st base.
Flexibility! The immense COST of starting pitching and their financial reasons for why they can't acquire someone is the exact same reason they shouldn't have salary dumped Liriano.
We can't salary dump a very talented, very successful LH starting pitcher who needs to rebound... for 17 million dollars and then turn around and say 17 million dollars doesn't buy us starting pitching. It makes no sense. (not that it matters)
We gave starting pitching away.
We gave a starting pitcher away because he wasn't acting like a decent starting pitcher; because he is expensive and didn't seem to care - or his body language sucked.
Exactly. The dude was done being here. Watch the games. Don't look at numbers (or do, he was aweful) His attitude was bad, he seemed to be uncoachable and these things create clubhouse issues.
I don't love McGuire going away, but I'm glad Franky's not a Pirate anymore.