Astros punished - Hinch Luhnow Fired

[DemDog]

0818192E3838345B0 wrote: Punishment isn't good enough.  Force the Astros to give the Pirates Bregman and Verlander and they have to pay the freight too.


;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[BenM]

6171704751515D320 wrote: Punishment isn't good enough.  Force the Astros to give the Pirates Bregman and Verlander and they have to pay the freight too.


I can already see the headline "Verlander announces retirement."

[2drfischer@gmail.c]

Kudos to Crane for doing the right thing, too, in firing those guys. It would've been easy to let the suspensions be the only punishment Luhnow and Hinch served. I wonder if Cora, and maybe even Beltran, will also be let go?

[iabucco]

Fairly small price for the owner. He got his WS and firing them is a good PR move. The $5m is chump change for an owner and the draft picks hurt but aren't terrible. I think the different sports leagues should probably review the punishments they can give to make it a bigger deal for organized cheating.

[DemDog]

6F676473656569060 wrote: Fairly small price for the owner.  He got his WS and firing them is a good PR move.  The $5m is chump change for an owner and the draft picks hurt but aren't terrible.  I think the different sports leagues should probably review the punishments they can give to make it a bigger deal for organized cheating. 


Wanna bet about the draft picks. Look at all the draft pix the Buccos lost with NH drafting? :'( :'( :'(

[fjk090852-7]

Sox have fired Cora.

[WiffleballHero]

I have long suspected some shenanigans similar to this going on at Miller Park. Granted, the Pirates have brought some really underwhelming pitching staffs with them to Milwaukee over the years, but it's been uncanny how well the Brewers would do against the Pirates. It's well known that place was a house of horrors for a long time, and the Pirates have been bad for a long time (aside from mid-decade). But the Brewers would hit some mammoth home runs off the Pirates at the most critical times. It just seemed like something was fishy there that didn't really carry over to other ballparks. It seemed like the Pirates were only tipping their pitches at Miller Park. Something seems to have been going on.



I dunno, just a hunch...

[Bobster21]

556B64646E6760636E6E4A67706D020 wrote: I have long suspected some shenanigans similar to this going on at Miller Park.  Granted, the Pirates have brought some really underwhelming pitching staffs with them to Milwaukee over the years, but it's been uncanny how well the Brewers would do against the Pirates.  It's well known that place was a house of horrors for a long time, and the Pirates have been bad for a long time (aside from mid-decade).  But the Brewers would hit some mammoth home runs off the Pirates at the most critical times.  It just seemed like something was fishy there that didn't really carry over to other ballparks.  It seemed like the Pirates were only tipping their pitches at Miller Park.  Something seems to have been going on.



I dunno, just a hunch...
Ok, that post sent me scurrying to the stats. The Brewers played the same amount of games vs each division foe. At Miller Park:



Pirate pitchers gave up: BA .281 SLG .491 OPS .879 HR 13



Cards pitchers gave up: BA .263 SLG .495 OPS .831 HR 19



Cubs pitchers gave up: BA .258 SLG .477 OPS .836 HR 20



Reds pitchers gave up: BA .248 SLG .432 OPS .791 HR 14



So at Miller Park, Pirate pitchers gave up the fewest HRs of any other NL Central pitching staff but also the highest BA against (.281). Cubs pitchers yielded 20 HRs and Cards gave up 19. Reds pitchers at Miller held Brewers to .248 BA and 14 HRs.



The Brewers hit just .246 as a team but .281 at home vs the Bucs. But at home vs the Reds they hit almost the same at .248. They hit better at home than their overall average vs Cards and Cubs but not as much as they hit the Pirates. But they hit the fewest HRs at home within their division games vs the Pirates.



IMHO, the stats don't suggest a huge advantage at home for the Brewers. Even if we thought their much better BA at Miller vs the Pirates might be related to sign stealing, it doesn't jive with them hitting the fewest HRs at home vs the Pirates despite Pirate pitchers giving up the 3rd most HRs in the NL. And of course as weak at the Pirate pitching was all season, there was no need to cheat to get an advantage vs the Bucs if they weren't doing it vs everyone else as well. But they didn't have a lot of success vs the Reds at home. The only thing that might look odd is that vs the Cubs at Miller, the Brewers hit 20 HRs despite Cub pitchers giving up the 3rd fewest HRs in the NL. But that's not much to go on to assume cheating.