44465C5A4C290 wrote: On TV, the announcers kept saying that Gonzalez's fielding was so good the position (shortstop) was his if his hitting was even half-decent. I didn't see it (but am no talent evaluator). I thought Tucker was a better fielder and the center field business was just to get him as many at-bats as they could, to see if anything could happen for him offensively.
sounds like another Mario Mendoza
Non-Tender Candidates
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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Bobster21
Non-Tender Candidates
57696C64776F6F6444617665000 wrote: On TV, the announcers kept saying that Gonzalez's fielding was so good the position (shortstop) was his if his hitting was even half-decent. I didn't see it (but am no talent evaluator). I thought Tucker was a better fielder and the center field business was just to get him as many at-bats as they could, to see if anything could happen for him offensively.
sounds like another Mario Mendoza
The Pirate announcers gushed over good plays. Looking for any ray of light in an awful season. But if you look at advanced fielding stats, Gonzalez was not one of the elite fielding SSs. In fact, during ST 2019 Hurdle had labeled him "erratic."
sounds like another Mario Mendoza
The Pirate announcers gushed over good plays. Looking for any ray of light in an awful season. But if you look at advanced fielding stats, Gonzalez was not one of the elite fielding SSs. In fact, during ST 2019 Hurdle had labeled him "erratic."
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BellevueBuc
- Posts: 343
- Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:41 pm
Non-Tender Candidates
1A373A2B2C3D2A6A69580 wrote: They seem enamored with Erik Gonzalez (for reasons that completely escape me). So I doubt his inclusion on that list will prove accurate.
yes, I wondered about him since he was a NH acquisition.
Neal liked to make sure the utility infielder position was well stocked, don't know if BC feels the same.
But they didn't use him in that role last year. They made him the starting SS and even moved Newman to 2B and Frazier to LF in order to play Gonzalez at SS instead of moving Gonzalez around.
Newman more than proved he is a terrible SS. Gonazlez is ok at short, but his bat is so bad there is no reason to keep him. Especially at 29 when better options are easily available. Orlando Arcia is younger and better, and would probably cost the same as keeping Gonzalez.
I am hoping they surprise me and sign Ha-Seong Kim.
I agree with you. But it just makes no sense how they used he and Tucker this year. They knew Gonzalez was arb eligible (as he was last year). So if they weren't going to pay him for 2021, why not experiment with shortstop Tucker at SS instead of pretending he's an OFer if they're going to need a SS in 2021?
I can understand giving Gonzalez a chance to do so well that they decide he's worth the money in 2021. But that didn't happen. He was still starting 14 of the final 16 games at SS (Riddle started 1 of the other 2 and he's gone now) while hitting .120 over that span. They should have known by then if he was worth paying for 2021 and if he wasn't, why not put Tucker at his normal position for the last week or so? And if they had already decided to write off Tucker (so why bother putting him at SS when Gonzalez was failing) then why even bother trying to make him an OFer? The logic of how they used their roster escapes me.
With Gonzalez' bad play and injuries, he was not going to get much in arbitration year 1. Year two he could double his salary. Cherington might have let the scouts get more time to see what he could do since he was basically still a league min player. I assume he leaned on them some since he was only with the team for a couple weeks before the tender deadline.
I agree on Tucker, no clue what they were doing there. I really do not get the obsession of this organization of using middle infielders in the OF. At least Tucker was in CF some, but the use of light hitting players on the corners is incredibly dumb, yet they keep doing it.
Tucker has not hit at all, Newman cannot handle short, so maybe they keep Gonzalez, but I think they can pick up a player just as good on a minor league deal, which I am sure is preferable.
yes, I wondered about him since he was a NH acquisition.
Neal liked to make sure the utility infielder position was well stocked, don't know if BC feels the same.
But they didn't use him in that role last year. They made him the starting SS and even moved Newman to 2B and Frazier to LF in order to play Gonzalez at SS instead of moving Gonzalez around.
Newman more than proved he is a terrible SS. Gonazlez is ok at short, but his bat is so bad there is no reason to keep him. Especially at 29 when better options are easily available. Orlando Arcia is younger and better, and would probably cost the same as keeping Gonzalez.
I am hoping they surprise me and sign Ha-Seong Kim.
I agree with you. But it just makes no sense how they used he and Tucker this year. They knew Gonzalez was arb eligible (as he was last year). So if they weren't going to pay him for 2021, why not experiment with shortstop Tucker at SS instead of pretending he's an OFer if they're going to need a SS in 2021?
I can understand giving Gonzalez a chance to do so well that they decide he's worth the money in 2021. But that didn't happen. He was still starting 14 of the final 16 games at SS (Riddle started 1 of the other 2 and he's gone now) while hitting .120 over that span. They should have known by then if he was worth paying for 2021 and if he wasn't, why not put Tucker at his normal position for the last week or so? And if they had already decided to write off Tucker (so why bother putting him at SS when Gonzalez was failing) then why even bother trying to make him an OFer? The logic of how they used their roster escapes me.
With Gonzalez' bad play and injuries, he was not going to get much in arbitration year 1. Year two he could double his salary. Cherington might have let the scouts get more time to see what he could do since he was basically still a league min player. I assume he leaned on them some since he was only with the team for a couple weeks before the tender deadline.
I agree on Tucker, no clue what they were doing there. I really do not get the obsession of this organization of using middle infielders in the OF. At least Tucker was in CF some, but the use of light hitting players on the corners is incredibly dumb, yet they keep doing it.
Tucker has not hit at all, Newman cannot handle short, so maybe they keep Gonzalez, but I think they can pick up a player just as good on a minor league deal, which I am sure is preferable.
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2drfischer@gmail.c
Non-Tender Candidates
6641484841525141665147240 wrote: They seem enamored with Erik Gonzalez (for reasons that completely escape me). So I doubt his inclusion on that list will prove accurate.
yes, I wondered about him since he was a NH acquisition.
Neal liked to make sure the utility infielder position was well stocked, don't know if BC feels the same.
But they didn't use him in that role last year. They made him the starting SS and even moved Newman to 2B and Frazier to LF in order to play Gonzalez at SS instead of moving Gonzalez around.
Newman more than proved he is a terrible SS. Gonazlez is ok at short, but his bat is so bad there is no reason to keep him. Especially at 29 when better options are easily available. Orlando Arcia is younger and better, and would probably cost the same as keeping Gonzalez.
I am hoping they surprise me and sign Ha-Seong Kim.
I agree with you. But it just makes no sense how they used he and Tucker this year. They knew Gonzalez was arb eligible (as he was last year). So if they weren't going to pay him for 2021, why not experiment with shortstop Tucker at SS instead of pretending he's an OFer if they're going to need a SS in 2021?
I can understand giving Gonzalez a chance to do so well that they decide he's worth the money in 2021. But that didn't happen. He was still starting 14 of the final 16 games at SS (Riddle started 1 of the other 2 and he's gone now) while hitting .120 over that span. They should have known by then if he was worth paying for 2021 and if he wasn't, why not put Tucker at his normal position for the last week or so? And if they had already decided to write off Tucker (so why bother putting him at SS when Gonzalez was failing) then why even bother trying to make him an OFer? The logic of how they used their roster escapes me.
With Gonzalez' bad play and injuries, he was not going to get much in arbitration year 1. Year two he could double his salary. Cherington might have let the scouts get more time to see what he could do since he was basically still a league min player. I assume he leaned on them some since he was only with the team for a couple weeks before the tender deadline.
I agree on Tucker, no clue what they were doing there. I really do not get the obsession of this organization of using middle infielders in the OF. At least Tucker was in CF some, but the use of light hitting players on the corners is incredibly dumb, yet they keep doing it.
Tucker has not hit at all, Newman cannot handle short, so maybe they keep Gonzalez, [highlight]but I think they can pick up a player just as good on a minor league deal, which I am sure is preferable.[/highlight]
When I suggested awhile back that the Pirates could likely find a young replacement for Polanco in a similar fashion, you dismissed the idea. I guess you now find that method is a possibility after all. And then you wanted me to name players who could fit the bill, but I see that you haven't held yourself to the same standard.
yes, I wondered about him since he was a NH acquisition.
Neal liked to make sure the utility infielder position was well stocked, don't know if BC feels the same.
But they didn't use him in that role last year. They made him the starting SS and even moved Newman to 2B and Frazier to LF in order to play Gonzalez at SS instead of moving Gonzalez around.
Newman more than proved he is a terrible SS. Gonazlez is ok at short, but his bat is so bad there is no reason to keep him. Especially at 29 when better options are easily available. Orlando Arcia is younger and better, and would probably cost the same as keeping Gonzalez.
I am hoping they surprise me and sign Ha-Seong Kim.
I agree with you. But it just makes no sense how they used he and Tucker this year. They knew Gonzalez was arb eligible (as he was last year). So if they weren't going to pay him for 2021, why not experiment with shortstop Tucker at SS instead of pretending he's an OFer if they're going to need a SS in 2021?
I can understand giving Gonzalez a chance to do so well that they decide he's worth the money in 2021. But that didn't happen. He was still starting 14 of the final 16 games at SS (Riddle started 1 of the other 2 and he's gone now) while hitting .120 over that span. They should have known by then if he was worth paying for 2021 and if he wasn't, why not put Tucker at his normal position for the last week or so? And if they had already decided to write off Tucker (so why bother putting him at SS when Gonzalez was failing) then why even bother trying to make him an OFer? The logic of how they used their roster escapes me.
With Gonzalez' bad play and injuries, he was not going to get much in arbitration year 1. Year two he could double his salary. Cherington might have let the scouts get more time to see what he could do since he was basically still a league min player. I assume he leaned on them some since he was only with the team for a couple weeks before the tender deadline.
I agree on Tucker, no clue what they were doing there. I really do not get the obsession of this organization of using middle infielders in the OF. At least Tucker was in CF some, but the use of light hitting players on the corners is incredibly dumb, yet they keep doing it.
Tucker has not hit at all, Newman cannot handle short, so maybe they keep Gonzalez, [highlight]but I think they can pick up a player just as good on a minor league deal, which I am sure is preferable.[/highlight]
When I suggested awhile back that the Pirates could likely find a young replacement for Polanco in a similar fashion, you dismissed the idea. I guess you now find that method is a possibility after all. And then you wanted me to name players who could fit the bill, but I see that you haven't held yourself to the same standard.
Non-Tender Candidates
4B6C65656C7F7C6C4B7C6A090 wrote: They seem enamored with Erik Gonzalez (for reasons that completely escape me). So I doubt his inclusion on that list will prove accurate.
yes, I wondered about him since he was a NH acquisition.
Neal liked to make sure the utility infielder position was well stocked, don't know if BC feels the same.
But they didn't use him in that role last year. They made him the starting SS and even moved Newman to 2B and Frazier to LF in order to play Gonzalez at SS instead of moving Gonzalez around.
Newman more than proved he is a terrible SS. Gonazlez is ok at short, but his bat is so bad there is no reason to keep him. Especially at 29 when better options are easily available. Orlando Arcia is younger and better, and would probably cost the same as keeping Gonzalez.
I am hoping they surprise me and sign Ha-Seong Kim.
I agree with you. But it just makes no sense how they used he and Tucker this year. They knew Gonzalez was arb eligible (as he was last year). So if they weren't going to pay him for 2021, why not experiment with shortstop Tucker at SS instead of pretending he's an OFer if they're going to need a SS in 2021?
I can understand giving Gonzalez a chance to do so well that they decide he's worth the money in 2021. But that didn't happen. He was still starting 14 of the final 16 games at SS (Riddle started 1 of the other 2 and he's gone now) while hitting .120 over that span. They should have known by then if he was worth paying for 2021 and if he wasn't, why not put Tucker at his normal position for the last week or so? And if they had already decided to write off Tucker (so why bother putting him at SS when Gonzalez was failing) then why even bother trying to make him an OFer? The logic of how they used their roster escapes me.
With Gonzalez' bad play and injuries, he was not going to get much in arbitration year 1. Year two he could double his salary. Cherington might have let the scouts get more time to see what he could do since he was basically still a league min player. I assume he leaned on them some since he was only with the team for a couple weeks before the tender deadline.
I agree on Tucker, no clue what they were doing there. I really do not get the obsession of this organization of using middle infielders in the OF. At least Tucker was in CF some, but the use of light hitting players on the corners is incredibly dumb, yet they keep doing it.
Tucker has not hit at all, Newman cannot handle short, so maybe they keep Gonzalez, but I think they can pick up a player just as good on a minor league deal, which I am sure is preferable.
________
Why on earth would it be preferable to replace a major league ball player with a minor league ball player. That is the exact opposite of what we should be doing - replace minor league ball players with major league ball players.
yes, I wondered about him since he was a NH acquisition.
Neal liked to make sure the utility infielder position was well stocked, don't know if BC feels the same.
But they didn't use him in that role last year. They made him the starting SS and even moved Newman to 2B and Frazier to LF in order to play Gonzalez at SS instead of moving Gonzalez around.
Newman more than proved he is a terrible SS. Gonazlez is ok at short, but his bat is so bad there is no reason to keep him. Especially at 29 when better options are easily available. Orlando Arcia is younger and better, and would probably cost the same as keeping Gonzalez.
I am hoping they surprise me and sign Ha-Seong Kim.
I agree with you. But it just makes no sense how they used he and Tucker this year. They knew Gonzalez was arb eligible (as he was last year). So if they weren't going to pay him for 2021, why not experiment with shortstop Tucker at SS instead of pretending he's an OFer if they're going to need a SS in 2021?
I can understand giving Gonzalez a chance to do so well that they decide he's worth the money in 2021. But that didn't happen. He was still starting 14 of the final 16 games at SS (Riddle started 1 of the other 2 and he's gone now) while hitting .120 over that span. They should have known by then if he was worth paying for 2021 and if he wasn't, why not put Tucker at his normal position for the last week or so? And if they had already decided to write off Tucker (so why bother putting him at SS when Gonzalez was failing) then why even bother trying to make him an OFer? The logic of how they used their roster escapes me.
With Gonzalez' bad play and injuries, he was not going to get much in arbitration year 1. Year two he could double his salary. Cherington might have let the scouts get more time to see what he could do since he was basically still a league min player. I assume he leaned on them some since he was only with the team for a couple weeks before the tender deadline.
I agree on Tucker, no clue what they were doing there. I really do not get the obsession of this organization of using middle infielders in the OF. At least Tucker was in CF some, but the use of light hitting players on the corners is incredibly dumb, yet they keep doing it.
Tucker has not hit at all, Newman cannot handle short, so maybe they keep Gonzalez, but I think they can pick up a player just as good on a minor league deal, which I am sure is preferable.
________
Why on earth would it be preferable to replace a major league ball player with a minor league ball player. That is the exact opposite of what we should be doing - replace minor league ball players with major league ball players.
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2drfischer@gmail.c
Non-Tender Candidates
627974757C707F110 wrote: They seem enamored with Erik Gonzalez (for reasons that completely escape me). So I doubt his inclusion on that list will prove accurate.
yes, I wondered about him since he was a NH acquisition.
Neal liked to make sure the utility infielder position was well stocked, don't know if BC feels the same.
But they didn't use him in that role last year. They made him the starting SS and even moved Newman to 2B and Frazier to LF in order to play Gonzalez at SS instead of moving Gonzalez around.
Newman more than proved he is a terrible SS. Gonazlez is ok at short, but his bat is so bad there is no reason to keep him. Especially at 29 when better options are easily available. Orlando Arcia is younger and better, and would probably cost the same as keeping Gonzalez.
I am hoping they surprise me and sign Ha-Seong Kim.
I agree with you. But it just makes no sense how they used he and Tucker this year. They knew Gonzalez was arb eligible (as he was last year). So if they weren't going to pay him for 2021, why not experiment with shortstop Tucker at SS instead of pretending he's an OFer if they're going to need a SS in 2021?
I can understand giving Gonzalez a chance to do so well that they decide he's worth the money in 2021. But that didn't happen. He was still starting 14 of the final 16 games at SS (Riddle started 1 of the other 2 and he's gone now) while hitting .120 over that span. They should have known by then if he was worth paying for 2021 and if he wasn't, why not put Tucker at his normal position for the last week or so? And if they had already decided to write off Tucker (so why bother putting him at SS when Gonzalez was failing) then why even bother trying to make him an OFer? The logic of how they used their roster escapes me.
With Gonzalez' bad play and injuries, he was not going to get much in arbitration year 1. Year two he could double his salary. Cherington might have let the scouts get more time to see what he could do since he was basically still a league min player. I assume he leaned on them some since he was only with the team for a couple weeks before the tender deadline.
I agree on Tucker, no clue what they were doing there. I really do not get the obsession of this organization of using middle infielders in the OF. At least Tucker was in CF some, but the use of light hitting players on the corners is incredibly dumb, yet they keep doing it.
Tucker has not hit at all, Newman cannot handle short, so maybe they keep Gonzalez, but I think they can pick up a player just as good on a minor league deal, which I am sure is preferable.
________
Why on earth would it be preferable to replace a major league ball player with a minor league ball player. That is the exact opposite of what we should be doing - replace minor league ball players with major league ball players.
Could it be because the ballplayers wearing Pirates uniforms aren't all really major league players?
yes, I wondered about him since he was a NH acquisition.
Neal liked to make sure the utility infielder position was well stocked, don't know if BC feels the same.
But they didn't use him in that role last year. They made him the starting SS and even moved Newman to 2B and Frazier to LF in order to play Gonzalez at SS instead of moving Gonzalez around.
Newman more than proved he is a terrible SS. Gonazlez is ok at short, but his bat is so bad there is no reason to keep him. Especially at 29 when better options are easily available. Orlando Arcia is younger and better, and would probably cost the same as keeping Gonzalez.
I am hoping they surprise me and sign Ha-Seong Kim.
I agree with you. But it just makes no sense how they used he and Tucker this year. They knew Gonzalez was arb eligible (as he was last year). So if they weren't going to pay him for 2021, why not experiment with shortstop Tucker at SS instead of pretending he's an OFer if they're going to need a SS in 2021?
I can understand giving Gonzalez a chance to do so well that they decide he's worth the money in 2021. But that didn't happen. He was still starting 14 of the final 16 games at SS (Riddle started 1 of the other 2 and he's gone now) while hitting .120 over that span. They should have known by then if he was worth paying for 2021 and if he wasn't, why not put Tucker at his normal position for the last week or so? And if they had already decided to write off Tucker (so why bother putting him at SS when Gonzalez was failing) then why even bother trying to make him an OFer? The logic of how they used their roster escapes me.
With Gonzalez' bad play and injuries, he was not going to get much in arbitration year 1. Year two he could double his salary. Cherington might have let the scouts get more time to see what he could do since he was basically still a league min player. I assume he leaned on them some since he was only with the team for a couple weeks before the tender deadline.
I agree on Tucker, no clue what they were doing there. I really do not get the obsession of this organization of using middle infielders in the OF. At least Tucker was in CF some, but the use of light hitting players on the corners is incredibly dumb, yet they keep doing it.
Tucker has not hit at all, Newman cannot handle short, so maybe they keep Gonzalez, but I think they can pick up a player just as good on a minor league deal, which I am sure is preferable.
________
Why on earth would it be preferable to replace a major league ball player with a minor league ball player. That is the exact opposite of what we should be doing - replace minor league ball players with major league ball players.
Could it be because the ballplayers wearing Pirates uniforms aren't all really major league players?
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BellevueBuc
- Posts: 343
- Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:41 pm
Non-Tender Candidates
6F747978717D721C0 wrote:
________
Why on earth would it be preferable to replace a major league ball player with a minor league ball player. That is the exact opposite of what we should be doing - replace minor league ball players with major league ball players.
Erik Gonzalez is a minor league ball player.
________
Why on earth would it be preferable to replace a major league ball player with a minor league ball player. That is the exact opposite of what we should be doing - replace minor league ball players with major league ball players.
Erik Gonzalez is a minor league ball player.
Non-Tender Candidates
0E292020293A39290E392F4C0 wrote:
________
Why on earth would it be preferable to replace a major league ball player with a minor league ball player. That is the exact opposite of what we should be doing - replace minor league ball players with major league ball players.
Erik Gonzalez is a minor league ball player.
So are basically everyone in the bullpen and the guy named Polanco plays like a minor leaguer.
________
Why on earth would it be preferable to replace a major league ball player with a minor league ball player. That is the exact opposite of what we should be doing - replace minor league ball players with major league ball players.
Erik Gonzalez is a minor league ball player.
So are basically everyone in the bullpen and the guy named Polanco plays like a minor leaguer.
Non-Tender Candidates
On the MLB site, they have a player for each team as a non-tender candidate.
A player I'd really like to see the Pirates go after if he is indeed set loose, is Gary Sanchez.
In fact, I think someone mentioned in a thread somewhere about keeping the pipeline of former Yankees catchers going.
A player I'd really like to see the Pirates go after if he is indeed set loose, is Gary Sanchez.
In fact, I think someone mentioned in a thread somewhere about keeping the pipeline of former Yankees catchers going.
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DemDog
Non-Tender Candidates
507671646D61766068030 wrote: On the MLB site, they have a player for each team as a non-tender candidate.
A player I'd really like to see the Pirates go after if he is indeed set loose, is Gary Sanchez.
In fact, I think someone mentioned in a thread somewhere about keeping the pipeline of former Yankees catchers going.
This same thought ran through my mind. He is a big K machine but when he hits the ball it can go far and he is not a bad fielding catcher. I wish he was a lefty swinger so he could platoon with Stallings. And most importantly, how much will he cost salary wise?
A player I'd really like to see the Pirates go after if he is indeed set loose, is Gary Sanchez.
In fact, I think someone mentioned in a thread somewhere about keeping the pipeline of former Yankees catchers going.
This same thought ran through my mind. He is a big K machine but when he hits the ball it can go far and he is not a bad fielding catcher. I wish he was a lefty swinger so he could platoon with Stallings. And most importantly, how much will he cost salary wise?