Despite some dreadful fielding, the Bucs thrash the Angels and Mitch Keller gets his first win pitching 5 innings will giving up just 1 earned run.
Reaction on this Board. One post about the win in an unrelated thread from Jolly Roger who personally saw what could be one the team's few wins for the rest of the season.
So --- how has ownership's and management's failures affected the fan base?
Even dedicated fans begin to tune out and not care.
That said, a couple of comments on the game.
1) Keller did okay. Threw too many pitches for only 5 innings of work, but he was rarely in deep trouble and kept the ball in the park.
2) Really nice 3 innings of work by Stratton.
3) Oh, once again the Bucs use Vasquez in a blow-out just because he needed the work. What a waste.
4) Nice to see Bell continuing to display some power. He had a truly dreadful July and early August, but 30 HR and nearly 100 RBI's with 40+ games still in the season is an amazing accomplishment.
How does this dreadful losing streak affect fans?
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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Bobster21
How does this dreadful losing streak affect fans?
I think the lack of comments about the game has a great deal to do with the 10 pm start. I'm sure very few saw it. I saw some replays this morning but didn't stay up for the game. Another factor is that the recent disastrous month's worth of games has rendered even a win moot at this point. So unless wins become more consistent, praise for the rare days when they don't lose doesn't come easy.
That said, it was a nice win, even if it turns out to be a mirage in a desert of losses. Bell seems to have found his swing again and that would be huge for the remaining games. Reynolds hit his 12th HR and it's always nice to see guys like Newman and Stallings go deep. Stallings has really turned his career around this year and has gone from a AAA insurance policy to a valuable-and possibly starting-MLB catcher. Keller needed to have a good start and he did, even if it just lasted 5 innings on 94 pitches. And kudos for 3 very solid innings of relief from the ex-Angel Stratton. His ERA for the Angels this year was 8.59. It's 2.55 as a Pirate. And how astute of Hurdle to realize that relievers don't have to be restricted to 1 inning. Dare we hope now for a 2-game winning streak???
That said, it was a nice win, even if it turns out to be a mirage in a desert of losses. Bell seems to have found his swing again and that would be huge for the remaining games. Reynolds hit his 12th HR and it's always nice to see guys like Newman and Stallings go deep. Stallings has really turned his career around this year and has gone from a AAA insurance policy to a valuable-and possibly starting-MLB catcher. Keller needed to have a good start and he did, even if it just lasted 5 innings on 94 pitches. And kudos for 3 very solid innings of relief from the ex-Angel Stratton. His ERA for the Angels this year was 8.59. It's 2.55 as a Pirate. And how astute of Hurdle to realize that relievers don't have to be restricted to 1 inning. Dare we hope now for a 2-game winning streak???
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UtahPirate
- Posts: 582
- Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:36 pm
How does this dreadful losing streak affect fans?
032E23323524337370410 wrote: Dare we hope now for a 2-game winning streak???
We dare! We are 11-4 against the AL. Go figure ...
We dare! We are 11-4 against the AL. Go figure ...
How does this dreadful losing streak affect fans?
We should put in for an AL transfer similar to the Astros. That way Bell could DH for us full-time and we would win a WS in less than 5 years. LOL. ;D
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rucker59@gmail.com
How does this dreadful losing streak affect fans?
I thought about starting a thread about midnight. It was going to try to turn the page from “no hope” to how does this get rebuilt?
So I’ll explore a few of my thoughts.
First, this season blows up the BS that the Pirates are working a different model that all the other teams. The BS that we plan to compete every year is now nothing more than bird cage liner. The Pirates squandered a couple of truly good teams by refusing to go all in. That accomplished nothing. The light has been shown on that BS.
2). This is not a team to build around. Neal or whoever the GM is now goes into the offseason having to act like a real GM. A lot of parts are going to be moved. A lot of new faces have to arrive. This will be an interesting off season if nothing else.
3) while they don’t have enough to build around they do have a few good looking pieces. The biggest question facing this organization is who stays. It’s easy to list the good looking pieces and assume they are the beginning of a new team: Bell, Newman, Reynolds are young, hard to replace AND extremely valuable on the trade market. Marte is at his absolute highest value. Keller is an unknown that would return significant value. Even Stallings would return decent value. Nightmare is a gold mine.
That’s 5 position players, one starter and one closer. That is a good looking group with no hope unless something totally unexpected happens this winter.
4) we know we have Frazier, Tucker, Moran, Diaz and Polanco next year. There is no extra return in any of them but all are good enough to fill a spot.
5) the pitching is a mess. It would be hard to fix it with a lot of money. Next to impossible with Nutting.
So how does this team best “start over”? There are a few options and in the hands of a good GM maybe something good is possible.
So I’ll explore a few of my thoughts.
First, this season blows up the BS that the Pirates are working a different model that all the other teams. The BS that we plan to compete every year is now nothing more than bird cage liner. The Pirates squandered a couple of truly good teams by refusing to go all in. That accomplished nothing. The light has been shown on that BS.
2). This is not a team to build around. Neal or whoever the GM is now goes into the offseason having to act like a real GM. A lot of parts are going to be moved. A lot of new faces have to arrive. This will be an interesting off season if nothing else.
3) while they don’t have enough to build around they do have a few good looking pieces. The biggest question facing this organization is who stays. It’s easy to list the good looking pieces and assume they are the beginning of a new team: Bell, Newman, Reynolds are young, hard to replace AND extremely valuable on the trade market. Marte is at his absolute highest value. Keller is an unknown that would return significant value. Even Stallings would return decent value. Nightmare is a gold mine.
That’s 5 position players, one starter and one closer. That is a good looking group with no hope unless something totally unexpected happens this winter.
4) we know we have Frazier, Tucker, Moran, Diaz and Polanco next year. There is no extra return in any of them but all are good enough to fill a spot.
5) the pitching is a mess. It would be hard to fix it with a lot of money. Next to impossible with Nutting.
So how does this team best “start over”? There are a few options and in the hands of a good GM maybe something good is possible.
How does this dreadful losing streak affect fans?
on another board (Bucs Dugout) there have been a lot of comments about how poor defensively Moran is, mostly for lack of range. That he just can't handle third base especially when Bell is at first.
Two below average infielders can't cut it unless they have great bats.
This year it looks like Bell has the bat. Moran looked like he might have a good enough bat for awhile.
But to me, Moran's spot has to be filled by someone, maybe Hayes defense is good enough that the downgrade from Moran's bat will be at least matched with idea Hayes could improve with more experience.
The Bucs need to find at least one good lefthanded starting pitcher. This is a big failure of NH's regime. The Bucs don't draft many lefthanded pitchers which is senseless considering the team plays in PNC Park.
The team needs to find another catcher. Hard to believe that after the disastrous year (2011) where Fort had to be acquired that NH would ever let the Bucs be this thin at catching again. But he has.
There are a lot of possible improvements that can be made for next year.
IF NH stays (and I hope he doesn't) he can't go into the next season planning on everything going right. If Bell, Reynolds and Newman wouldn't have broken out in the first half this season the team would probably have a several more losses.
I don't think anybody in the front office expected the kind of seasons these guys have produced this year for one of them let alone all three. That is a problem right there.
Two below average infielders can't cut it unless they have great bats.
This year it looks like Bell has the bat. Moran looked like he might have a good enough bat for awhile.
But to me, Moran's spot has to be filled by someone, maybe Hayes defense is good enough that the downgrade from Moran's bat will be at least matched with idea Hayes could improve with more experience.
The Bucs need to find at least one good lefthanded starting pitcher. This is a big failure of NH's regime. The Bucs don't draft many lefthanded pitchers which is senseless considering the team plays in PNC Park.
The team needs to find another catcher. Hard to believe that after the disastrous year (2011) where Fort had to be acquired that NH would ever let the Bucs be this thin at catching again. But he has.
There are a lot of possible improvements that can be made for next year.
IF NH stays (and I hope he doesn't) he can't go into the next season planning on everything going right. If Bell, Reynolds and Newman wouldn't have broken out in the first half this season the team would probably have a several more losses.
I don't think anybody in the front office expected the kind of seasons these guys have produced this year for one of them let alone all three. That is a problem right there.
How does this dreadful losing streak affect fans?
I miss the August waiver period.
If this were last year, the Bucs could try to move Cabrera and Liriano (which would be a benefit to them) and receive small return. While you could argue that the Bucs get the benefit of their services through the end of the season, in a season that has turned to hopelessness, why force a veteran player to remain in a situation like Pittsburgh.
And, although it is highly unlikely that this situation would unfold this year, if by some miracle Cervelli can return to catching, someone may have been willing to pick him up for a month or so to bolster their catching down the stretch and provide a veteran bat off the bench.
Frankly, I don't see who the new August waiver rules benefit, particularly with all of the injuries that are ailing contending major league teams. Perhaps a better approach would be to simply extend the trade deadline to at least August 15, if not August 31; no waivers required.
If this were last year, the Bucs could try to move Cabrera and Liriano (which would be a benefit to them) and receive small return. While you could argue that the Bucs get the benefit of their services through the end of the season, in a season that has turned to hopelessness, why force a veteran player to remain in a situation like Pittsburgh.
And, although it is highly unlikely that this situation would unfold this year, if by some miracle Cervelli can return to catching, someone may have been willing to pick him up for a month or so to bolster their catching down the stretch and provide a veteran bat off the bench.
Frankly, I don't see who the new August waiver rules benefit, particularly with all of the injuries that are ailing contending major league teams. Perhaps a better approach would be to simply extend the trade deadline to at least August 15, if not August 31; no waivers required.
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Bobster21
How does this dreadful losing streak affect fans?
103C3433381F283E2E5D0 wrote: I miss the August waiver period.
If this were last year, the Bucs could try to move Cabrera and Liriano (which would be a benefit to them) and receive small return. While you could argue that the Bucs get the benefit of their services through the end of the season, in a season that has turned to hopelessness, why force a veteran player to remain in a situation like Pittsburgh.
And, although it is highly unlikely that this situation would unfold this year, if by some miracle Cervelli can return to catching, someone may have been willing to pick him up for a month or so to bolster their catching down the stretch and provide a veteran bat off the bench.
Frankly, I don't see who the new August waiver rules benefit, particularly with all of the injuries that are ailing contending major league teams. Perhaps a better approach would be to simply extend the trade deadline to at least August 15, if not August 31; no waivers required.
Players can still be waived after July 31 and if claimed prior to August 31, could still be eligible for post season play. Two years ago they waived Nicasio just to save about $600,000 so they may still waive Cabrera and/or Liriano to save a few bucks and give them a chance to go to a competitive team before the season ends.
If this were last year, the Bucs could try to move Cabrera and Liriano (which would be a benefit to them) and receive small return. While you could argue that the Bucs get the benefit of their services through the end of the season, in a season that has turned to hopelessness, why force a veteran player to remain in a situation like Pittsburgh.
And, although it is highly unlikely that this situation would unfold this year, if by some miracle Cervelli can return to catching, someone may have been willing to pick him up for a month or so to bolster their catching down the stretch and provide a veteran bat off the bench.
Frankly, I don't see who the new August waiver rules benefit, particularly with all of the injuries that are ailing contending major league teams. Perhaps a better approach would be to simply extend the trade deadline to at least August 15, if not August 31; no waivers required.
Players can still be waived after July 31 and if claimed prior to August 31, could still be eligible for post season play. Two years ago they waived Nicasio just to save about $600,000 so they may still waive Cabrera and/or Liriano to save a few bucks and give them a chance to go to a competitive team before the season ends.
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UtahPirate
- Posts: 582
- Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:36 pm
How does this dreadful losing streak affect fans?
Traditionally players look forward to becoming a free agent. It's their chance for that big contract and big money.
Last year that was only true for a few high-priced stars. Middle of the road players, who were pretty decent, were either left without contracts, or playing on the cheap with single year contracts to try and improve their value for next year. How will that affect the FA market this year. It would seem that the result might be to drive either salaries down, or the length of contracts down.
With GMs holding so tightly to their better prospects, has the middle-tier FA market become a place where you can find some value, or the pieces to fill in around some fairly good younger players that we seem to have? You know we seem to try (or at least we claim) to hunt for good value. Will there actually be value in the FA market?
I know this may be heresy, but is Nutting going to let this completely die, or at long last open a few purse strings to bring in some players that might make a difference? I stand positive that it wouldn't be a significant FA, but I don't think you get this resurrected with only trades. A few well-placed trades and some decent FA signings, especially a couple of established starters seems to be the most obvious track.
Again (I know), I'm suggesting that the Pirates do something that has not happened under Neal or Nutting's ownership. But you've lost the fans and even if there is a new GM, you can't keep operating this team like it has been and expect fans to fill seats. Next year looks bleak. Spending a little more money than what's been done historically would go a long, long way and reframe the ownership message (which is the core problem!).
Last year that was only true for a few high-priced stars. Middle of the road players, who were pretty decent, were either left without contracts, or playing on the cheap with single year contracts to try and improve their value for next year. How will that affect the FA market this year. It would seem that the result might be to drive either salaries down, or the length of contracts down.
With GMs holding so tightly to their better prospects, has the middle-tier FA market become a place where you can find some value, or the pieces to fill in around some fairly good younger players that we seem to have? You know we seem to try (or at least we claim) to hunt for good value. Will there actually be value in the FA market?
I know this may be heresy, but is Nutting going to let this completely die, or at long last open a few purse strings to bring in some players that might make a difference? I stand positive that it wouldn't be a significant FA, but I don't think you get this resurrected with only trades. A few well-placed trades and some decent FA signings, especially a couple of established starters seems to be the most obvious track.
Again (I know), I'm suggesting that the Pirates do something that has not happened under Neal or Nutting's ownership. But you've lost the fans and even if there is a new GM, you can't keep operating this team like it has been and expect fans to fill seats. Next year looks bleak. Spending a little more money than what's been done historically would go a long, long way and reframe the ownership message (which is the core problem!).