Game Thread 8/20 - Bucs vs Indians

[2drfischer@gmail.c]

2E363433332435322F2E385D0 wrote: So many issues. [highlight]Are they using this mini-season to evaluate?[/highlight] Seems they are. How else to explain bizarre pitching decisions like lifting effective pitchers so guys like Neverauskas can pitch. And constant lineup and position switches. So why is utility guy Gonzalez never evaluated at 2B? Once again they move Newman out of position to 2B to give SS to Gonzalez. Are they evaluation Newman at 2B? Then why not EVER put Tucker at SS? And why not put Frazier in the OF if they want to see if Newman can handle 2B? That would enable them to put Tucker in CF if they are so dead set against him at SS instead of putting Tucker in RF tonight so that Dyson, who has no future with the team and cannot hit anyway, can take up space in CF.



The only conclusion I can reach is that these games are being use to evaluate but they are doing a really half-a$$ed job of it.


It had to be their intention to spend at least the first four to six months evaluating not just the 40-man roster, but all of the players in the organization.  As the rest of your post points out, their methods have fallen between head-scratching and downright bizarre.  There's no question the virus shutting down the season for four months hurt their processes tremendously, especially being a new administration, but we've been past that for over a month now.  There are no excuses for the poor job in every phase since they've been back together.



It leads me to think that their decisions have either been intentional, in order to not win games, or they have no idea what they're doing. Either one is unacceptable but, if they're completely incompetent, that's a more grave issue.  We'll be forced to watch this for at least three more years before another change is made to the Front Office, and then who among us will believe or trust a capable group will be hired to replace these guys.



The problems with the Pirates go far beyond the major league team.  The entire organization is deathly sick with no apparent immediate or long-term plan in place to get better.  As we all know, the main reason is the owner, the one aspect hardest to change.  Until he either changes his priority to win, which he's proven he won't, or he and his family no longer owns the franchise, the situation will remain mostly as it is.  Since he has no incentive to win or to change, seasons like the past five will be common, regardless of who's in charge of baseball operations.  Those people simply will not be given the tools to succeed.



I don't know Cherington's reasons for coming here.  With just 30 GM jobs available, the lure has to be intoxicating for people like him.  I'm going to continue to believe that he's a better talent evaluator than Huntington was because it has to be impossible to be worse.  I don't know if he'll be able to succeed but I think he should get more time than nine months.  As for Shelton, I won't even try to justify what he's doing.
I'm of the opinion that the city and community of Pittsburg could put pressure on Nutting and you would think they would be all over this.  It's costing the community millions no one is going to come watch this pitiful excuse and I think it could make it unprofitable for Nutting to continue to operate in Pittsburg.  If it's so obvious his ownership is destroying the team.  Why wouldn't the businesses in Pittsburg lay down the law to Nutting.


You make an interesting point. The Pirates sales pitch to the community for a new ballpark 25 years ago centered around having luxury boxes to sell, which would increase revenues to the point where the club could hold onto its best players and be more competitive in the free agent market. We're still waiting for either of those things to happen. I suspect if Nutting were called out by important local business people, he'd take no action. I don't think the man can be shamed. I don't know if the city/county government can take legal action against him but I'd like to see a full-on effort by both local businesses and the government to force his hand. The taxpayers of this area and state provided him a place to conduct business, there should be some way he can be made to operate in good faith.

[Bobster21]

You have to wonder why Nutting bothered to change his team president, GM and mgr. Winning doesn't interest him enough to increase spending (or even to simply stop reducing it). And he's not going to give his new regime enough money to make any significant improvements.



So the regime change could only have been to give the appearance of an attempt to improve the team and the only reason for such a subterfuge is to make money. Of course the pandemic ruined whatever chance he had of getting season ticket holders to buy into his ruse. But next year and beyond, he wants the community to put their money in his pockets. And not supporting him is the only way he'll get the message that he needs to do more than just try to fool the fans.

[Ecbucs]

436E63727564733330010 wrote: You have to wonder why Nutting bothered to change his team president, GM and mgr. Winning doesn't interest him enough to increase spending (or even to simply stop reducing it). And he's not going to give his new regime enough money to make any significant improvements.



So the regime change could only have been to give the appearance of an attempt to improve the team and the only reason for such a subterfuge is to make money. Of course the pandemic ruined whatever chance he had of getting season ticket holders to buy into his ruse. But next year and beyond, he wants the community to put their money in his pockets. And not supporting him is the only way he'll get the message that he needs to do more than just try to fool the fans. 




maybe the calculation is that I can pay 2 presidents and GM's for a year or two and look like I am trying rather than putting that extra million or two into the team and show I'm just trying to canoe up river without a paddle.

[2drfischer@gmail.c]

0C212C3D3A2B3C7C7F4E0 wrote: You have to wonder why Nutting bothered to change his team president, GM and mgr. Winning doesn't interest him enough to increase spending (or even to simply stop reducing it). And he's not going to give his new regime enough money to make any significant improvements.



So the regime change could only have been to give the appearance of an attempt to improve the team and the only reason for such a subterfuge is to make money. Of course the pandemic ruined whatever chance he had of getting season ticket holders to buy into his ruse. But next year and beyond, he wants the community to put their money in his pockets. [highlight]And not supporting him is the only way he'll get the message that he needs to do more than just try to fool the fans.[/highlight] 


Consumers vote with their wallets. Ideally, if the people of this region stay away next season, making PNC Park look like it does this year, completely empty, it may force his hand. There's no way MLB could stay silent and the Players Union wouldn't call him out more so than they have before. Other owners may even feel compelled to speak out, too.



I truly believe that the only way to make the necessary changes to the organization is to drive Nutting out. Until it happens, we'll continue to relive Groundhog Day.

[GreenWeenie]

As I recall, the majority of Yinzers were critical of those few fans who walked out in the most recent display of disgust with the way BOB conducts business.They were booed loudly.



So, I'm not sure how much people care about his cheapness and their incompetence, to be perfectly honest.



For every fan who wants "a team," three more say "play the kids" and "give them time."



Be honest.