486C787075190 wrote:
Here is a radical idea. Most agree that we need a good LH starter.
Seems that the FO has a relationship with Toronto.
This would have been ridiculed a year or two ago but actually makes some sense now.
Trade McCutchen for Happ.
Salaries are basically a wash. Bring up Meadows if he is ready
No way would I make that deal. JA Happ for McCutchen?
Are you speaking from the Pirates perspective or the Blue Jays perspective?
Pirates.
I wouldn't trade a MVP candidate at age 29 for an aging pitcher. I know Happ has turned things around, but McCutchen is the type of player you build teams around as the Pirates just did.
What direction do the Bucs go?
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
What direction do the Bucs go?
7279717D7879622721566F777E7979387579160 wrote:
Here is a radical idea. Most agree that we need a good LH starter.
Seems that the FO has a relationship with Toronto.
This would have been ridiculed a year or two ago but actually makes some sense now.
Trade McCutchen for Happ.
Salaries are basically a wash. Bring up Meadows if he is ready
No way would I make that deal. JA Happ for McCutchen?
Are you speaking from the Pirates perspective or the Blue Jays perspective?
Pirates.
I wouldn't trade a MVP candidate at age 29 for an aging pitcher. I know Happ has turned things around, but McCutchen is the type of player you build teams around as the Pirates just did.
I wouldn't make that deal at all for the Pirates. However, I suggest you read this from the BR. This might shed some light on the value of Cutch. It has dropped. Maybe we should all temper our values on Cutch a bit. I brought up Washington if it failed again and thought Turner and Giolito might be a good return. Sounds like that is too much.
I have no idea who would be in the market for Cutch in the offseason if they do trade him. Eliminate the ones who are rebuilding; eliminate the financial flexibility crowd. Who do you have? The Dodgers? Baltimore as long as its LF? Who?
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2667 ... ial-search
Here is a radical idea. Most agree that we need a good LH starter.
Seems that the FO has a relationship with Toronto.
This would have been ridiculed a year or two ago but actually makes some sense now.
Trade McCutchen for Happ.
Salaries are basically a wash. Bring up Meadows if he is ready
No way would I make that deal. JA Happ for McCutchen?
Are you speaking from the Pirates perspective or the Blue Jays perspective?
Pirates.
I wouldn't trade a MVP candidate at age 29 for an aging pitcher. I know Happ has turned things around, but McCutchen is the type of player you build teams around as the Pirates just did.
I wouldn't make that deal at all for the Pirates. However, I suggest you read this from the BR. This might shed some light on the value of Cutch. It has dropped. Maybe we should all temper our values on Cutch a bit. I brought up Washington if it failed again and thought Turner and Giolito might be a good return. Sounds like that is too much.
I have no idea who would be in the market for Cutch in the offseason if they do trade him. Eliminate the ones who are rebuilding; eliminate the financial flexibility crowd. Who do you have? The Dodgers? Baltimore as long as its LF? Who?
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2667 ... ial-search
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
What direction do the Bucs go?
Turner is a special talent. The Nationals can take over the Pirates as best outfield with he and Harper.
I might be bias in rating McCutchen, but I still think he is a special player. One bad year shouldn't hurt him that much in my opinion. I hope messing with his line up spot and defense was the result of most of his play.
I might be bias in rating McCutchen, but I still think he is a special player. One bad year shouldn't hurt him that much in my opinion. I hope messing with his line up spot and defense was the result of most of his play.
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JollyRoger
- Posts: 1469
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:31 pm
What direction do the Bucs go?
6269616D6869723731467F676E6969286569060 wrote:
Here is a radical idea. Most agree that we need a good LH starter.
Seems that the FO has a relationship with Toronto.
This would have been ridiculed a year or two ago but actually makes some sense now.
Trade McCutchen for Happ.
Salaries are basically a wash. Bring up Meadows if he is ready
No way would I make that deal. JA Happ for McCutchen?
Are you speaking from the Pirates perspective or the Blue Jays perspective?
Pirates.
I wouldn't trade a MVP candidate at age 29 for an aging pitcher. I know Happ has turned things around, but McCutchen is the type of player you build teams around as the Pirates just did.
You do realize that Happ with his 20-4 record may very well win the Cy Young award. He should have 2-3 good years left. In reading the Trib's article on the possibility of trading Cutch; they mentioned that the general consensus among big league scouts was that Cutch would bring back 2 good prospects. ( not even elite prospects!)
Here is a radical idea. Most agree that we need a good LH starter.
Seems that the FO has a relationship with Toronto.
This would have been ridiculed a year or two ago but actually makes some sense now.
Trade McCutchen for Happ.
Salaries are basically a wash. Bring up Meadows if he is ready
No way would I make that deal. JA Happ for McCutchen?
Are you speaking from the Pirates perspective or the Blue Jays perspective?
Pirates.
I wouldn't trade a MVP candidate at age 29 for an aging pitcher. I know Happ has turned things around, but McCutchen is the type of player you build teams around as the Pirates just did.
You do realize that Happ with his 20-4 record may very well win the Cy Young award. He should have 2-3 good years left. In reading the Trib's article on the possibility of trading Cutch; they mentioned that the general consensus among big league scouts was that Cutch would bring back 2 good prospects. ( not even elite prospects!)
What direction do the Bucs go?
17323131240F323A382F5D0 wrote:
Here is a radical idea. Most agree that we need a good LH starter.
Seems that the FO has a relationship with Toronto.
This would have been ridiculed a year or two ago but actually makes some sense now.
Trade McCutchen for Happ.
Salaries are basically a wash. Bring up Meadows if he is ready
No way would I make that deal. JA Happ for McCutchen?
Are you speaking from the Pirates perspective or the Blue Jays perspective?
Pirates.
I wouldn't trade a MVP candidate at age 29 for an aging pitcher. I know Happ has turned things around, but McCutchen is the type of player you build teams around as the Pirates just did.
You do realize that Happ with his 20-4 record may very well win the Cy Young award. He should have 2-3 good years left. In reading the Trib's article on the possibility of trading Cutch; they mentioned that the general consensus among big league scouts was that Cutch would bring back 2 good prospects. ( not even elite prospects!)
They could always ask for Ramirez and McGuire along with Happ for McCutchen?
Here is a radical idea. Most agree that we need a good LH starter.
Seems that the FO has a relationship with Toronto.
This would have been ridiculed a year or two ago but actually makes some sense now.
Trade McCutchen for Happ.
Salaries are basically a wash. Bring up Meadows if he is ready
No way would I make that deal. JA Happ for McCutchen?
Are you speaking from the Pirates perspective or the Blue Jays perspective?
Pirates.
I wouldn't trade a MVP candidate at age 29 for an aging pitcher. I know Happ has turned things around, but McCutchen is the type of player you build teams around as the Pirates just did.
You do realize that Happ with his 20-4 record may very well win the Cy Young award. He should have 2-3 good years left. In reading the Trib's article on the possibility of trading Cutch; they mentioned that the general consensus among big league scouts was that Cutch would bring back 2 good prospects. ( not even elite prospects!)
They could always ask for Ramirez and McGuire along with Happ for McCutchen?
What direction do the Bucs go?
4348404C4948531610675E464F4848094448270 wrote: Turner is a special talent. The Nationals can take over the Pirates as best outfield with he and Harper.
I might be bias in rating McCutchen, but I still think he is a special player. One bad year shouldn't hurt him that much in my opinion. I hope messing with his line up spot and defense was the result of most of his play.
I think we are all biased on Cutch. He should generate a better return than two good prospects even with a down year. I expect him to rebound, but this year was off from the start. He simply wasn't the same dude. He is still a bargain, for two years, including the club option of 14.5 million I believe in 2018. Is this the best time to deal him when a club would have two years with him, even though he is coming off a bad year, or hope he returns to form next year and deal him at the trade deadline because I don't see this team becoming competitive for a wild card without a few off season changes that I don't see happening?
Would love Turner.
I might be bias in rating McCutchen, but I still think he is a special player. One bad year shouldn't hurt him that much in my opinion. I hope messing with his line up spot and defense was the result of most of his play.
I think we are all biased on Cutch. He should generate a better return than two good prospects even with a down year. I expect him to rebound, but this year was off from the start. He simply wasn't the same dude. He is still a bargain, for two years, including the club option of 14.5 million I believe in 2018. Is this the best time to deal him when a club would have two years with him, even though he is coming off a bad year, or hope he returns to form next year and deal him at the trade deadline because I don't see this team becoming competitive for a wild card without a few off season changes that I don't see happening?
Would love Turner.
What direction do the Bucs go?
507576766348757D7F681A0 wrote:
Here is a radical idea. Most agree that we need a good LH starter.
Seems that the FO has a relationship with Toronto.
This would have been ridiculed a year or two ago but actually makes some sense now.
Trade McCutchen for Happ.
Salaries are basically a wash. Bring up Meadows if he is ready
No way would I make that deal. JA Happ for McCutchen?
Are you speaking from the Pirates perspective or the Blue Jays perspective?
Pirates.
I wouldn't trade a MVP candidate at age 29 for an aging pitcher. I know Happ has turned things around, but McCutchen is the type of player you build teams around as the Pirates just did.
You do realize that Happ with his 20-4 record may very well win the Cy Young award. He should have 2-3 good years left. In reading the Trib's article on the possibility of trading Cutch; they mentioned that the general consensus among big league scouts was that Cutch would bring back 2 good prospects. ( not even elite prospects!)
I take my shots at this organization as far as foolish moves with the best of them. However, I generally supported them not resigning Happ. It was based off a very small sample size in Pittsburgh that Toronto sent that bid/offer his way. Before that small sample size, he had very little success in the majors. His last good year was 2009 with Filly. He had a 11-11 record in Toronto not too long ago, but a high ERA. I never expected him to duplicate his small sample size he had in Pittsburgh, especially in Toronto.
I don't know if they would even trade Stroman and a prospect for him.
Funny thing though ... the two prospects we traded to them that are blocked here - turn out to be their fourth and fifth best prospects.
Here is a radical idea. Most agree that we need a good LH starter.
Seems that the FO has a relationship with Toronto.
This would have been ridiculed a year or two ago but actually makes some sense now.
Trade McCutchen for Happ.
Salaries are basically a wash. Bring up Meadows if he is ready
No way would I make that deal. JA Happ for McCutchen?
Are you speaking from the Pirates perspective or the Blue Jays perspective?
Pirates.
I wouldn't trade a MVP candidate at age 29 for an aging pitcher. I know Happ has turned things around, but McCutchen is the type of player you build teams around as the Pirates just did.
You do realize that Happ with his 20-4 record may very well win the Cy Young award. He should have 2-3 good years left. In reading the Trib's article on the possibility of trading Cutch; they mentioned that the general consensus among big league scouts was that Cutch would bring back 2 good prospects. ( not even elite prospects!)
I take my shots at this organization as far as foolish moves with the best of them. However, I generally supported them not resigning Happ. It was based off a very small sample size in Pittsburgh that Toronto sent that bid/offer his way. Before that small sample size, he had very little success in the majors. His last good year was 2009 with Filly. He had a 11-11 record in Toronto not too long ago, but a high ERA. I never expected him to duplicate his small sample size he had in Pittsburgh, especially in Toronto.
I don't know if they would even trade Stroman and a prospect for him.
Funny thing though ... the two prospects we traded to them that are blocked here - turn out to be their fourth and fifth best prospects.
What direction do the Bucs go?
Trading Cutch makes sense in that the Pirates have outfield depth and are badly in need of an experienced starter. If we have a choice a left-handed starter would be ideal. J.A. Happ would fit that description perfectly.
On the other hand trading Cutch at a low point in his career for Happ at a high point is worrisome. Cutch's pedigree is a lot better than Happ's. Selling low on Cutch should be done only if you believe that 2016 was not an aberration but the start of an irreversible decline.
I read the article which stated that the expected return for Cutch would be two good prospects. Personally I think I'd prefer to take the risk of waiting for him to rebound in 2017 and increase his trade value before dealing him. Even if he continues at his 2016 production level you should be able to get the same "2 good prospect" return for him at the trade deadline that you can get this offseason.
On the other hand trading Cutch at a low point in his career for Happ at a high point is worrisome. Cutch's pedigree is a lot better than Happ's. Selling low on Cutch should be done only if you believe that 2016 was not an aberration but the start of an irreversible decline.
I read the article which stated that the expected return for Cutch would be two good prospects. Personally I think I'd prefer to take the risk of waiting for him to rebound in 2017 and increase his trade value before dealing him. Even if he continues at his 2016 production level you should be able to get the same "2 good prospect" return for him at the trade deadline that you can get this offseason.
What direction do the Bucs go?
6642565E5B370 wrote: Trading Cutch makes sense in that the Pirates have outfield depth and are badly in need of an experienced starter. If we have a choice a left-handed starter would be ideal. J.A. Happ would fit that description perfectly.
On the other hand trading Cutch at a low point in his career for Happ at a high point is worrisome. Cutch's pedigree is a lot better than Happ's. Selling low on Cutch should be done only if you believe that 2016 was not an aberration but the start of an irreversible decline.
I read the article which stated that the expected return for Cutch would be two good prospects. Personally I think I'd prefer to take the risk of waiting for him to rebound in 2017 and increase his trade value before dealing him. Even if he continues at his 2016 production level you should be able to get the same "2 good prospect" return for him at the trade deadline that you can get this offseason.
The problem is if your supposed best player; face of the franchise; the 2013 MVP and an MVP candidate basically every year is worth JA Happ, a guy that has floundered his way in MLB absent one year in 2009, a small sample size with Pittsburgh in 2015 and in Toronto is 2016, there remains a major problem.
The article said good prospects, not necessarily great or impact players.
On the other hand trading Cutch at a low point in his career for Happ at a high point is worrisome. Cutch's pedigree is a lot better than Happ's. Selling low on Cutch should be done only if you believe that 2016 was not an aberration but the start of an irreversible decline.
I read the article which stated that the expected return for Cutch would be two good prospects. Personally I think I'd prefer to take the risk of waiting for him to rebound in 2017 and increase his trade value before dealing him. Even if he continues at his 2016 production level you should be able to get the same "2 good prospect" return for him at the trade deadline that you can get this offseason.
The problem is if your supposed best player; face of the franchise; the 2013 MVP and an MVP candidate basically every year is worth JA Happ, a guy that has floundered his way in MLB absent one year in 2009, a small sample size with Pittsburgh in 2015 and in Toronto is 2016, there remains a major problem.
The article said good prospects, not necessarily great or impact players.
What direction do the Bucs go?
0E1E1F283E3E325D0 wrote: Trading Cutch makes sense in that the Pirates have outfield depth and are badly in need of an experienced starter. If we have a choice a left-handed starter would be ideal. J.A. Happ would fit that description perfectly.
On the other hand trading Cutch at a low point in his career for Happ at a high point is worrisome. Cutch's pedigree is a lot better than Happ's. Selling low on Cutch should be done only if you believe that 2016 was not an aberration but the start of an irreversible decline.
I read the article which stated that the expected return for Cutch would be two good prospects. Personally I think I'd prefer to take the risk of waiting for him to rebound in 2017 and increase his trade value before dealing him. Even if he continues at his 2016 production level you should be able to get the same "2 good prospect" return for him at the trade deadline that you can get this offseason.
The problem is if your supposed best player; face of the franchise; the 2013 MVP and an MVP candidate basically every year is worth JA Happ, a guy that has floundered his way in MLB absent one year in 2009, a small sample size with Pittsburgh in 2015 and in Toronto is 2016, there remains a major problem.
The article said good prospects, not necessarily great or impact players.
Make no mistake Cutch is a major problem. Whether he continues to be depends on if/how he rebounds next year. In a 'what have you done lately' context a trade involving a Cy Young candidate southpaw and an average outfielder (+ offensively, --defensively) would seem to favor the team getting the pitcher. It also seems likely that an average outfielder would fetch maybe 2 good prospects.
If Cutch is going to become a more valuable trade chip he's going to have to demonstrate in 2017 this improved value to any GM who would consider making a deal for him. If I'm not convinced right now that he's ever going to return to his MVP level of productivity I'm guessing there isn't any MLB GM who's convinced of it either.
On the other hand trading Cutch at a low point in his career for Happ at a high point is worrisome. Cutch's pedigree is a lot better than Happ's. Selling low on Cutch should be done only if you believe that 2016 was not an aberration but the start of an irreversible decline.
I read the article which stated that the expected return for Cutch would be two good prospects. Personally I think I'd prefer to take the risk of waiting for him to rebound in 2017 and increase his trade value before dealing him. Even if he continues at his 2016 production level you should be able to get the same "2 good prospect" return for him at the trade deadline that you can get this offseason.
The problem is if your supposed best player; face of the franchise; the 2013 MVP and an MVP candidate basically every year is worth JA Happ, a guy that has floundered his way in MLB absent one year in 2009, a small sample size with Pittsburgh in 2015 and in Toronto is 2016, there remains a major problem.
The article said good prospects, not necessarily great or impact players.
Make no mistake Cutch is a major problem. Whether he continues to be depends on if/how he rebounds next year. In a 'what have you done lately' context a trade involving a Cy Young candidate southpaw and an average outfielder (+ offensively, --defensively) would seem to favor the team getting the pitcher. It also seems likely that an average outfielder would fetch maybe 2 good prospects.
If Cutch is going to become a more valuable trade chip he's going to have to demonstrate in 2017 this improved value to any GM who would consider making a deal for him. If I'm not convinced right now that he's ever going to return to his MVP level of productivity I'm guessing there isn't any MLB GM who's convinced of it either.