This reminds me of last year ...
We were down to TWO outfielders, and the front office figured "let's don't bother with getting a third, and let's just stick some infielders out there."
And now we are down to 3 legit starting pitchers, but what the heck. That's still 60 percent of an actual rotation, so that's close enough!
Just embarrassing.
Pirates vs Dbacks 5/13
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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SteadyFreddy
Pirates vs Dbacks 5/13
Yea this team cannot seriously compete if Taillon is going to be out for 2 months and they plan to leave both Brault and Kingham in this rotation and pitch them back to back as well. With the team 20-18 after tonight through almost 40 games this team has earned the right for the front office to go out and legitimately try and make it better.
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Bobster21
Pirates vs Dbacks 5/13
587A69747772757A596E7878741B0 wrote: This reminds me of last year ...
We were down to TWO outfielders, and the front office figured "let's don't bother with getting a third, and let's just stick some infielders out there."
And now we are down to 3 legit starting pitchers, but what the heck. That's still 60 percent of an actual rotation, so that's close enough!
Just embarrassing.
Exactly right! There's no other way to interpret the moves, or lack thereof, of TBMTIB except that they aren't in it to win it. They're just in it to participate and get by somehow. For those saying they are wasting the time they have with Archer by not adding on, we need only look at the offseason when after adding Archer, they did little else. They knew Archer was a good addition but not enough to put the team over the top. But for TBMTIB, that was all they were willing to do. They had bought themselves a couple years where they could say to the fans, "See? We did something." Without adding other key pieces, that seems to have been the sole purpose of that trade.
We were down to TWO outfielders, and the front office figured "let's don't bother with getting a third, and let's just stick some infielders out there."
And now we are down to 3 legit starting pitchers, but what the heck. That's still 60 percent of an actual rotation, so that's close enough!
Just embarrassing.
Exactly right! There's no other way to interpret the moves, or lack thereof, of TBMTIB except that they aren't in it to win it. They're just in it to participate and get by somehow. For those saying they are wasting the time they have with Archer by not adding on, we need only look at the offseason when after adding Archer, they did little else. They knew Archer was a good addition but not enough to put the team over the top. But for TBMTIB, that was all they were willing to do. They had bought themselves a couple years where they could say to the fans, "See? We did something." Without adding other key pieces, that seems to have been the sole purpose of that trade.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3642
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Pirates vs Dbacks 5/13
5750464E4057101C654248444C490B464A48250 wrote: I totally agree...these 2 are not giving this team a chance to be competitive whenever they pitch.
I give Keuchel's agent a call and ask what is it going to take?
It wont happen, but i am trying to think how a World Series caliber team would react to the circumstance in which they are currently in.
Ace on the 60 day DL and 2 AAAA trying to be MLers.
Archer
Keuchel
Williams
Musgrove
Lyles
Move Musgrove or Lyles to the pen if and when Taillon returns this season.
This whole Nutting situation is so unfair. The Organization CLEARLY has the means to sign Kuechel but we all know they’re not even considering it. This team is good enough to invest into it. But no chance.
Kuechel is sitting there waiting, the perfect solution.
There are like 30 teams who haven't signed him. I'm sure most of them need pitchers. If he were that perfect of a solution I'm sure some team would have thought of it by now.
I understand that this is the latest thing that's fun to bash nutting about but Keuchel's situation is so strange that I have to think that there's something else going on here.
I give Keuchel's agent a call and ask what is it going to take?
It wont happen, but i am trying to think how a World Series caliber team would react to the circumstance in which they are currently in.
Ace on the 60 day DL and 2 AAAA trying to be MLers.
Archer
Keuchel
Williams
Musgrove
Lyles
Move Musgrove or Lyles to the pen if and when Taillon returns this season.
This whole Nutting situation is so unfair. The Organization CLEARLY has the means to sign Kuechel but we all know they’re not even considering it. This team is good enough to invest into it. But no chance.
Kuechel is sitting there waiting, the perfect solution.
There are like 30 teams who haven't signed him. I'm sure most of them need pitchers. If he were that perfect of a solution I'm sure some team would have thought of it by now.
I understand that this is the latest thing that's fun to bash nutting about but Keuchel's situation is so strange that I have to think that there's something else going on here.
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Bobster21
Pirates vs Dbacks 5/13
I remember when Kingham was in the minors being touted as a top pitching prospect. But he doesn't look like anything more than a AAAA pitcher. In fact, looking back at his minor league stats, they don't jump out at you other than his 2013 season at Bradenton and Altoona. His ERA in AAA was 3.87. He had an incredible MLB debut of 6.2 perfect innings vs St.L. But I believe that was the result of a poor strategy by the Cardinals. As I watched that game I wondered why the Cards were letting so many strikes go by down the middle. As it was Kingham's MLB debut, the Cards seemed to have a plan to take a lot of pitches to see what he had. The result was that Kingham was getting ahead of most of the batters. He retired the first 20 Cardinal batters and had 2 strikes on 14 of them. He struck out 9 of them. In subsequent games the opposing batters came out swinging and his ERA ended up 5.21. This year it's now 7.84 with 18 ERs in 20.2 IP. The Pirates like tall pitchers but Kingham needs something more than a 6'5" frame. Last night, his FB was 90-93. He's supposed to have a good slider and changeup but he wasn't fooling anyone. Without a good FB, the changeup won't be as effective. Last year he made 15 starts but only 6 qualified as "quality starts" and it only takes an ERA of 4.50 (6 IP/3 ERs) to get that. I wish we could look at another bad Kingham start as nothing more than a bad game with expectations the next game will be a lot better. But unfortunately, bad games seem to be the norm for him. Unless batters want to just stand there and not swing, like the Cardinals did in his debut, Kingham doesn't have much going for him to get batters out.
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SteadyFreddy
Pirates vs Dbacks 5/13
794B47475361424B46434C4B2A0 wrote: I totally agree...these 2 are not giving this team a chance to be competitive whenever they pitch.
I give Keuchel's agent a call and ask what is it going to take?
It wont happen, but i am trying to think how a World Series caliber team would react to the circumstance in which they are currently in.
Ace on the 60 day DL and 2 AAAA trying to be MLers.
Archer
Keuchel
Williams
Musgrove
Lyles
Move Musgrove or Lyles to the pen if and when Taillon returns this season.
This whole Nutting situation is so unfair. The Organization CLEARLY has the means to sign Kuechel but we all know they’re not even considering it. This team is good enough to invest into it. But no chance.
Kuechel is sitting there waiting, the perfect solution.
There are like 30 teams who haven't signed him. I'm sure most of them need pitchers. If he were that perfect of a solution I'm sure some team would have thought of it by now.
I understand that this is the latest thing that's fun to bash nutting about but Keuchel's situation is so strange that I have to think that there's something else going on here. Then go make a trade then to acquire a pitcher or try and do better then Chris Stratton. Call Mitch Keller up and give him a shot how much worse could he be then Steven Brault. I’d even maybe try what the Rays have done and pitch a combination of Liriano and Stratton 3 innings each. You gotta try something different pitching Brault every 5th day is not the answer.
I give Keuchel's agent a call and ask what is it going to take?
It wont happen, but i am trying to think how a World Series caliber team would react to the circumstance in which they are currently in.
Ace on the 60 day DL and 2 AAAA trying to be MLers.
Archer
Keuchel
Williams
Musgrove
Lyles
Move Musgrove or Lyles to the pen if and when Taillon returns this season.
This whole Nutting situation is so unfair. The Organization CLEARLY has the means to sign Kuechel but we all know they’re not even considering it. This team is good enough to invest into it. But no chance.
Kuechel is sitting there waiting, the perfect solution.
There are like 30 teams who haven't signed him. I'm sure most of them need pitchers. If he were that perfect of a solution I'm sure some team would have thought of it by now.
I understand that this is the latest thing that's fun to bash nutting about but Keuchel's situation is so strange that I have to think that there's something else going on here. Then go make a trade then to acquire a pitcher or try and do better then Chris Stratton. Call Mitch Keller up and give him a shot how much worse could he be then Steven Brault. I’d even maybe try what the Rays have done and pitch a combination of Liriano and Stratton 3 innings each. You gotta try something different pitching Brault every 5th day is not the answer.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3642
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Pirates vs Dbacks 5/13
634455515449764255545449300 wrote: Call Mitch Keller up and give him a shot how much worse could he be then Steven Brault.
I agree with getting a pitcher, but this one I think I've heard before just a few years ago. I hope we've learned about calling up guys like that because "what have you got to lose"
I agree with getting a pitcher, but this one I think I've heard before just a few years ago. I hope we've learned about calling up guys like that because "what have you got to lose"
Pirates vs Dbacks 5/13
063438382C1E3D34393C3334550 wrote: Call Mitch Keller up and give him a shot how much worse could he be then Steven Brault.
I agree with getting a pitcher, but this one I think I've heard before just a few years ago. I hope we've learned about calling up guys like that because "what have you got to lose"
I agree with this. Keller is not the answer and calling him up before he's ready reeks of desperation. Now, don't get me wrong, these are desperate times. We're already down two starters, one's coming back tomorrow and the other is out for probably another two months. But one more bad start from Musgrove, and I'll bet he lands on the IL, too. So, even with Archer back, we'll be in the same boat. The real crazy things is Taillon's injury gives TBMTIB an easy out to not do anything at the deadline. I can hear the excuses now, "We feel like we traded for an ace caliber pitcher. His name is Jameson Taillon."
I'm still king of high on Kingham. I think he'll settle in and be a decent #3-4 starter in the big leagues. His stuff is every bit as good as Williams' for instance. But I see two things with him. He tends to leave pitches over the middle of the plate. Williams is much better at hitting his spots. Unless you are completely overpowering, leaving a 93 mph fastball middle in to even average MLB hitters is asking for trouble. The second thing I see is that he looks like he shows the ball too soon. Some guys can be deceptive because of how they grip the ball, so 93 looks like 97. Rich Rodriguez seemed to do that last year. He doesn't have overpowering stuff, but he was effective last year, and I think a lot of it was due to his delivery. I can't quite describe it, and I'm certainly not an MLB pitching coach, I just know what my eyes tell me, but Kingham almost seems to hold the ball out there for hitters to see and say, "Here it is. Come and get it."
He'll get a few outs, because the simple nature of trying to hit a round ball with a round bat squarely is really, really difficult. But generally speaking, he's going to get torched if he leaves lots of pitches over the heart of the plate and if he shows the baseball too soon. I suppose that could be said for every pitcher in MLB, but the difference is that every pitcher in MLB isn't doing those things. Kingham is.
For my two cents, I'd go with this rotation until Taillon gets back:
Musgrove
Williams
Lyles
Archer
Liriano (start with having him get through three innings...one time through the lineup, then turn it over to a right-hander [maybe Kingham, maybe Stratton, maybe bring up a guy like Alex McRae] to work innings 4-6, then turn it over to Rodriguez-Crick-Kela-Vazquez)
I agree with getting a pitcher, but this one I think I've heard before just a few years ago. I hope we've learned about calling up guys like that because "what have you got to lose"
I agree with this. Keller is not the answer and calling him up before he's ready reeks of desperation. Now, don't get me wrong, these are desperate times. We're already down two starters, one's coming back tomorrow and the other is out for probably another two months. But one more bad start from Musgrove, and I'll bet he lands on the IL, too. So, even with Archer back, we'll be in the same boat. The real crazy things is Taillon's injury gives TBMTIB an easy out to not do anything at the deadline. I can hear the excuses now, "We feel like we traded for an ace caliber pitcher. His name is Jameson Taillon."
I'm still king of high on Kingham. I think he'll settle in and be a decent #3-4 starter in the big leagues. His stuff is every bit as good as Williams' for instance. But I see two things with him. He tends to leave pitches over the middle of the plate. Williams is much better at hitting his spots. Unless you are completely overpowering, leaving a 93 mph fastball middle in to even average MLB hitters is asking for trouble. The second thing I see is that he looks like he shows the ball too soon. Some guys can be deceptive because of how they grip the ball, so 93 looks like 97. Rich Rodriguez seemed to do that last year. He doesn't have overpowering stuff, but he was effective last year, and I think a lot of it was due to his delivery. I can't quite describe it, and I'm certainly not an MLB pitching coach, I just know what my eyes tell me, but Kingham almost seems to hold the ball out there for hitters to see and say, "Here it is. Come and get it."
He'll get a few outs, because the simple nature of trying to hit a round ball with a round bat squarely is really, really difficult. But generally speaking, he's going to get torched if he leaves lots of pitches over the heart of the plate and if he shows the baseball too soon. I suppose that could be said for every pitcher in MLB, but the difference is that every pitcher in MLB isn't doing those things. Kingham is.
For my two cents, I'd go with this rotation until Taillon gets back:
Musgrove
Williams
Lyles
Archer
Liriano (start with having him get through three innings...one time through the lineup, then turn it over to a right-hander [maybe Kingham, maybe Stratton, maybe bring up a guy like Alex McRae] to work innings 4-6, then turn it over to Rodriguez-Crick-Kela-Vazquez)
Pirates vs Dbacks 5/13
566468687C4E6D64696C6364050 wrote: I totally agree...these 2 are not giving this team a chance to be competitive whenever they pitch.
I give Keuchel's agent a call and ask what is it going to take?
It wont happen, but i am trying to think how a World Series caliber team would react to the circumstance in which they are currently in.
Ace on the 60 day DL and 2 AAAA trying to be MLers.
Archer
Keuchel
Williams
Musgrove
Lyles
Move Musgrove or Lyles to the pen if and when Taillon returns this season.
This whole Nutting situation is so unfair. The Organization CLEARLY has the means to sign Kuechel but we all know they’re not even considering it. This team is good enough to invest into it. But no chance.
Kuechel is sitting there waiting, the perfect solution.
There are like 30 teams who haven't signed him. I'm sure most of them need pitchers. If he were that perfect of a solution I'm sure some team would have thought of it by now.
I understand that this is the latest thing that's fun to bash nutting about but Keuchel's situation is so strange that I have to think that there's something else going on here.
yes, but Keuchel is just an example.
the team went into this season needing starting pitching to be its strength. But that was only going to happen without injuries and if every body performed well.
It just shows poor planning or perhaps the team was just hoping on a wing and a prayer.
I give Keuchel's agent a call and ask what is it going to take?
It wont happen, but i am trying to think how a World Series caliber team would react to the circumstance in which they are currently in.
Ace on the 60 day DL and 2 AAAA trying to be MLers.
Archer
Keuchel
Williams
Musgrove
Lyles
Move Musgrove or Lyles to the pen if and when Taillon returns this season.
This whole Nutting situation is so unfair. The Organization CLEARLY has the means to sign Kuechel but we all know they’re not even considering it. This team is good enough to invest into it. But no chance.
Kuechel is sitting there waiting, the perfect solution.
There are like 30 teams who haven't signed him. I'm sure most of them need pitchers. If he were that perfect of a solution I'm sure some team would have thought of it by now.
I understand that this is the latest thing that's fun to bash nutting about but Keuchel's situation is so strange that I have to think that there's something else going on here.
yes, but Keuchel is just an example.
the team went into this season needing starting pitching to be its strength. But that was only going to happen without injuries and if every body performed well.
It just shows poor planning or perhaps the team was just hoping on a wing and a prayer.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3642
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Pirates vs Dbacks 5/13
Yeah I totally agree. We needed another SP in the offseason. We're lucky the Lyles experiment is working out so far.