Shelton hired as manager
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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DemDog
Shelton hired as manager
On this Thanksgiving Day, I think we need to back off with the absolute feeling that Nutting will be really, really cheap with the payroll. I am not an apologist for Nutting. He is indeed cheap but perhaps simply to satisfy his own ego he will loosen the purse strings somewhat. I think he is showing a serious change of heart by eating the contracts of NH & CH. Do I think Nutting will increase payroll dramatically? Hell No! But given the team seems to be doing a complete rebuild under Cherrington I will give him a break for the first year. Over the next few years I believe Nutting will pony up for a higher payroll and move toward the MLB avg. I am taking a big chance with my statement but I am more than willing to "eat crow" and call for his ouster as an owner.
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Bobster21
Shelton hired as manager
1D3C341D363E590 wrote: On this Thanksgiving Day, I think we need to back off with the absolute feeling that Nutting will be really, really cheap with the payroll. I am not an apologist for Nutting. He is indeed cheap but perhaps simply to satisfy his own ego he will loosen the purse strings somewhat. I think he is showing a serious change of heart by eating the contracts of NH & CH. Do I think Nutting will increase payroll dramatically? Hell No! But given the team seems to be doing a complete rebuild under Cherrington I will give him a break for the first year. Over the next few years I believe Nutting will pony up for a higher payroll and move toward the MLB avg. I am taking a big chance with my statement but I am more than willing to "eat crow" and call for his ouster as an owner.
Hate to disagree but I will be shocked if he moves toward the MLB average. Primarily because of his own comments at the press conference to announce Cherington. When specifically asked about payroll, Nutting again cited the market, alleged economic challenges and said he wished there was more money to spend. He said he would try to do a better job of communicating to the fans why they can't spend. So Nutting's own comments when announcing the new regime hires reinforce the perception that little will change financially. As soon as he shows signs of no longer being really, really cheap with the payroll, I'm sure we'll all back off that criticism. But his own response to that very question suggests it won't happen.
Hate to disagree but I will be shocked if he moves toward the MLB average. Primarily because of his own comments at the press conference to announce Cherington. When specifically asked about payroll, Nutting again cited the market, alleged economic challenges and said he wished there was more money to spend. He said he would try to do a better job of communicating to the fans why they can't spend. So Nutting's own comments when announcing the new regime hires reinforce the perception that little will change financially. As soon as he shows signs of no longer being really, really cheap with the payroll, I'm sure we'll all back off that criticism. But his own response to that very question suggests it won't happen.
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fjk090852-7
- Posts: 3484
- Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:52 pm
Shelton hired as manager
6F424F5E59485F1F1C2D0 wrote: On this Thanksgiving Day, I think we need to back off with the absolute feeling that Nutting will be really, really cheap with the payroll. I am not an apologist for Nutting. He is indeed cheap but perhaps simply to satisfy his own ego he will loosen the purse strings somewhat. I think he is showing a serious change of heart by eating the contracts of NH & CH. Do I think Nutting will increase payroll dramatically? Hell No! But given the team seems to be doing a complete rebuild under Cherrington I will give him a break for the first year. Over the next few years I believe Nutting will pony up for a higher payroll and move toward the MLB avg. I am taking a big chance with my statement but I am more than willing to "eat crow" and call for his ouster as an owner.
Hate to disagree but I will be shocked if he moves toward the MLB average. Primarily because of his own comments at the press conference to announce Cherington. When specifically asked about payroll, Nutting again cited the market, alleged economic challenges and said he wished there was more money to spend. He said he would try to do a better job of communicating to the fans why they can't spend. So Nutting's own comments when announcing the new regime hires reinforce the perception that little will change financially. As soon as he shows signs of no longer being really, really cheap with the payroll, I'm sure we'll all back off that criticism. But his own response to that very question suggests it won't happen.
I am going to agree with Possum. I think with these recent hires there is some optimism that Nutting may bump up the payroll. I also believe that the next contract with the players union will include some type of spending floor. This may be more of a wish on my part, but the union is getting a little concerned with the recent lack of spending by the owners. If it takes a work stoppage to resolve some of the spending issues so be it.
Hate to disagree but I will be shocked if he moves toward the MLB average. Primarily because of his own comments at the press conference to announce Cherington. When specifically asked about payroll, Nutting again cited the market, alleged economic challenges and said he wished there was more money to spend. He said he would try to do a better job of communicating to the fans why they can't spend. So Nutting's own comments when announcing the new regime hires reinforce the perception that little will change financially. As soon as he shows signs of no longer being really, really cheap with the payroll, I'm sure we'll all back off that criticism. But his own response to that very question suggests it won't happen.
I am going to agree with Possum. I think with these recent hires there is some optimism that Nutting may bump up the payroll. I also believe that the next contract with the players union will include some type of spending floor. This may be more of a wish on my part, but the union is getting a little concerned with the recent lack of spending by the owners. If it takes a work stoppage to resolve some of the spending issues so be it.
Shelton hired as manager
2E2223787178707D7A657F480 wrote: On this Thanksgiving Day, I think we need to back off with the absolute feeling that Nutting will be really, really cheap with the payroll. I am not an apologist for Nutting. He is indeed cheap but perhaps simply to satisfy his own ego he will loosen the purse strings somewhat. I think he is showing a serious change of heart by eating the contracts of NH & CH. Do I think Nutting will increase payroll dramatically? Hell No! But given the team seems to be doing a complete rebuild under Cherrington I will give him a break for the first year. Over the next few years I believe Nutting will pony up for a higher payroll and move toward the MLB avg. I am taking a big chance with my statement but I am more than willing to "eat crow" and call for his ouster as an owner.
Hate to disagree but I will be shocked if he moves toward the MLB average. Primarily because of his own comments at the press conference to announce Cherington. When specifically asked about payroll, Nutting again cited the market, alleged economic challenges and said he wished there was more money to spend. He said he would try to do a better job of communicating to the fans why they can't spend. So Nutting's own comments when announcing the new regime hires reinforce the perception that little will change financially. As soon as he shows signs of no longer being really, really cheap with the payroll, I'm sure we'll all back off that criticism. But his own response to that very question suggests it won't happen.
I am going to agree with Possum. I think with these recent hires there is some optimism that Nutting may bump up the payroll. I also believe that the next contract with the players union will include some type of spending floor. This may be more of a wish on my part, but the union is getting a little concerned with the recent lack of spending by the owners. If it takes a work stoppage to resolve some of the spending issues so be it.
I will give benefit of doubt too. Publicly NH and company were saying they could win with financial restraints given. Who knows what current group is saying.
Hate to disagree but I will be shocked if he moves toward the MLB average. Primarily because of his own comments at the press conference to announce Cherington. When specifically asked about payroll, Nutting again cited the market, alleged economic challenges and said he wished there was more money to spend. He said he would try to do a better job of communicating to the fans why they can't spend. So Nutting's own comments when announcing the new regime hires reinforce the perception that little will change financially. As soon as he shows signs of no longer being really, really cheap with the payroll, I'm sure we'll all back off that criticism. But his own response to that very question suggests it won't happen.
I am going to agree with Possum. I think with these recent hires there is some optimism that Nutting may bump up the payroll. I also believe that the next contract with the players union will include some type of spending floor. This may be more of a wish on my part, but the union is getting a little concerned with the recent lack of spending by the owners. If it takes a work stoppage to resolve some of the spending issues so be it.
I will give benefit of doubt too. Publicly NH and company were saying they could win with financial restraints given. Who knows what current group is saying.
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JollyRoger
- Posts: 1469
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:31 pm
Shelton hired as manager
64454D644F47200 wrote: On this Thanksgiving Day, I think we need to back off with the absolute feeling that Nutting will be really, really cheap with the payroll. I am not an apologist for Nutting. He is indeed cheap but perhaps simply to satisfy his own ego he will loosen the purse strings somewhat. I think he is showing a serious change of heart by eating the contracts of NH & CH. Do I think Nutting will increase payroll dramatically? Hell No! But given the team seems to be doing a complete rebuild under Cherrington I will give him a break for the first year. Over the next few years I believe Nutting will pony up for a higher payroll and move toward the MLB avg. I am taking a big chance with my statement but I am more than willing to "eat crow" and call for his ouster as an owner.
Give us some numbers of what you expect. Right now the projected payroll with arbitration raises is about 60M.
If we trade Marte that removes 11.5M. If we trade Archer that removes another 9M. You could have a 40M payroll.
Even Nutting could increase payroll from those paltry numbers
Would you be satisfied then?
I’m sorry; but I will not change my mind on Nutting until we have just an average ML Payroll. That number should be 140-150M
Hopefully the new management team works some miracles on drafting, development, International signings, and trades.
If they don’t then this team will never compete given the history of financial resources allotted by Scrooge himself
Give us some numbers of what you expect. Right now the projected payroll with arbitration raises is about 60M.
If we trade Marte that removes 11.5M. If we trade Archer that removes another 9M. You could have a 40M payroll.
Even Nutting could increase payroll from those paltry numbers
Would you be satisfied then?
I’m sorry; but I will not change my mind on Nutting until we have just an average ML Payroll. That number should be 140-150M
Hopefully the new management team works some miracles on drafting, development, International signings, and trades.
If they don’t then this team will never compete given the history of financial resources allotted by Scrooge himself
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DemDog
Shelton hired as manager
63464545507B464E4C5B290 wrote: On this Thanksgiving Day, I think we need to back off with the absolute feeling that Nutting will be really, really cheap with the payroll. I am not an apologist for Nutting. He is indeed cheap but perhaps simply to satisfy his own ego he will loosen the purse strings somewhat. I think he is showing a serious change of heart by eating the contracts of NH & CH. Do I think Nutting will increase payroll dramatically? Hell No! But given the team seems to be doing a complete rebuild under Cherrington I will give him a break for the first year. Over the next few years I believe Nutting will pony up for a higher payroll and move toward the MLB avg. I am taking a big chance with my statement but I am more than willing to "eat crow" and call for his ouster as an owner.
Give us some numbers of what you expect. Right now the projected payroll with arbitration raises is about 60M.
If we trade Marte that removes 11.5M. If we trade Archer that removes another 9M. You could have a 40M payroll.
Even Nutting could increase payroll from those paltry numbers
Would you be satisfied then?
I’m sorry; but I will not change my mind on Nutting until we have just an average ML Payroll. That number should be 140-150M
Hopefully the new management team works some miracles on drafting, development, International signings, and trades.
If they don’t then this team will never compete given the history of financial resources allotted by Scrooge himself
I think Nutting has to increase payroll and move toward the average levels you mentioned in your post. But I think he needs to take it easy while Cherington gets his feet fully on the ground and is able to make decisions of who to sign, extend, et al. With the low payroll you predict would you approach Bell with a mega-deal over say 10 yrs at like 25-30 million? How about extending Reynolds through at least 2yrs of FA with club options for 2 more. Say starting at $7.5 million and having increases each season? Why not just go for broke and sign Rendon for $30 million for 10 years?
Give us some numbers of what you expect. Right now the projected payroll with arbitration raises is about 60M.
If we trade Marte that removes 11.5M. If we trade Archer that removes another 9M. You could have a 40M payroll.
Even Nutting could increase payroll from those paltry numbers
Would you be satisfied then?
I’m sorry; but I will not change my mind on Nutting until we have just an average ML Payroll. That number should be 140-150M
Hopefully the new management team works some miracles on drafting, development, International signings, and trades.
If they don’t then this team will never compete given the history of financial resources allotted by Scrooge himself
I think Nutting has to increase payroll and move toward the average levels you mentioned in your post. But I think he needs to take it easy while Cherington gets his feet fully on the ground and is able to make decisions of who to sign, extend, et al. With the low payroll you predict would you approach Bell with a mega-deal over say 10 yrs at like 25-30 million? How about extending Reynolds through at least 2yrs of FA with club options for 2 more. Say starting at $7.5 million and having increases each season? Why not just go for broke and sign Rendon for $30 million for 10 years?
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rucker59@gmail.com
Shelton hired as manager
I just don’t see how Nutting could sign this new management team without some financial commitment. I think this new management is solid. So I’m also giving Nutting some benefit of the doubt.
Shelton hired as manager
There are certainly legitimate reasons for optimism regarding the Pirates, but I agree with Bobster. I too will be shocked if Nutting changes his miserly spending ways.
My optimism about the Pirates centers on the fact that Williams, Cherington and Shelton all appear to be excellent hires, will bring fresh perspectives to the organization, and are much more likely to get the most out of whatever talent they have to work with than their predecessors.
My optimism about the Pirates centers on the fact that Williams, Cherington and Shelton all appear to be excellent hires, will bring fresh perspectives to the organization, and are much more likely to get the most out of whatever talent they have to work with than their predecessors.
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skinnyhorse
- Posts: 926
- Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:19 am
Shelton hired as manager
715C51404756410102330 wrote: I think that Williams, Cherington, and now Williams have all been good hires. For the first time since 2015, I’m optimistic a out the future of the team. I still think they need to tear down and rebuild, but I believe these three positions are key and I think the Pirates made sound decisions on all three.
until you realize that the owner is still the same.....LOL.....as pirate fans all we have is hope, not holding my breath waiting for a different result in 3-5 years. hope I am wrong
I repeat, leadership can make a massive difference in any team. Now whether these guys are great leaders we will see, but I know what we had and it was awful. It won't take long to see.
True. But the leader at the top hasn't changed. Maybe Williams, Cherington and Shelton will impress upon Nutting that he needs to change his ways to succeed in MLB (beyond the idea that success = profit). It always seemed to me that Coonelly, Huntington and Hurdle were just glad to have their jobs. Nutting needs to change. Maybe this new management team can make a difference.
I don't know but it's pretty obvious he's not involved in the day to day operations. He's a businessman and no real business can operate with a negative income except our government and even that will come to an end sometime. I unlike most on this board don't believe money is the problem. Here's some reasons I think I'm right Washington 199 million, tampa bay 104 million, Twins 151 million, Dodgers 208 million, Astros 178 million, Athletics 87 Million, Yankees 193 Million, Cardinals 176 Million, Braves 133 Million, Brewers 113 million, Mariners 174 million, Orioles 161 million, Pirates 109 million, Tigers 148 million, Angels 206 million. This info is from forbes as of April 2019. Notice the amounts paid players are all over the place. I inculded the top teams and the bottom teams. The rational that buying players is the way to have a winning team is blown out of the water for the most part. It starts with the GM and the Manager and sometimes the President, sounds like Connely interferred with the Pirates. Anyway just want to emphasis it's going to take a lot more than spending more money for the Pirates to win.
until you realize that the owner is still the same.....LOL.....as pirate fans all we have is hope, not holding my breath waiting for a different result in 3-5 years. hope I am wrong
I repeat, leadership can make a massive difference in any team. Now whether these guys are great leaders we will see, but I know what we had and it was awful. It won't take long to see.
True. But the leader at the top hasn't changed. Maybe Williams, Cherington and Shelton will impress upon Nutting that he needs to change his ways to succeed in MLB (beyond the idea that success = profit). It always seemed to me that Coonelly, Huntington and Hurdle were just glad to have their jobs. Nutting needs to change. Maybe this new management team can make a difference.
I don't know but it's pretty obvious he's not involved in the day to day operations. He's a businessman and no real business can operate with a negative income except our government and even that will come to an end sometime. I unlike most on this board don't believe money is the problem. Here's some reasons I think I'm right Washington 199 million, tampa bay 104 million, Twins 151 million, Dodgers 208 million, Astros 178 million, Athletics 87 Million, Yankees 193 Million, Cardinals 176 Million, Braves 133 Million, Brewers 113 million, Mariners 174 million, Orioles 161 million, Pirates 109 million, Tigers 148 million, Angels 206 million. This info is from forbes as of April 2019. Notice the amounts paid players are all over the place. I inculded the top teams and the bottom teams. The rational that buying players is the way to have a winning team is blown out of the water for the most part. It starts with the GM and the Manager and sometimes the President, sounds like Connely interferred with the Pirates. Anyway just want to emphasis it's going to take a lot more than spending more money for the Pirates to win.
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Bobster21
Shelton hired as manager
70686A6D6D7A6B6C717066030 wrote: I think that Williams, Cherington, and now Williams have all been good hires. For the first time since 2015, I’m optimistic a out the future of the team. I still think they need to tear down and rebuild, but I believe these three positions are key and I think the Pirates made sound decisions on all three.
until you realize that the owner is still the same.....LOL.....as pirate fans all we have is hope, not holding my breath waiting for a different result in 3-5 years. hope I am wrong
I repeat, leadership can make a massive difference in any team. Now whether these guys are great leaders we will see, but I know what we had and it was awful. It won't take long to see.
True. But the leader at the top hasn't changed. Maybe Williams, Cherington and Shelton will impress upon Nutting that he needs to change his ways to succeed in MLB (beyond the idea that success = profit). It always seemed to me that Coonelly, Huntington and Hurdle were just glad to have their jobs. Nutting needs to change. Maybe this new management team can make a difference.
I don't know but it's pretty obvious he's not involved in the day to day operations. He's a businessman and no real business can operate with a negative income except our government and even that will come to an end sometime. I unlike most on this board don't believe money is the problem. Here's some reasons I think I'm right Washington 199 million, tampa bay 104 million, Twins 151 million, Dodgers 208 million, Astros 178 million, Athletics 87 Million, Yankees 193 Million, Cardinals 176 Million, Braves 133 Million, Brewers 113 million, Mariners 174 million, Orioles 161 million, Pirates 109 million, Tigers 148 million, Angels 206 million. This info is from forbes as of April 2019. Notice the amounts paid players are all over the place. I inculded the top teams and the bottom teams. The rational that buying players is the way to have a winning team is blown out of the water for the most part. It starts with the GM and the Manager and sometimes the President, sounds like Connely interferred with the Pirates. Anyway just want to emphasis it's going to take a lot more than spending more money for the Pirates to win.
What do those Forbes numbers represent? It's not payroll.
until you realize that the owner is still the same.....LOL.....as pirate fans all we have is hope, not holding my breath waiting for a different result in 3-5 years. hope I am wrong
I repeat, leadership can make a massive difference in any team. Now whether these guys are great leaders we will see, but I know what we had and it was awful. It won't take long to see.
True. But the leader at the top hasn't changed. Maybe Williams, Cherington and Shelton will impress upon Nutting that he needs to change his ways to succeed in MLB (beyond the idea that success = profit). It always seemed to me that Coonelly, Huntington and Hurdle were just glad to have their jobs. Nutting needs to change. Maybe this new management team can make a difference.
I don't know but it's pretty obvious he's not involved in the day to day operations. He's a businessman and no real business can operate with a negative income except our government and even that will come to an end sometime. I unlike most on this board don't believe money is the problem. Here's some reasons I think I'm right Washington 199 million, tampa bay 104 million, Twins 151 million, Dodgers 208 million, Astros 178 million, Athletics 87 Million, Yankees 193 Million, Cardinals 176 Million, Braves 133 Million, Brewers 113 million, Mariners 174 million, Orioles 161 million, Pirates 109 million, Tigers 148 million, Angels 206 million. This info is from forbes as of April 2019. Notice the amounts paid players are all over the place. I inculded the top teams and the bottom teams. The rational that buying players is the way to have a winning team is blown out of the water for the most part. It starts with the GM and the Manager and sometimes the President, sounds like Connely interferred with the Pirates. Anyway just want to emphasis it's going to take a lot more than spending more money for the Pirates to win.
What do those Forbes numbers represent? It's not payroll.