Shane Baez Report
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
-
CarolinaBucco
Shane Baez Report
At the time of the deal, I honestly thought Glasnow & Meadows was fair value for Archer. I thought it was a good, fair baseball trade.
Then I heard about the dreaded "PTBNL."
Then I got a sick feeling.
Then later I heard it was Baz.
And at that point, I felt the trade was basically a disaster.
Look, franchises like the Pirates who are small market and DESPERATE for pitching don't just "throw in" first-round draft picks who throw upper 90s.
Those kind of players are not throw-ins and afterthoughts.
COMPLETELY INEXCUSABLE. AND IDIOTIC.
Then I heard about the dreaded "PTBNL."
Then I got a sick feeling.
Then later I heard it was Baz.
And at that point, I felt the trade was basically a disaster.
Look, franchises like the Pirates who are small market and DESPERATE for pitching don't just "throw in" first-round draft picks who throw upper 90s.
Those kind of players are not throw-ins and afterthoughts.
COMPLETELY INEXCUSABLE. AND IDIOTIC.
-
Bobster21
Shane Baez Report
734E505D52585371594E5F59583C0 wrote: They should probably fire Huntington for that trade.
I think fans were exited about getting Archer either because (1) he was a well known pitcher with a reputation for being very good and fans didn't realize he had not been particularly effective for the past 2+ years prior to the trade or (2) they were aware of his decline but gave NH the benefit of the doubt and believed Archer was still the pitcher he was in 2015 and there must have been circumstances that resulted in his worsening stats since then. Unfortunately, Archer is clearly not the pitcher he was 2013-2015 and if anything, has declined even more since being acquired. So any benefit of the doubt given to NH was misplaced. It now appears that NH made a very bad decision to acquire a "name" player despite Archer's obvious decline.
It reminds me of NH's terrible Jason Bay trade. The Red Sox wanted to deal Manny Ramirez to the Dodgers but apparently couldn't work out compensation. Enter new GM NH who gets to play with the big boys and steps in to give Boston Jason Bay as the return for Ramirez. And Boston and LA pitch in to each send junk to the Pirates. NH seemed so excited to be part of that big deal while being fleeced. I wanted to believe Archer was a lot better than his stats had indicated the past 2+ years prior to the trade. I wanted to believe NH had made a sound trade. But clearly that was not the case. It's also possible, considering how this team is run from the top, that Archer's decline was well understood by the Pirates but wanted Archer anyway. Nutting & Co do very little to build a winning team. Even if Archer had been great, they wouldn't have had enough last year to make a difference and they did as little as possible this offseason. So it never looked like Archer was part of an overall plan to substantially improve the team. So maybe the point of the Archer trade was more about reviving fan interest with a player the fans had heard of than it was about making a fair trade to improve the team. I'm sure NH's job is safe. Nutting seems satisfied and winning isn't the top priority.
I think fans were exited about getting Archer either because (1) he was a well known pitcher with a reputation for being very good and fans didn't realize he had not been particularly effective for the past 2+ years prior to the trade or (2) they were aware of his decline but gave NH the benefit of the doubt and believed Archer was still the pitcher he was in 2015 and there must have been circumstances that resulted in his worsening stats since then. Unfortunately, Archer is clearly not the pitcher he was 2013-2015 and if anything, has declined even more since being acquired. So any benefit of the doubt given to NH was misplaced. It now appears that NH made a very bad decision to acquire a "name" player despite Archer's obvious decline.
It reminds me of NH's terrible Jason Bay trade. The Red Sox wanted to deal Manny Ramirez to the Dodgers but apparently couldn't work out compensation. Enter new GM NH who gets to play with the big boys and steps in to give Boston Jason Bay as the return for Ramirez. And Boston and LA pitch in to each send junk to the Pirates. NH seemed so excited to be part of that big deal while being fleeced. I wanted to believe Archer was a lot better than his stats had indicated the past 2+ years prior to the trade. I wanted to believe NH had made a sound trade. But clearly that was not the case. It's also possible, considering how this team is run from the top, that Archer's decline was well understood by the Pirates but wanted Archer anyway. Nutting & Co do very little to build a winning team. Even if Archer had been great, they wouldn't have had enough last year to make a difference and they did as little as possible this offseason. So it never looked like Archer was part of an overall plan to substantially improve the team. So maybe the point of the Archer trade was more about reviving fan interest with a player the fans had heard of than it was about making a fair trade to improve the team. I'm sure NH's job is safe. Nutting seems satisfied and winning isn't the top priority.
-
OrlandoMerced
Shane Baez Report
Baz being the PTBNL was pretty absurd.
Meadows does have some issues staying healthy, and he has already spent some time on the IL this year, so there's a chance that he becomes more like a Corey Dickerson than Christian Yelich. Giving up on Glasnow still makes no sense, though his issue has always been repeating his delivery, I wonder if this injury ends up derailing his season. In which case he oscillates between brilliance and bad.
The Pirates just have to be better at getting the best out of their prospects, and not the worst.
Meadows does have some issues staying healthy, and he has already spent some time on the IL this year, so there's a chance that he becomes more like a Corey Dickerson than Christian Yelich. Giving up on Glasnow still makes no sense, though his issue has always been repeating his delivery, I wonder if this injury ends up derailing his season. In which case he oscillates between brilliance and bad.
The Pirates just have to be better at getting the best out of their prospects, and not the worst.
-
steve49
Shane Baez Report
745F5E435840597542545458370 wrote: He's had 5 really nice starts at A ball
Prob an MVP Cy Young kinda guy
Or maybe he can turn into a Chris Archer type ace ?
sure
or maybe not make it to the show at all
or maybe break John Van Benchoten's high ERA record (does he still hold it)
or somewhere in between.
long way to go
That's why I labeled the thread as a "report." BUT I would think that Baez value is up since the trade. Five very nice starts , throwing 5 pitches and sitting 95-97 , topping out at 100 MPH. Pretty good for a 19 year old ? No ... or am I missing something ? He could blow his arm out tomorrow and be worthless but at this point in time , he "appears" to be another very nice piece for Tampa Bay. No ?
I don't think there is anything in my post that states he's "arrived" as a great pitcher ? Oh and this trade is still highway robbery if Baez never makes it past A ball. You must be one of those that liked the deal ? I could look back in the tread but I won't bother.
Prob an MVP Cy Young kinda guy
Or maybe he can turn into a Chris Archer type ace ?
sure
or maybe not make it to the show at all
or maybe break John Van Benchoten's high ERA record (does he still hold it)
or somewhere in between.
long way to go
That's why I labeled the thread as a "report." BUT I would think that Baez value is up since the trade. Five very nice starts , throwing 5 pitches and sitting 95-97 , topping out at 100 MPH. Pretty good for a 19 year old ? No ... or am I missing something ? He could blow his arm out tomorrow and be worthless but at this point in time , he "appears" to be another very nice piece for Tampa Bay. No ?
I don't think there is anything in my post that states he's "arrived" as a great pitcher ? Oh and this trade is still highway robbery if Baez never makes it past A ball. You must be one of those that liked the deal ? I could look back in the tread but I won't bother.
Shane Baez Report
If the Bucs were on the receiving end of getting Meadows, Glasnow and Baz for a pitcher like Archer, everyone on this Board would be ecstatic about how well Baz is doing this year.
He clearly has a long way to go. That said, young pitchers who throw upper 90's and who roll off 5 good starts in a row spell HOPE. Frankly, I would like to have a bit more HOPE in Pittsburgh right now.
He clearly has a long way to go. That said, young pitchers who throw upper 90's and who roll off 5 good starts in a row spell HOPE. Frankly, I would like to have a bit more HOPE in Pittsburgh right now.
-
steve49
Shane Baez Report
022E26212A0D3A2C3C4F0 wrote: If the Bucs were on the receiving end of getting Meadows, Glasnow and Baz for a pitcher like Archer, everyone on this Board would be ecstatic about how well Baz is doing this year.
He clearly has a long way to go. That said, young pitchers who throw upper 90's and who roll off 5 good starts in a row spell HOPE. Frankly, I would like to have a bit more HOPE in Pittsburgh right now.
It's just those that liked this horrible deal when it happened trying to defend themselves. Guarantee if you look back at the threads , they liked the deal. It was total blundering. Glasnow never really had a chance last year. Banished to the BP was really silly. All he needed to do was get the ball back from the catcher , stop thinking so much and throw it. If you read what's out there , that's what he did in the minors and then did it when he left the Pirates. Meadows was also butchered by Hurdle. The guy tears it up and all of a sudden Hurdle plays him like every 3rd day to give some older stiff playing time. We sold both these guys at their lowest ever value. Now to Baez...he was like the 8th pick in the draft was 18 and had a great arm. So now at this point in time , he's pitching like the 8th pick in a draft. I've been a loyal fan since 1959 . I stuck with them after they went to hall in the 90's. This trade just tilts me so bad , that I like you have little hope. How in the world can a team that won't spend, pawn 3 of their top 5 prospect to chase a wild card spot that they had about a 10% chance of winning ? Sick....
He clearly has a long way to go. That said, young pitchers who throw upper 90's and who roll off 5 good starts in a row spell HOPE. Frankly, I would like to have a bit more HOPE in Pittsburgh right now.
It's just those that liked this horrible deal when it happened trying to defend themselves. Guarantee if you look back at the threads , they liked the deal. It was total blundering. Glasnow never really had a chance last year. Banished to the BP was really silly. All he needed to do was get the ball back from the catcher , stop thinking so much and throw it. If you read what's out there , that's what he did in the minors and then did it when he left the Pirates. Meadows was also butchered by Hurdle. The guy tears it up and all of a sudden Hurdle plays him like every 3rd day to give some older stiff playing time. We sold both these guys at their lowest ever value. Now to Baez...he was like the 8th pick in the draft was 18 and had a great arm. So now at this point in time , he's pitching like the 8th pick in a draft. I've been a loyal fan since 1959 . I stuck with them after they went to hall in the 90's. This trade just tilts me so bad , that I like you have little hope. How in the world can a team that won't spend, pawn 3 of their top 5 prospect to chase a wild card spot that they had about a 10% chance of winning ? Sick....
-
ChitownBucco
- Posts: 492
- Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:10 pm
Shane Baez Report
3B3C2D3E2D7C71480 wrote: He's had 5 really nice starts at A ball
Prob an MVP Cy Young kinda guy
Or maybe he can turn into a Chris Archer type ace ?
sure
or maybe not make it to the show at all
or maybe break John Van Benchoten's high ERA record (does he still hold it)
or somewhere in between.
long way to go
That's why I labeled the thread as a "report." BUT I would think that Baez value is up since the trade. Five very nice starts , throwing 5 pitches and sitting 95-97 , topping out at 100 MPH. Pretty good for a 19 year old ? No ... or am I missing something ? He could blow his arm out tomorrow and be worthless but at this point in time , he "appears" to be another very nice piece for Tampa Bay. No ?
I don't think there is anything in my post that states he's "arrived" as a great pitcher ? Oh and this trade is still highway robbery if Baez never makes it past A ball. You must be one of those that liked the deal ? I could look back in the tread but I won't bother.
that was the title of the thread, but I believe there was a question in the post about the potential of the Pirates giving up a future MVP Cy young
Prob an MVP Cy Young kinda guy
Or maybe he can turn into a Chris Archer type ace ?
sure
or maybe not make it to the show at all
or maybe break John Van Benchoten's high ERA record (does he still hold it)
or somewhere in between.
long way to go
That's why I labeled the thread as a "report." BUT I would think that Baez value is up since the trade. Five very nice starts , throwing 5 pitches and sitting 95-97 , topping out at 100 MPH. Pretty good for a 19 year old ? No ... or am I missing something ? He could blow his arm out tomorrow and be worthless but at this point in time , he "appears" to be another very nice piece for Tampa Bay. No ?
I don't think there is anything in my post that states he's "arrived" as a great pitcher ? Oh and this trade is still highway robbery if Baez never makes it past A ball. You must be one of those that liked the deal ? I could look back in the tread but I won't bother.
that was the title of the thread, but I believe there was a question in the post about the potential of the Pirates giving up a future MVP Cy young
-
steve49
Shane Baez Report
0823223F243C25093E2828244B0 wrote: He's had 5 really nice starts at A ball
Prob an MVP Cy Young kinda guy
Or maybe he can turn into a Chris Archer type ace ?
sure
or maybe not make it to the show at all
or maybe break John Van Benchoten's high ERA record (does he still hold it)
or somewhere in between.
long way to go
That's why I labeled the thread as a "report." BUT I would think that Baez value is up since the trade. Five very nice starts , throwing 5 pitches and sitting 95-97 , topping out at 100 MPH. Pretty good for a 19 year old ? No ... or am I missing something ? He could blow his arm out tomorrow and be worthless but at this point in time , he "appears" to be another very nice piece for Tampa Bay. No ?
I don't think there is anything in my post that states he's "arrived" as a great pitcher ? Oh and this trade is still highway robbery if Baez never makes it past A ball. You must be one of those that liked the deal ? I could look back in the tread but I won't bother.
that was the title of the thread, but I believe there was a question in the post about the potential of the Pirates giving up a future MVP Cy young
Read it slowly and carefully. I was referring to Glasnow as Cy Yound and Meadows as an MVP....not Baez. I can see if you read it quickly , you might think that. But pretty clear as I say "in addition" Baez is showing signs of being good also ?
Both Meadows and Glasnow have been tremendous this year but I wrote this a bit tongue in cheek as it's doubtful both would win those awards.
Prob an MVP Cy Young kinda guy
Or maybe he can turn into a Chris Archer type ace ?
sure
or maybe not make it to the show at all
or maybe break John Van Benchoten's high ERA record (does he still hold it)
or somewhere in between.
long way to go
That's why I labeled the thread as a "report." BUT I would think that Baez value is up since the trade. Five very nice starts , throwing 5 pitches and sitting 95-97 , topping out at 100 MPH. Pretty good for a 19 year old ? No ... or am I missing something ? He could blow his arm out tomorrow and be worthless but at this point in time , he "appears" to be another very nice piece for Tampa Bay. No ?
I don't think there is anything in my post that states he's "arrived" as a great pitcher ? Oh and this trade is still highway robbery if Baez never makes it past A ball. You must be one of those that liked the deal ? I could look back in the tread but I won't bother.
that was the title of the thread, but I believe there was a question in the post about the potential of the Pirates giving up a future MVP Cy young
Read it slowly and carefully. I was referring to Glasnow as Cy Yound and Meadows as an MVP....not Baez. I can see if you read it quickly , you might think that. But pretty clear as I say "in addition" Baez is showing signs of being good also ?
Both Meadows and Glasnow have been tremendous this year but I wrote this a bit tongue in cheek as it's doubtful both would win those awards.
-
Bobster21