If I try really hard, I can be convinced that the Pirates have enough young, talented, high-end position players to potentially be really good in the next 2-5 years.
However, no matter how much I want it, I can't convince myself that we have anywhere near enough pitching to be competitive in the coming years. And it's not even remotely close. I mean there is a Grand Canyon sized gap between our young positional player talent and our young pitching prospects.
I think this reality will continue to doom the franchise and stunt any potential success.
It's a sad situation.
Contreras MIGHT be a solid MLB starter.
Keller MAYBE has figured it out.
Priester MIGHT be good ... in the same way Glasnow and Keller were supposed to be elite pitching talents.
If the window is the next 2-5 years, I just don't see anywhere near enough pitching to be competitive. And I know Nutting isn't going to spend a dime on proven starting pitching to complement the young bats.
Might be a lot of 11-8 losses coming up in the years ahead.
Looking ahead
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JollyRoger
- Posts: 1469
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:31 pm
Looking ahead
We have to hope that multiple college pitchers that we drafted turn out to be solid ML pitchers. Also perhaps Solometo and Chandler can be fast tracked if they show the skill and ability. Finally it would be nice to get lucky in the International draft. You are right about one thing. Nutting will not pony up for a decent starter if the price is going to be north of $20M a year
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JollyRoger
- Posts: 1469
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:31 pm
Looking ahead
Looking ahead I am anxious to see that San Diego lineup with Tatis, Soto, Machado, and Bell in the middle of the order! I hope they can dethrone the Dodgers in the next couple of years
Looking ahead
5C7E6D707376717E5D6A7C7C701F0 wrote: If I try really hard, I can be convinced that the Pirates have enough young, talented, high-end position players to potentially be really good in the next 2-5 years.
However, no matter how much I want it, I can't convince myself that we have anywhere near enough pitching to be competitive in the coming years. And it's not even remotely close. I mean there is a Grand Canyon sized gap between our young positional player talent and our young pitching prospects.
I think this reality will continue to doom the franchise and stunt any potential success.
It's a sad situation.
Contreras MIGHT be a solid MLB starter.
Keller MAYBE has figured it out.
Priester MIGHT be good ... in the same way Glasnow and Keller were supposed to be elite pitching talents.
If the window is the next 2-5 years, I just don't see anywhere near enough pitching to be competitive. And I know Nutting isn't going to spend a dime on proven starting pitching to complement the young bats.
Might be a lot of 11-8 losses coming up in the years ahead.
Could be we will just need to rely on Shelton's bullpen management skills. I guess we are doomed.
However, no matter how much I want it, I can't convince myself that we have anywhere near enough pitching to be competitive in the coming years. And it's not even remotely close. I mean there is a Grand Canyon sized gap between our young positional player talent and our young pitching prospects.
I think this reality will continue to doom the franchise and stunt any potential success.
It's a sad situation.
Contreras MIGHT be a solid MLB starter.
Keller MAYBE has figured it out.
Priester MIGHT be good ... in the same way Glasnow and Keller were supposed to be elite pitching talents.
If the window is the next 2-5 years, I just don't see anywhere near enough pitching to be competitive. And I know Nutting isn't going to spend a dime on proven starting pitching to complement the young bats.
Might be a lot of 11-8 losses coming up in the years ahead.
Could be we will just need to rely on Shelton's bullpen management skills. I guess we are doomed.
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maher.timothy20@gm
Looking ahead
43666565705B666E6C7B090 wrote: Looking ahead I am anxious to see that San Diego lineup with Tatis, Soto, Machado, and Bell in the middle of the order! I hope they can dethrone the Dodgers in the next couple of years
Josh Bell is a free agent after this year, I'm pretty sure. I know the Padres are spenders these days, but can they afford everyone?
Josh Bell is a free agent after this year, I'm pretty sure. I know the Padres are spenders these days, but can they afford everyone?
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maher.timothy20@gm
Looking ahead
But getting back to the original premise of this thread:
Even if all those guys turn out to be great, it could be years and years before we know.
Think of: Josh Bell, Jameson Taillon, Joe Musgrove (and a dozen other examples, Jose Bautista, etc.). All considered elite, but it took years. And I don't buy that the Pirates coaches held them back. They needed time. Baseball is a hard sport.
It could be 2028 before we know if these young players are for real.
Even if all those guys turn out to be great, it could be years and years before we know.
Think of: Josh Bell, Jameson Taillon, Joe Musgrove (and a dozen other examples, Jose Bautista, etc.). All considered elite, but it took years. And I don't buy that the Pirates coaches held them back. They needed time. Baseball is a hard sport.
It could be 2028 before we know if these young players are for real.
Looking ahead
To me, the Padres and the Dodgers are now one and the same. The only baseball stars that they don't get are the ones that they don't want in the first place.
For example, a Hosmer or Will Meyers signing would have tanked a lot of teams. But, Hosmer doesn't want to go to the Nats. No problem, send him to Boston and pay his remaining 45,000,000 mil salary. Perhaps it won't happen, but Padres' fans likely will soon gain that insufferable sense of entitlement that Yankee fans have.
With respect to the main thrust of the original thread, the Bucs need to keep on drafting high end pitchers, to pick up any pitcher who has ever even sniffed a sense of talent on the waiverDFA wire, and eventually, trade position player talent for pitching talent. Also, there are some arms in the minors who could help in the next 2 years.
For example, a Hosmer or Will Meyers signing would have tanked a lot of teams. But, Hosmer doesn't want to go to the Nats. No problem, send him to Boston and pay his remaining 45,000,000 mil salary. Perhaps it won't happen, but Padres' fans likely will soon gain that insufferable sense of entitlement that Yankee fans have.
With respect to the main thrust of the original thread, the Bucs need to keep on drafting high end pitchers, to pick up any pitcher who has ever even sniffed a sense of talent on the waiverDFA wire, and eventually, trade position player talent for pitching talent. Also, there are some arms in the minors who could help in the next 2 years.
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UtahPirate
- Posts: 582
- Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:36 pm
Looking ahead
A look through our minors shows multiple arms with good bullpen capabilities.
What it doesn't reveal are pitchers who look to be decent starters at the MLB level.
There are 10 pitchers on our MLB Top-30 and most are starters, but digging into how they are doing isn't promising. Only one, Burrows, is as far as AAA, and he's yet to get settled there. Some are really young, Chandler and Solometo, Thomas is a reliever and pitching well, and Malone just shouldn't be on the list as he has hardly pitched since we acquired him.
I've wanted to post this analysis from Pirate Prospects on BC trades. I think it shows that he has had some ability to get good position players in trades, but outside of Contreras, his pitching pick ups haven't been that great. And given how well some of our ex-players have done after being traded, it can be argued that he hasn't gotten enough talent back in general.
https://piratesprospects.com/2022/08/wi ... story.html
What it doesn't reveal are pitchers who look to be decent starters at the MLB level.
There are 10 pitchers on our MLB Top-30 and most are starters, but digging into how they are doing isn't promising. Only one, Burrows, is as far as AAA, and he's yet to get settled there. Some are really young, Chandler and Solometo, Thomas is a reliever and pitching well, and Malone just shouldn't be on the list as he has hardly pitched since we acquired him.
I've wanted to post this analysis from Pirate Prospects on BC trades. I think it shows that he has had some ability to get good position players in trades, but outside of Contreras, his pitching pick ups haven't been that great. And given how well some of our ex-players have done after being traded, it can be argued that he hasn't gotten enough talent back in general.
https://piratesprospects.com/2022/08/wi ... story.html
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maher.timothy20@gm
Looking ahead
65445158605942514455300 wrote: A look through our minors shows multiple arms with good bullpen capabilities.
What it doesn't reveal are pitchers who look to be decent starters at the MLB level.
There are 10 pitchers on our MLB Top-30 and most are starters, but digging into how they are doing isn't promising. Only one, Burrows, is as far as AAA, and he's yet to get settled there. Some are really young, Chandler and Solometo, Thomas is a reliever and pitching well, and Malone just shouldn't be on the list as he has hardly pitched since we acquired him.
I've wanted to post this analysis from Pirate Prospects on BC trades. I think it shows that he has had some ability to get good position players in trades, but outside of Contreras, his pitching pick ups haven't been that great. And given how well some of our ex-players have done after being traded, it can be argued that he hasn't gotten enough talent back in general.
https://piratesprospects.com/2022/08/wi ... story.html
Josh Bell trade is looking pretty shit right now. Have no idea where Eddy Yean is right now.
We will clearly need to 1) sign a solid free-agent starter and 2) probably trade one/some of our high-end infielders for pitching.
What it doesn't reveal are pitchers who look to be decent starters at the MLB level.
There are 10 pitchers on our MLB Top-30 and most are starters, but digging into how they are doing isn't promising. Only one, Burrows, is as far as AAA, and he's yet to get settled there. Some are really young, Chandler and Solometo, Thomas is a reliever and pitching well, and Malone just shouldn't be on the list as he has hardly pitched since we acquired him.
I've wanted to post this analysis from Pirate Prospects on BC trades. I think it shows that he has had some ability to get good position players in trades, but outside of Contreras, his pitching pick ups haven't been that great. And given how well some of our ex-players have done after being traded, it can be argued that he hasn't gotten enough talent back in general.
https://piratesprospects.com/2022/08/wi ... story.html
Josh Bell trade is looking pretty shit right now. Have no idea where Eddy Yean is right now.
We will clearly need to 1) sign a solid free-agent starter and 2) probably trade one/some of our high-end infielders for pitching.