Pedro Alvarez Overall Career Grade

[DemDog]

Listening to 93.7 the Fan and they asked this question.  How would you rate Pedro's career?



Please consider the following:



2008 1st Round listed based on WAR



2008 1st Round listed based on OPS



2008 1st Round listed based on HRs



2008 1st Round listed based on BA



Before you vote please carefully consider all of them.  And as far as fielding Pedro's fielding did not go south til late in his Pirate career but it is still important.



Happy Voting!

[Bobster21]

Of course, rating his career takes into consideration a great deal more than how he compares to his draft class peers. But even that isn't so good other than HRs, which greatly boosts OPS. IMHO, he was expected to be a franchise player but wound up as just a regular starter. The HRs were nice but not enough to offset the low frequency of hits, the high frequency of Ks and the defense that became unacceptable. By age 30 he was back in AAA. Now at age 31, he's DFA'd and trying to hang on.

[Quail]

The question, I think, begs a more nuanced answer than a single answer in the poll can sufficiently address. While there's no question that Pedro was a regular starter for several years, as his defense eroded he became less than a full game player (replaced in later innings of games for defensive purposes), then a platoon-type player, and finally a bench bat. Based on his entire career he averaged 101 games played per season, and for that reason I see him as something less than a regular, but more than strictly a bench player. If there were a poll answer that slotted between regular starter and bench player I think that's what I'd choose.

[CTBucco]

6E4A5E56533F0 wrote: The question, I think, begs a more nuanced answer than a single answer in the poll can sufficiently address. While there's no question that Pedro was a regular starter for several years, as his defense eroded he became less than a full game player (replaced in later innings of games for defensive purposes), then a platoon-type player, and finally a bench bat. Based on his entire career he averaged 101 games played per season, and for that reason I see him as something less than a regular, but more than strictly a bench player. If there were a poll answer that slotted between regular starter and bench player I think that's what I'd choose.
For what the Pirates hoped to get with the 2nd overall pick, he did not live up to expectations. He had some good seasons, but the problem was that he wasn't dominant enough with his bat to overcome his defensive weaknesses. I don't think you hope to get a "MLB regular DH" with the #2 pick. His defensive weakness was somewhat predictable given his physique. I just don't know that Posey was so much of a sure thing coming off one big college season and maybe not being able to stick at catcher.

[Quail]

5047516670707C130 wrote: The question, I think, begs a more nuanced answer than a single answer in the poll can sufficiently address. While there's no question that Pedro was a regular starter for several years, as his defense eroded he became less than a full game player (replaced in later innings of games for defensive purposes), then a platoon-type player, and finally a bench bat. Based on his entire career he averaged 101 games played per season, and for that reason I see him as something less than a regular, but more than strictly a bench player. If there were a poll answer that slotted between regular starter and bench player I think that's what I'd choose.
For what the Pirates hoped to get with the 2nd overall pick, he did not live up to expectations.  He had some good seasons, but the problem was that he wasn't dominant enough with his bat to overcome his defensive weaknesses.  I don't think you hope to get a "MLB regular DH" with the #2 pick.  His defensive weakness was somewhat predictable given his physique.  I just don't know that Posey was so much of a sure thing coming off one big college season and maybe not being able to stick at catcher.


I agree completely that Pedro didn't live up to the expectations of a #2 pick. In that context I'd say he might have been expected to be a franchise-type player, and as a consequence could be viewed as an utter failure. My rating of him was independent of any expectations, and simply on his production during the entirety of his career.

[dmetz]

It's a telling poll.   I think it would hold true with most pirates fans.



I wish there was a way to measure expectations between fanbases.   The bar pirates fans set for our players has to be among the lowest in baseball.



Pedro also is another of a growing list of recent examples where a player hit best as a 23 year old rookie call up.   He never hit better, rate stat wise.

[SammyKhalifa]

212820313F450 wrote: It's a telling poll.   I think it would hold true with most pirates fans.



I wish there was a way to measure expectations between fanbases.   The bar pirates fans set for our players has to be among the lowest in baseball.



Pedro also is another of a growing list of  recent examples where a player hit best as a 23 year old rookie call up.   He never hit better, rate stat wise.


I don't know how you can give him other than a "C."  He wasn't the star anyone hoped or wanted, but he wasn't Bubba Starling either.  F=never makes The Show, and I'm pretty sure that's not a Pirate Fanbase Expectation issue.



I don't like his career trajectory, but I also think impressions of it would be different if the rest of the team had held up their end of the deal a few years back, and we had beaten the Cardinals and gone on to the championship.  Then he'd be remembered very differently--as the guy that gave us a few good years at the right time then burned out.



(to be clear, I mean C=grade in the pick due to league failures, not "Regular Starter."  In that I'd say Bench Player.)

[dmetz]

I can't give him a C.  He's not even amassed 7 WAR for his career which now is just about over.    Had he not had the yips, he may have been a C,  he's an easy D.   



13 people polled feel his career is a C, I guess.   An average career at 6.5WAR accumulated? We could build a team full of those career C's and never sniff .500 again, let alone win anything worthwhile

[SammyKhalifa]

7C757D6C62180 wrote: I can't give him a C.  He's not even amassed 7 WAR for his career which now is just about over.    Had he not had the yips, he may have been a C,  he's an easy D.   



13 people polled feel his career is a C, I guess.   An average career at 6.5WAR accumulated?   We could build a team full of those career C's and never sniff .500 again, let alone win anything worthwhile


By very definition a team full of Cs would not win anything worthwhile.  I'm not sure what the issue is.  If you're comparing to expectations instead of in a vacuum I guess I'd agree with you though. 



Maybe I just grade too much to the typical Bell Curve.  I also would not give the McCutchen pick an A (which I would reserve purely for HOFers).  A vast majority would be C- to C+.  I think only the Moskos pick would get an F. 



But eh, after some consideration I guess I'd go C-/D+ for Pedro.  Probably C-.  D or D- is a cup of coffee guy only. Pedro was impact, just not for very long.

[dmetz]

No issue.   I just find it fascinating. 



My guess is that if the same player with the same numbers and history were a Yankee or Dodger or Giant or Cardinal, their fans may even be majority F.   I've got no way to test it



I wonder what grade Rob Mackowiak would get for his career if given the same poll