Some thoughts on a boring night

[DemDog]

Setting around last evening doing my crochet and watching some British TV with my wife. Got to thinking about the 2020 Bucs and some players who may or may not be able to contribute to the team next year.



Seems that CH has been doing a lot of auditioning for kids who may do just that. What do you guys think about these guys?



Eric Gonzalez - Seems to be showing that he can play several places on the field. We know he can play the infield pretty good but I am surprised that he is getting a lot of work in the OF recently. - A supersub in 2020?



Kevin Kramer - A 2B by trade but has not been hitting that much. Last night's big hit? A sign of good things or just a freak night at the plate? - AAAA depth?



Jose Osuna - Great off the bench. Average as a regular but his ability to play defense all around might make him a good platoon guy in OF or 3B and also on off days for Bell against LHP at 1B - I think he makes the team.



Pablo Reyes - Has shown me a bit of moxy. He is a supersub candidate but at this point I think he is behind Gonzalez. AAAA all around dept.



Jacob Stallings - Supposed to be the backup to Diaz but I think he has become my choice to be the starter in 2020. Has become an average hitter but also provides really good defense and the kids that will be on the pitching staff seem to like him and are comfortable with him.



Cole Tucker - Great glove and hair. Needs to get his bat going. Could turn into a very good SS but with Newman entrenched there now Tucker seems to be the odd man out. Undecided on what to do with him early in 2020. Do you send him down so he can play every day? Or do you add him to the bench to start the year?



I may have missed a few guys so others can chime in with them. As for the pitching, well, that is a disaster happening. All the great hitting and defense can't win you games if the other team scores oodles of runs off your pitchers.

[Osushawn]

trade Tucker and Kramer and get some semblance of pitching in return. We have enough SS/2b types on the team that can handle it and Oneil Cruz isn't too far out.

[OrlandoMerced]

I would probably have Reyes, Osuna, Gonzalez and Stallings on my bench for next year. Osuna would have to show the ability to handle 3B though, and he would audition in ST for that. They will need to sign a starting catcher and a good 4OF to fill out the lineup.



Kramer and Tucker are sent down to AAA. Tucker would be first up should Newman get hurt or flop. Frazier has come around, he could not hack it in the leadoff spot, but I don't see how he didn't win the starting 2B job for 2020.



Have to hope Hayes takes a giant step forward to claim the 3B job at some point in 2020, that could then push Reyes or Osuna off the 25 man.



But, alas, the position players are not the problem heading into 2020.

[SammyKhalifa]

5A6660667D74627B150 wrote: trade Tucker and Kramer and get some semblance of pitching in return.  We have enough SS/2b types on the team that can handle it and Oneil Cruz isn't too far out. 


Actually I think that's why you move Frazier. Those guys aren't going to net anything quite yet, but are still probably better upside than Frazier.

[Bobster21]

Eric Gonzalez - I don't think he'll be back because that requires them to offer him arbitration. He won't break the bank but he's not so valuable as a supersub that it's worth paying him more than Reyes or Kramer to fill that role. I believe his increased playing time right now is due to trying to find justification for trading Luplow (.275, 13 HRs for Cleveland) for him as well as Hurdle's tendency to want to coddle his players and do something nice for Gonzalez.   



Kevin Kramer - A consistently strong hitter in the minors who's never had a chance to see MLB pitching with any regularity. Not much to be learned from his SSS. Frazier gets arbitration in 2020 so as his salary climbs way above the minimum (where it essentially still is), his days become numbered. Kramer may be the heir apparent to 2B whether he spends the time until then in AAA or getting more ABs with the Pirates next year as a cheaper supersub than Gonzalez would be.



Jose Osuna - Bell gets arbitration next year and is likely to be traded with a couple years of control before free agency. That could mean Osuna could be the starting 1Bman by 2021. For 2020, he could again be a sub at 1B, 3B and OF. 



Pablo Reyes - Yeah, AAAA seems about right. Someone you stash in AAA until injuries pile up.



Jacob Stallings - Has proven himself to be a competent MLB catcher and hitter. While he has turned heads this year, Diaz has been very bad both as a catcher and hitter and will likely not be back next year. Bucs will look for a modestly priced catcher to share the job with Stallings in 2020.



Cole Tucker - The wild card. Likely to begin 2020 in AAA but the first to get a call when an infielder gets hurt. He may be their best defensive SS and if/when he starts hitting consistently, they'll have to find a spot for him. Just as Reynolds forced them to find a spot for him after he was supposed to be a temporary recall from AAA this year when Marte got hurt early. And Tucker may not be too far off with his hitting. His .211 BA looks weak but he's only started 6 games this month and for the month he's hitting .265 with 3 triples. I suspect within the next 1-2 years Frazier will be gone, Tucker and Newman will be the middle infielders with Kramer on the bench. 

[SammyKhalifa]

745954454253440407360 wrote: Eric Gonzalez - I don't think he'll be back because that requires them to offer him arbitration. He won't break the bank but he's not so valuable as a supersub that it's worth paying him more than Reyes or Kramer to fill that role. I believe his increased playing time right now is due to trying to find justification for trading Luplow (.275, 13 HRs for Cleveland) for him as well as Hurdle's tendency to want to coddle his players and do something nice for Gonzalez.   






I don't know--not everything the do is for sneaky nefarious purposes.  I don't think anybody at all would think that playing him in the final junk weeks of a season "justifies" a trade if they just cut him this offseason.  They're looking to see if they want him for next year. 



Harrison and Mercer didn't see the field at the end of last year. If Hurdle wanted to "coddle" anyone it would have been them over someone that has hardly been on the team. But the management already knew they weren't coming back and so did the players.

[MaineBucs]

My comments are based on what I believe the Bucs should do this off-season, which is to trade Marte, Bell, and even Frazier as part of a rebuild. As such, I view players like Gonzalez, Kramer, and Reyes and short-term players who you can temporarily plug into the line-up to at least occupy a position. My short takes.



Gonzalez - Lots of poor swings, but he has shown that he can play a lot of positions. If he is relatively cheap, less than $2 mil a year, he may merit consideration as a super-sub, particularly if he can handle CF in the short-term. If Marte is gone Reynolds is the CF'er and no one else on the current team can handle CF.



Kramer - Strikes out a lot, even at AAA, but I doubt he can change that by more time at AAA. Appears to have some versatility. He could be in AAA or Pittsburgh, depending on how many holes there are on the roster. If Frazier is traded, should stick him at second to see how he performs.



Osuna - Osuna looks better in short stretches than he does with more playing time. His power has evaporated since he has taken over for the injured Bell. Warrants a spot on the roster, but he does not appear to be a building block.



Reyes - AAA or Pittsburgh based on need; he does not offer a lot.



Stallings - At present, he is the starting catcher for next year. Doesn't offer much at the plate, but he appears to be a serviceable #8 hitter, and his defense clearly is better than Diaz's.



Tucker - Tucker is the one player out of the group that Possum mentioned who appears to have the makings of a regular player in the majors. I also believe he would adjust (get better) to major league pitching with full-time play. I don't trade him. If Frazier is traded and Kramer fails to impress at 2nd, Bucs will need to decide if their better IF alignment is Tucker - SS/Newman - 2nd, or Newman - SS/Tucker - 2nd. I believe Tucker could be a building block.

[rucker59@gmail.com]

Possum i agree with most of your comments.



Gonzalez - I think they keep him as super sub. I suspect he’ll be pretty cheap through arb and he looks to solve a number of problems off the bench. 



Kramer - since I have a Frazier game jersey, Adam needs to stay.  I suspect Kramer gets one more year to develop.



Osuna - been a disappointment to me, but only because I was hoping for lightning in a bottle.  I don’t know what happens at 1st, but I agree that Bell gets traded and Osuna is most likely at 1st.



Reyes - I don’t see any significant role. Nor any part of significant trade. Because it’s the Pirates we’re talking about, I suspect he’ll be on the bench come April.



Stallings- nice season.  Starting catcher on opening day. 



Tucker - a bit of a different thought: I think Newman is a potential trade prospect.  Tucker moves into SS.



Other than Stallings, there is little in trade value to help the Pirates.  If Neal blows this up, Newman, Reynolds, Bell, and Marte will likely be gone.  Tucker, Osuna, and maybe Kramer will benefit.  Only Reyes looks to be of no consequence.

[Bobster21]

64565A5A4E7C5F565B5E5156370 wrote: Eric Gonzalez - I don't think he'll be back because that requires them to offer him arbitration. He won't break the bank but he's not so valuable as a supersub that it's worth paying him more than Reyes or Kramer to fill that role. I believe his increased playing time right now is due to trying to find justification for trading Luplow (.275, 13 HRs for Cleveland) for him as well as Hurdle's tendency to want to coddle his players and do something nice for Gonzalez.   






I don't know--not everything the do is for sneaky nefarious purposes.  I don't think anybody at all would think that playing him in the final junk weeks of a season "justifies" a trade if they just cut him this offseason.  They're looking to see if they want him for next year. 



Harrison and Mercer didn't see the field at the end of last year.  If Hurdle wanted to "coddle" anyone it would have been them over someone that has hardly been on the team.  But the management already knew they weren't coming back and so did the players. 
I'm not saying it's sneaky and nefarious. But I don't see Gonzalez coming back next year when he's arb eligible, doesn't have a key role on the team, and there are cheaper options for a supersub. But if that's true, then why is he getting so much PT now? I think there are several possible answers. One, of course, is that he performs absolutely lights out and makes them want to keep him next year even considering there are cheaper option for subs. That's not likely to happen but what have they got to lose in looking? After all, they traded a decent player for him and Luplow has performed nicely for Cleveland. They thought they were trading for their 2019 starting SS but it didn't turn out that way but at least they get something out of Gonzalez for a month even if he doesn't make them want to keep him next year. And Hurdle has a tendency to want all his players to get sufficient PT. Because of the injury to Gonzalez and the emergence of Newman, that hasn't happened for Gonzalez. But these games no longer matter and Gonzalez is getting as much time as possible so that even if he's not a Pirate next year, another team might give him a shot, which is a nice thing to do for Gonzalez. I don't see any of those reasons as sneaky and nefarious.   

[SammyKhalifa]

I think Moran is a good trade candidate, and Frazier: we have backup options that aren't even necessarily much of a step down.