Are the Pirates Enamored With Their Prospects
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Are the Pirates Enamored With Their Prospects
As we get closer to ST it appears the Pirates are not going to bring in a lefty pitcher like Gonzalez, or a middle infielder to back up Newman etc. Besides them being frugal, I think they feel guys like Kingham who has had a little success, as well as Reyes and Osuna are players who also have had some success can be as good as a veteran player coming off the bench. In some ways taking this type of approach is very risky, because the younger player who has had some success, may not adjust as other teams discover flaws in their game. At that time there isn’t a veteran player available to replace the struggling young player. Hopefully players like Newman, Reyes, Osuna, Erik Gonzalez as well as Kingham can be the players the Pirates Staff expects them to be. If they aren’t, the Pirates maybe in for a long summer.
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Bobster21
Are the Pirates Enamored With Their Prospects
I don't think the Pirates are fooling themselves about their prospects. Obviously, everything the team does is based on saving money and they routinely accept a talent level on their roster that would not satisfy more competitive teams. So I believe they are satisfied that their prospects will be at least minimally adequate in roles that might be better filled by more expensive players. The Pirates' model is to hope less expensive players overachieve instead of paying more for players with a proven history of production. That doesn't mean they expect their prospects to be better than what else is available to less miserly teams. But they hope that will be the case and it's worth it for them to take that risk because they seem to prioritize a less productive, less expensive team to a more productive, more expensive team. They want to win but only if it can be achieved at a low cost. And if their internal options turn out well, it gives the team the best of both worlds: performance at low cost.
So all we can do is hope things work out well. Maybe Gonzalez or Newman will do well at SS instead of obtaining a more experienced player. I'm not optimistic about Kingham. After that near perfect debut in which St.L. just took strikes down the middle of the plate, Kingham became a liability as everyone else teed off on him. I liked what I saw of Reyes late last season. I think he can help. I don't think Osuna will ever get enough opportunity to show what he can do. It's tough to be productive when playing so infrequently. Maybe Keller will be the real thing as well as Tucker. We just have to recognize that this is how TBMTIB operates and accept it for what it is. And hope for that overachievement.
So all we can do is hope things work out well. Maybe Gonzalez or Newman will do well at SS instead of obtaining a more experienced player. I'm not optimistic about Kingham. After that near perfect debut in which St.L. just took strikes down the middle of the plate, Kingham became a liability as everyone else teed off on him. I liked what I saw of Reyes late last season. I think he can help. I don't think Osuna will ever get enough opportunity to show what he can do. It's tough to be productive when playing so infrequently. Maybe Keller will be the real thing as well as Tucker. We just have to recognize that this is how TBMTIB operates and accept it for what it is. And hope for that overachievement.
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rucker59@gmail.com
Are the Pirates Enamored With Their Prospects
This is a good question, one I’ve just recently been thinking about myself. I believe my answer is similar toBobster:
The Pirates tend to waste money on middlin FAs, like a Jaso. I think prospects can often do as well and even better than the middlin FA. If the Pirates are not going to spend to acquire a true upgrade than why spend st all? I’d say they value their prospects favorably against the FA actually available to the Pirates. Personally, I’d rather see a prospect over John Jaso.
The Pirates tend to waste money on middlin FAs, like a Jaso. I think prospects can often do as well and even better than the middlin FA. If the Pirates are not going to spend to acquire a true upgrade than why spend st all? I’d say they value their prospects favorably against the FA actually available to the Pirates. Personally, I’d rather see a prospect over John Jaso.
Are the Pirates Enamored With Their Prospects
I don't disagree regarding Jaso. All things being equal, a prospect is a better bet than bringing in a "meh" FA like Jaso. But, just once, it would be nice to be in the conversation about someone exciting. I'm not even talking the Harpers and Machados of the world. The Brewers went out and got Grandal. That's a guy I'm talking about. I guess the Pirates were "in" on Tulowitzki, if that counts. I never used to be in the "Nutting is cheap" crowd. I don't know if he's cheap or not. What I do know is that the Pirates clearly value having the least expensive team on the field as opposed to the most productive. It's just frustrating as a fan being banned to baseball purgatory. What makes it worse is that I don't think Bob has any interest in selling the team. We're stuck with this model as fans until he decides to sell, or until a lottery ticket pays off (e.g. Liriano, Burnett, Martin), or until some top-tier FA who grew up a huge Pirates fan decides he doesn't care about the money and he's signing with his favorite team, or until MLB decides to do something about this sham ownership group.
It's borderline criminal the way TBMTIB takes the good citizens of Pittsburgh for a ride each year. You all pay to publicly finance that stadium, and what's the return? Three Wild Card teams in 26 years. Zero division titles. Zero pennants.
Pertaining to the original question, IDK if they overvalue prospects or not. What I do know is that winning is not the number one priority in Bob Nutting's mind. And that's sad, because ultimately, the fans are the ones who suffer.
It's borderline criminal the way TBMTIB takes the good citizens of Pittsburgh for a ride each year. You all pay to publicly finance that stadium, and what's the return? Three Wild Card teams in 26 years. Zero division titles. Zero pennants.
Pertaining to the original question, IDK if they overvalue prospects or not. What I do know is that winning is not the number one priority in Bob Nutting's mind. And that's sad, because ultimately, the fans are the ones who suffer.
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Bobster21
Are the Pirates Enamored With Their Prospects
0F07043325002728460 wrote: I don't disagree regarding Jaso. All things being equal, a prospect is a better bet than bringing in a "meh" FA like Jaso. But, just once, it would be nice to be in the conversation about someone exciting. I'm not even talking the Harpers and Machados of the world. The Brewers went out and got Grandal. That's a guy I'm talking about. I guess the Pirates were "in" on Tulowitzki, if that counts. I never used to be in the "Nutting is cheap" crowd. I don't know if he's cheap or not. What I do know is that the Pirates clearly value having the least expensive team on the field as opposed to the most productive. It's just frustrating as a fan being banned to baseball purgatory. What makes it worse is that I don't think Bob has any interest in selling the team. We're stuck with this model as fans until he decides to sell, or until a lottery ticket pays off (e.g. Liriano, Burnett, Martin), or until some top-tier FA who grew up a huge Pirates fan decides he doesn't care about the money and he's signing with his favorite team, or until MLB decides to do something about this sham ownership group.
It's borderline criminal the way TBMTIB takes the good citizens of Pittsburgh for a ride each year. You all pay to publicly finance that stadium, and what's the return? Three Wild Card teams in 26 years. Zero division titles. Zero pennants.
Pertaining to the original question, IDK if they overvalue prospects or not. What I do know is that winning is not the number one priority in Bob Nutting's mind. And that's sad, because ultimately, the fans are the ones who suffer.
I think you just defined "cheap."
It's borderline criminal the way TBMTIB takes the good citizens of Pittsburgh for a ride each year. You all pay to publicly finance that stadium, and what's the return? Three Wild Card teams in 26 years. Zero division titles. Zero pennants.
Pertaining to the original question, IDK if they overvalue prospects or not. What I do know is that winning is not the number one priority in Bob Nutting's mind. And that's sad, because ultimately, the fans are the ones who suffer.
I think you just defined "cheap."
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DemDog
Are the Pirates Enamored With Their Prospects
032E23323524337370410 wrote: I don't disagree regarding Jaso. All things being equal, a prospect is a better bet than bringing in a "meh" FA like Jaso. But, just once, it would be nice to be in the conversation about someone exciting. I'm not even talking the Harpers and Machados of the world. The Brewers went out and got Grandal. That's a guy I'm talking about. I guess the Pirates were "in" on Tulowitzki, if that counts. I never used to be in the "Nutting is cheap" crowd. I don't know if he's cheap or not. What I do know is that the Pirates clearly value having the least expensive team on the field as opposed to the most productive. It's just frustrating as a fan being banned to baseball purgatory. What makes it worse is that I don't think Bob has any interest in selling the team. We're stuck with this model as fans until he decides to sell, or until a lottery ticket pays off (e.g. Liriano, Burnett, Martin), or until some top-tier FA who grew up a huge Pirates fan decides he doesn't care about the money and he's signing with his favorite team, or until MLB decides to do something about this sham ownership group.
It's borderline criminal the way TBMTIB takes the good citizens of Pittsburgh for a ride each year. You all pay to publicly finance that stadium, and what's the return? Three Wild Card teams in 26 years. Zero division titles. Zero pennants.
Pertaining to the original question, IDK if they overvalue prospects or not. What I do know is that winning is not the number one priority in Bob Nutting's mind. And that's sad, because ultimately, the fans are the ones who suffer.
I think you just defined "cheap."
You guys are being too nice to Nutting by calling him cheap. I would suggest that he is a "penny-pincher". I bet he has the first penny he ever made or was given by his dad as a kid. Probably has it encased in lucite sitting on his living room mantle in a place of honor! ;D
It's borderline criminal the way TBMTIB takes the good citizens of Pittsburgh for a ride each year. You all pay to publicly finance that stadium, and what's the return? Three Wild Card teams in 26 years. Zero division titles. Zero pennants.
Pertaining to the original question, IDK if they overvalue prospects or not. What I do know is that winning is not the number one priority in Bob Nutting's mind. And that's sad, because ultimately, the fans are the ones who suffer.
I think you just defined "cheap."
You guys are being too nice to Nutting by calling him cheap. I would suggest that he is a "penny-pincher". I bet he has the first penny he ever made or was given by his dad as a kid. Probably has it encased in lucite sitting on his living room mantle in a place of honor! ;D
Are the Pirates Enamored With Their Prospects
424A497E684D6A650B0 wrote: I don't disagree regarding Jaso. All things being equal, a prospect is a better bet than bringing in a "meh" FA like Jaso. But, just once, it would be nice to be in the conversation about someone exciting. I'm not even talking the Harpers and Machados of the world. The Brewers went out and got Grandal. That's a guy I'm talking about. I guess the Pirates were "in" on Tulowitzki, if that counts. I never used to be in the "Nutting is cheap" crowd. I don't know if he's cheap or not. What I do know is that the Pirates clearly value having the least expensive team on the field as opposed to the most productive. It's just frustrating as a fan being banned to baseball purgatory. What makes it worse is that I don't think Bob has any interest in selling the team. We're stuck with this model as fans until he decides to sell, or until a lottery ticket pays off (e.g. Liriano, Burnett, Martin), or until some top-tier FA who grew up a huge Pirates fan decides he doesn't care about the money and he's signing with his favorite team, or until MLB decides to do something about this sham ownership group.
It's borderline criminal the way TBMTIB takes the good citizens of Pittsburgh for a ride each year. You all pay to publicly finance that stadium, and what's the return? Three Wild Card teams in 26 years. Zero division titles. Zero pennants.
Pertaining to the original question, IDK if they overvalue prospects or not. What I do know is that winning is not the number one priority in Bob Nutting's mind. And that's sad, because ultimately, the fans are the ones who suffer.
good post. the Bucs may not be overselling prospects internally but they are over selling them to fans (by saying we can win by developing own players and not spending money).
It's borderline criminal the way TBMTIB takes the good citizens of Pittsburgh for a ride each year. You all pay to publicly finance that stadium, and what's the return? Three Wild Card teams in 26 years. Zero division titles. Zero pennants.
Pertaining to the original question, IDK if they overvalue prospects or not. What I do know is that winning is not the number one priority in Bob Nutting's mind. And that's sad, because ultimately, the fans are the ones who suffer.
good post. the Bucs may not be overselling prospects internally but they are over selling them to fans (by saying we can win by developing own players and not spending money).
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BucsFaninGA
Are the Pirates Enamored With Their Prospects
Bobster, you nailed the philosophy and agenda of the Pirates Front Office..."They want to win but only if it can be achieved at a low cost. And if their internal options turn out well, it gives the team the best of both worlds: performance at low cost. "
Sad, but true right down to the last penny. Bottom Line Bob is all about profit vs loss. And we are stuck in this strategy, agenda until players over preform or Nutting sells the team. In many ways, we are literally stuck...
Beat'em Bucs
Sad, but true right down to the last penny. Bottom Line Bob is all about profit vs loss. And we are stuck in this strategy, agenda until players over preform or Nutting sells the team. In many ways, we are literally stuck...
Beat'em Bucs
Are the Pirates Enamored With Their Prospects
And I think it's premature to say they won't bring someone in. There are a ton of people out there yet. At some point in the next week or so there should be a cascade of signings. Once the dust settles from those we'll have a look at the bottom of the barrel and see who is left. It seems really late but that's because all teams are holding out for prices to come down.
Are the Pirates Enamored With Their Prospects
I think I might get a jersey labeled "Internal Option".
I would never have to worry about that player getting traded.
I would never have to worry about that player getting traded.