If they tear it down, to rebuild it.... Will they come?
I'm intrigued to see how the fanbase reacts to the product this year. Many on this board will remember the buzz around a "walk-out" that occurred during a nationals game in the past. Borne from disgust with ownership that appeared to not even be trying put a competitive team on the field. Well if some fans walked out of that game after the 3rd inning and spent that fan energy in creating a baby with your partner.... That baby is now a teenager. The walk-out was in 2007. We had our lightning in a bottle 3 year period, thanks to Cutch and the gang. But as fans, we are back where we started from in a no man's land. No hope for winning now, and no clear blueprint evident for the future year.
Eternal Optimism springing and ringing out in a very unique post-winter thaw. In a year where we aren't just digging out from a tough winter, but on the precipice of getting back to sports being played normally, with standard attendance.
The Pirates' new brass has done what they had to do in order to save the ownership some $ in tough times and to adhere to the small ball rebuild model.... stripped down to the bare minimum
They have no stars
They have little chance of competing this year
They barely have a shot at avoiding embarrassment
but does this team have some intangibles that will help fans look past the corrupt ownership and tune in to watch and listen to games? Can they activate any sector of the core die-hard fans in these unprecedented times?
Can you imagine a swell of hustlers, overachievers, that captivate the minds of disgruntled older fans and younger impressionable fans alike? Can there be something like the 1997 Freak show brewing? The Freak show was a team that surprised us, after starting to come to terms with the fact that Bonds, Bonilla, Drabek, Van Slyke were not walking through those mid 90's era Bucs clubhouse doors. We saw season win totals of 75, 53, 58. In 97 that mix of young talent and ballers gave us a ride and gave us a tiny oasis of hope in an otherwise desolate few decades as Pirate fans.
I haven't even really allowed myself to look at this year's team. Outside noise has also drowned out the attention I would normally give to investing deep into hope of the improbable.
But 2021 seems like a good why-not year. So do you see a potential for a group of players being assembled here, that may not be destined for a pennant, but can win us over with their style of play, cohesiveness, and passion? Can we see some winds of change blow through the franchise from the clubhouse up that starts something big?
Just give us a team to fall into LIKE with, in 2021 Pittsburgh, maybe it will grow into Love.
what parts of this 2021 bucco team do you think you can start to like in 2021 that might grow into love?
Scrappiness Factor and Freak show Potential
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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ChitownBucco
- Posts: 492
- Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:10 pm
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2drfischer@gmail.c
Scrappiness Factor and Freak show Potential
The last thing I want is for this group to play like the '97 team. That group offered little to no hope for the future. That's not what the organization needs right now, no matter how good it would feel for us fans for the coming season.
With the exception of Hayes, Reynolds, and maybe Newman, the current roster is filled with guys who aren't very good and don't have futures as major contributors to a World Series winning team. The team, the whole organization, needs rebuilt from the bottom up.
I prefer BC be honest with us, that he's completely rebuilding. He has little choice because he hasn't a team he can win with now. However, if he chooses young talent wisely, and they're developed correctly, we'll be rewarded in the near future. This is what should've been done after the 2016 season. Instead, the years since have been wasted as we watched Huntington spin his wheels by neither spending oodles of money or rebuilding completely. I don't want to go through that again for the next five years.
With the exception of Hayes, Reynolds, and maybe Newman, the current roster is filled with guys who aren't very good and don't have futures as major contributors to a World Series winning team. The team, the whole organization, needs rebuilt from the bottom up.
I prefer BC be honest with us, that he's completely rebuilding. He has little choice because he hasn't a team he can win with now. However, if he chooses young talent wisely, and they're developed correctly, we'll be rewarded in the near future. This is what should've been done after the 2016 season. Instead, the years since have been wasted as we watched Huntington spin his wheels by neither spending oodles of money or rebuilding completely. I don't want to go through that again for the next five years.
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WildwoodDave2
Scrappiness Factor and Freak show Potential
6335233738223239342311363C30383D7F32510 wrote: The last thing I want is for this group to play like the '97 team. That group offered little to no hope for the future. That's not what the organization needs right now, no matter how good it would feel for us fans for the coming season.
With the exception of Hayes, Reynolds, and maybe Newman, the current roster is filled with guys who aren't very good and don't have futures as major contributors to a World Series winning team. The team, the whole organization, needs rebuilt from the bottom up.
I prefer BC be honest with us, that he's completely rebuilding. He has little choice because he hasn't a team he can win with now. However, if he chooses young talent wisely, and they're developed correctly, we'll be rewarded in the near future. This is what should've been done after the 2016 season. Instead, the years since have been wasted as we watched Huntington spin his wheels by neither spending oodles of money or rebuilding completely. I don't want to go through that again for the next five years.
I always say How many of our position players would start for other teams .In regard to pitching, where would our #1 and #2 be in the other teams rotation.
With the exception of Hayes, Reynolds, and maybe Newman, the current roster is filled with guys who aren't very good and don't have futures as major contributors to a World Series winning team. The team, the whole organization, needs rebuilt from the bottom up.
I prefer BC be honest with us, that he's completely rebuilding. He has little choice because he hasn't a team he can win with now. However, if he chooses young talent wisely, and they're developed correctly, we'll be rewarded in the near future. This is what should've been done after the 2016 season. Instead, the years since have been wasted as we watched Huntington spin his wheels by neither spending oodles of money or rebuilding completely. I don't want to go through that again for the next five years.
I always say How many of our position players would start for other teams .In regard to pitching, where would our #1 and #2 be in the other teams rotation.
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2drfischer@gmail.c
Scrappiness Factor and Freak show Potential
0937323A2931313A1A3F283B6C5E0 wrote: The last thing I want is for this group to play like the '97 team. That group offered little to no hope for the future. That's not what the organization needs right now, no matter how good it would feel for us fans for the coming season.
With the exception of Hayes, Reynolds, and maybe Newman, the current roster is filled with guys who aren't very good and don't have futures as major contributors to a World Series winning team. The team, the whole organization, needs rebuilt from the bottom up.
I prefer BC be honest with us, that he's completely rebuilding. He has little choice because he hasn't a team he can win with now. However, if he chooses young talent wisely, and they're developed correctly, we'll be rewarded in the near future. This is what should've been done after the 2016 season. Instead, the years since have been wasted as we watched Huntington spin his wheels by neither spending oodles of money or rebuilding completely. I don't want to go through that again for the next five years.
I always say How many of our position players would start for other teams .In regard to pitching, where would our #1 and #2 be in the other teams rotation.
Right, we have be truthful about this roster. In spite of some nice Spring Training performances so far, it's best to consider what these players have done in their careers in regular season games. It hasn't been pretty for most of them.
With the exception of Hayes, Reynolds, and maybe Newman, the current roster is filled with guys who aren't very good and don't have futures as major contributors to a World Series winning team. The team, the whole organization, needs rebuilt from the bottom up.
I prefer BC be honest with us, that he's completely rebuilding. He has little choice because he hasn't a team he can win with now. However, if he chooses young talent wisely, and they're developed correctly, we'll be rewarded in the near future. This is what should've been done after the 2016 season. Instead, the years since have been wasted as we watched Huntington spin his wheels by neither spending oodles of money or rebuilding completely. I don't want to go through that again for the next five years.
I always say How many of our position players would start for other teams .In regard to pitching, where would our #1 and #2 be in the other teams rotation.
Right, we have be truthful about this roster. In spite of some nice Spring Training performances so far, it's best to consider what these players have done in their careers in regular season games. It hasn't been pretty for most of them.
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ChitownBucco
- Posts: 492
- Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:10 pm
Scrappiness Factor and Freak show Potential
I think my main question was, will people buy tickets and will people watch games?
for those on the fence, would a scrappy team with moxie and personality, that hustles and loses more close ones than they win keep you watching?
is this a likable team assembled, that will allow viewers to forgive them for losing 65% of their games?
for those on the fence, would a scrappy team with moxie and personality, that hustles and loses more close ones than they win keep you watching?
is this a likable team assembled, that will allow viewers to forgive them for losing 65% of their games?
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ChitownBucco
- Posts: 492
- Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:10 pm
Scrappiness Factor and Freak show Potential
2274627679637378756250777D71797C3E73100 wrote: The last thing I want is for this group to play like the '97 team. That group offered little to no hope for the future.
we might be mischaracterizing the 97 team
they were a young team, their starting line-up, might have been younger than this years and they had plenty of guys that were thought to be the future. They weren't a group of free agent guys like the 2003 season. They were young kids that the Pirates failed to develop in a timely way.
The starting rotation had 3 guys that would go on to have a couple 2nd place in Cy Young votes and top finishes. I don't think anyone in 1997 looked at their starting position players and though they didn't offer hope. Many of them did have long successful careers. They weren't duds
we might be mischaracterizing the 97 team
they were a young team, their starting line-up, might have been younger than this years and they had plenty of guys that were thought to be the future. They weren't a group of free agent guys like the 2003 season. They were young kids that the Pirates failed to develop in a timely way.
The starting rotation had 3 guys that would go on to have a couple 2nd place in Cy Young votes and top finishes. I don't think anyone in 1997 looked at their starting position players and though they didn't offer hope. Many of them did have long successful careers. They weren't duds
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2drfischer@gmail.c
Scrappiness Factor and Freak show Potential
7B50514C574F567A4D5B5B57380 wrote: The last thing I want is for this group to play like the '97 team. That group offered little to no hope for the future.
we might be mischaracterizing the 97 team
they were a young team, their starting line-up, might have been younger than this years and they had plenty of guys that were thought to be the future. They weren't a group of free agent guys like the 2003 season. They were young kids that the Pirates failed to develop in a timely way.
The starting rotation had 3 guys that would go on to have a couple 2nd place in Cy Young votes and top finishes. I don't think anyone in 1997 looked at their starting position players and though they didn't offer hope. Many of them did have long successful careers. They weren't duds
That '97 team won 79 games. The Pirates wouldn't win that many again for another 15 years. The players on that team, with the exception of a few, were not very good major league players, thus the declining records each year thereafter.
That's why I don't want this current group to fool us, like the '97 team did, and play way over their heads for one season, making us think they're going to be winners. The players who are going to form the next competitive team just joined the organization within the past year and a half or haven't been signed yet.
we might be mischaracterizing the 97 team
they were a young team, their starting line-up, might have been younger than this years and they had plenty of guys that were thought to be the future. They weren't a group of free agent guys like the 2003 season. They were young kids that the Pirates failed to develop in a timely way.
The starting rotation had 3 guys that would go on to have a couple 2nd place in Cy Young votes and top finishes. I don't think anyone in 1997 looked at their starting position players and though they didn't offer hope. Many of them did have long successful careers. They weren't duds
That '97 team won 79 games. The Pirates wouldn't win that many again for another 15 years. The players on that team, with the exception of a few, were not very good major league players, thus the declining records each year thereafter.
That's why I don't want this current group to fool us, like the '97 team did, and play way over their heads for one season, making us think they're going to be winners. The players who are going to form the next competitive team just joined the organization within the past year and a half or haven't been signed yet.
Scrappiness Factor and Freak show Potential
I prefer to think in terms of the early Leyland years. Let's see what we have, play fundamentally sound, see who wants to be part of the solution and don't expect or accept losing. Just like those teams, if this team shows that the interest will still be afar, not in the stands. Just my thoughts.
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WildwoodDave2
Scrappiness Factor and Freak show Potential
133532272E2235232B400 wrote: I prefer to think in terms of the early Leyland years. Let's see what we have, play fundamentally sound, see who wants to be part of the solution and don't expect or accept losing. Just like those teams, if this team shows that the interest will still be afar, not in the stands. Just my thoughts.
I would be happy if they were able to get out of the cellar
I would be happy if they were able to get out of the cellar
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rucker59@gmail.com
Scrappiness Factor and Freak show Potential
072C2D302B332A063127272B440 wrote: If they tear it down, to rebuild it.... Will they come?
I'm intrigued to see how the fanbase reacts to the product this year. Many on this board will remember the buzz around a "walk-out" that occurred during a nationals game in the past. Borne from disgust with ownership that appeared to not even be trying put a competitive team on the field. Well if some fans walked out of that game after the 3rd inning and spent that fan energy in creating a baby with your partner.... That baby is now a teenager. The walk-out was in 2007. We had our lightning in a bottle 3 year period, thanks to Cutch and the gang. But as fans, we are back where we started from in a no man's land. No hope for winning now, and no clear blueprint evident for the future year.
Eternal Optimism springing and ringing out in a very unique post-winter thaw. In a year where we aren't just digging out from a tough winter, but on the precipice of getting back to sports being played normally, with standard attendance.
The Pirates' new brass has done what they had to do in order to save the ownership some $ in tough times and to adhere to the small ball rebuild model.... stripped down to the bare minimum
They have no stars
They have little chance of competing this year
They barely have a shot at avoiding embarrassment
but does this team have some intangibles that will help fans look past the corrupt ownership and tune in to watch and listen to games? Can they activate any sector of the core die-hard fans in these unprecedented times?
Can you imagine a swell of hustlers, overachievers, that captivate the minds of disgruntled older fans and younger impressionable fans alike? Can there be something like the 1997 Freak show brewing? The Freak show was a team that surprised us, after starting to come to terms with the fact that Bonds, Bonilla, Drabek, Van Slyke were not walking through those mid 90's era Bucs clubhouse doors. We saw season win totals of 75, 53, 58. In 97 that mix of young talent and ballers gave us a ride and gave us a tiny oasis of hope in an otherwise desolate few decades as Pirate fans.
I haven't even really allowed myself to look at this year's team. Outside noise has also drowned out the attention I would normally give to investing deep into hope of the improbable.
But 2021 seems like a good why-not year. So do you see a potential for a group of players being assembled here, that may not be destined for a pennant, but can win us over with their style of play, cohesiveness, and passion? Can we see some winds of change blow through the franchise from the clubhouse up that starts something big?
Just give us a team to fall into LIKE with, in 2021 Pittsburgh, maybe it will grow into Love.
what parts of this 2021 bucco team do you think you can start to like in 2021 that might grow into love?
I think I’m going to have fun with this team. Most of these guys are young and getting a shot, they will be playing their rear ends off. I’d rather watch this team than last years’ knowing that anybody that had value would soon be traded.
Plus, I’m beginning to think this team might win more than we expect. Which will be both fun but also a total waste of a potential #1 draft pick in 2022.
I'm intrigued to see how the fanbase reacts to the product this year. Many on this board will remember the buzz around a "walk-out" that occurred during a nationals game in the past. Borne from disgust with ownership that appeared to not even be trying put a competitive team on the field. Well if some fans walked out of that game after the 3rd inning and spent that fan energy in creating a baby with your partner.... That baby is now a teenager. The walk-out was in 2007. We had our lightning in a bottle 3 year period, thanks to Cutch and the gang. But as fans, we are back where we started from in a no man's land. No hope for winning now, and no clear blueprint evident for the future year.
Eternal Optimism springing and ringing out in a very unique post-winter thaw. In a year where we aren't just digging out from a tough winter, but on the precipice of getting back to sports being played normally, with standard attendance.
The Pirates' new brass has done what they had to do in order to save the ownership some $ in tough times and to adhere to the small ball rebuild model.... stripped down to the bare minimum
They have no stars
They have little chance of competing this year
They barely have a shot at avoiding embarrassment
but does this team have some intangibles that will help fans look past the corrupt ownership and tune in to watch and listen to games? Can they activate any sector of the core die-hard fans in these unprecedented times?
Can you imagine a swell of hustlers, overachievers, that captivate the minds of disgruntled older fans and younger impressionable fans alike? Can there be something like the 1997 Freak show brewing? The Freak show was a team that surprised us, after starting to come to terms with the fact that Bonds, Bonilla, Drabek, Van Slyke were not walking through those mid 90's era Bucs clubhouse doors. We saw season win totals of 75, 53, 58. In 97 that mix of young talent and ballers gave us a ride and gave us a tiny oasis of hope in an otherwise desolate few decades as Pirate fans.
I haven't even really allowed myself to look at this year's team. Outside noise has also drowned out the attention I would normally give to investing deep into hope of the improbable.
But 2021 seems like a good why-not year. So do you see a potential for a group of players being assembled here, that may not be destined for a pennant, but can win us over with their style of play, cohesiveness, and passion? Can we see some winds of change blow through the franchise from the clubhouse up that starts something big?
Just give us a team to fall into LIKE with, in 2021 Pittsburgh, maybe it will grow into Love.
what parts of this 2021 bucco team do you think you can start to like in 2021 that might grow into love?
I think I’m going to have fun with this team. Most of these guys are young and getting a shot, they will be playing their rear ends off. I’d rather watch this team than last years’ knowing that anybody that had value would soon be traded.
Plus, I’m beginning to think this team might win more than we expect. Which will be both fun but also a total waste of a potential #1 draft pick in 2022.