5E7C6B7478774D766E776A717069190 wrote: Let’s not forget that Glasnow was wild and couldn’t throw strikes. He was also a big part of the problem. The responsibility for success rests mainly on him. He was a strikeout machine in the minors. But when he came up, he became “wild thing”. If he didn’t like what Searage and Hurdle were telling him, then he should have pitched the way that he was successful with. Being the top pitching prospect, what where they going to do, cut him? I don’t think so.
The whole thing was mishandled from the get go. They completely destroyed his convidence, I wrote about it at the time. The coaching staff was totally AWOL. After his failure it was obvious he had lost his confidence and was getting no support from the coaching staff. He was never going to succeed with this coaching staff and I was concerned he might never pitch well because they were destroying his psyche. Getting away from this coaching staff was the only way he was going to become one of the top pitchers in all of baseball which thankfully he has achieved, it's just ashamed we waited so long before deciding the obvious that CH and NH were incompetent and should have been replaced a least 2 years before it happened.
The Departed
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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Bobster21
The Departed
51494B4C4C5B4A4D505147220 wrote: Let’s not forget that Glasnow was wild and couldn’t throw strikes. He was also a big part of the problem. The responsibility for success rests mainly on him. He was a strikeout machine in the minors. But when he came up, he became “wild thing”. If he didn’t like what Searage and Hurdle were telling him, then he should have pitched the way that he was successful with. Being the top pitching prospect, what where they going to do, cut him? I don’t think so.
The whole thing was mishandled from the get go. They completely destroyed his convidence, I wrote about it at the time. The coaching staff was totally AWOL. After his failure it was obvious he had lost his confidence and was getting no support from the coaching staff. He was never going to succeed with this coaching staff and I was concerned he might never pitch well because they were destroying his psyche. Getting away from this coaching staff was the only way he was going to become one of the top pitchers in all of baseball which thankfully he has achieved, it's just ashamed we waited so long before deciding the obvious that CH and NH were incompetent and should have been replaced a least 2 years before it happened.
I totally agree with Skinny. Glasnow had a severe confidence problem because all he experienced at the big league level was failure. And a rookie just barely making the team can't tell his pitching coach and manager that he refuses their instruction and is going to do something completely different. This is on Searage for not having Glasnow stray from the team's one size fits all pitching philosophy when it clearly didn't work for him. As German Township noted, Glasnow couldn't throw strikes. He was awful. Even when he threw strikes, he was getting hammered. But now it appears that's because of where he was told to be locating his pitches. That resulted in a lack of confidence that he could get MLB hitters out and made him reluctant to throw strikes. So he became a pitcher who was usually far enough from the strike zone to prevent hits (but resulted in walks instead), was always behind in the count and when he threw strikes, they weren't the pitches up in the zone that could get hitters out. Last year I watched him pitch against the Orioles and he was filthy. Always ahead of the hitters with strikes up in the zone and then getting them to chase low and away stuff because the hitters were behind in the count. Or whiffing them on pitches at the top of the zone. It was 180 degrees different from how he pitched for the Pirates.
The whole thing was mishandled from the get go. They completely destroyed his convidence, I wrote about it at the time. The coaching staff was totally AWOL. After his failure it was obvious he had lost his confidence and was getting no support from the coaching staff. He was never going to succeed with this coaching staff and I was concerned he might never pitch well because they were destroying his psyche. Getting away from this coaching staff was the only way he was going to become one of the top pitchers in all of baseball which thankfully he has achieved, it's just ashamed we waited so long before deciding the obvious that CH and NH were incompetent and should have been replaced a least 2 years before it happened.
I totally agree with Skinny. Glasnow had a severe confidence problem because all he experienced at the big league level was failure. And a rookie just barely making the team can't tell his pitching coach and manager that he refuses their instruction and is going to do something completely different. This is on Searage for not having Glasnow stray from the team's one size fits all pitching philosophy when it clearly didn't work for him. As German Township noted, Glasnow couldn't throw strikes. He was awful. Even when he threw strikes, he was getting hammered. But now it appears that's because of where he was told to be locating his pitches. That resulted in a lack of confidence that he could get MLB hitters out and made him reluctant to throw strikes. So he became a pitcher who was usually far enough from the strike zone to prevent hits (but resulted in walks instead), was always behind in the count and when he threw strikes, they weren't the pitches up in the zone that could get hitters out. Last year I watched him pitch against the Orioles and he was filthy. Always ahead of the hitters with strikes up in the zone and then getting them to chase low and away stuff because the hitters were behind in the count. Or whiffing them on pitches at the top of the zone. It was 180 degrees different from how he pitched for the Pirates.
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skinnyhorse
- Posts: 926
- Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:19 am
The Departed
7D505D4C4B5A4D0D0E3F0 wrote: Let’s not forget that Glasnow was wild and couldn’t throw strikes. He was also a big part of the problem. The responsibility for success rests mainly on him. He was a strikeout machine in the minors. But when he came up, he became “wild thing”. If he didn’t like what Searage and Hurdle were telling him, then he should have pitched the way that he was successful with. Being the top pitching prospect, what where they going to do, cut him? I don’t think so.
The whole thing was mishandled from the get go. They completely destroyed his convidence, I wrote about it at the time. The coaching staff was totally AWOL. After his failure it was obvious he had lost his confidence and was getting no support from the coaching staff. He was never going to succeed with this coaching staff and I was concerned he might never pitch well because they were destroying his psyche. Getting away from this coaching staff was the only way he was going to become one of the top pitchers in all of baseball which thankfully he has achieved, it's just ashamed we waited so long before deciding the obvious that CH and NH were incompetent and should have been replaced a least 2 years before it happened.
I totally agree with Skinny. Glasnow had a severe confidence problem because all he experienced at the big league level was failure. And a rookie just barely making the team can't tell his pitching coach and manager that he refuses their instruction and is going to do something completely different. This is on Searage for not having Glasnow stray from the team's one size fits all pitching philosophy when it clearly didn't work for him. As German Township noted, Glasnow couldn't throw strikes. He was awful. Even when he threw strikes, he was getting hammered. But now it appears that's because of where he was told to be locating his pitches. That resulted in a lack of confidence that he could get MLB hitters out and made him reluctant to throw strikes. So he became a pitcher who was usually far enough from the strike zone to prevent hits (but resulted in walks instead), was always behind in the count and when he threw strikes, they weren't the pitches up in the zone that could get hitters out. Last year I watched him pitch against the Orioles and he was filthy. Always ahead of the hitters with strikes up in the zone and then getting them to chase low and away stuff because the hitters were behind in the count. Or whiffing them on pitches at the top of the zone. It was 180 degrees different from how he pitched for the Pirates.
Does it seem familiar with CH 9th inning and save rules met no matter how well your pitching got to bring in the closer, I could site other examples if I thought about it. The guy became a disaster as the years went by and no one in charge seemed to notice it and gave the guy a 3 year extension. How dumb was that.
The whole thing was mishandled from the get go. They completely destroyed his convidence, I wrote about it at the time. The coaching staff was totally AWOL. After his failure it was obvious he had lost his confidence and was getting no support from the coaching staff. He was never going to succeed with this coaching staff and I was concerned he might never pitch well because they were destroying his psyche. Getting away from this coaching staff was the only way he was going to become one of the top pitchers in all of baseball which thankfully he has achieved, it's just ashamed we waited so long before deciding the obvious that CH and NH were incompetent and should have been replaced a least 2 years before it happened.
I totally agree with Skinny. Glasnow had a severe confidence problem because all he experienced at the big league level was failure. And a rookie just barely making the team can't tell his pitching coach and manager that he refuses their instruction and is going to do something completely different. This is on Searage for not having Glasnow stray from the team's one size fits all pitching philosophy when it clearly didn't work for him. As German Township noted, Glasnow couldn't throw strikes. He was awful. Even when he threw strikes, he was getting hammered. But now it appears that's because of where he was told to be locating his pitches. That resulted in a lack of confidence that he could get MLB hitters out and made him reluctant to throw strikes. So he became a pitcher who was usually far enough from the strike zone to prevent hits (but resulted in walks instead), was always behind in the count and when he threw strikes, they weren't the pitches up in the zone that could get hitters out. Last year I watched him pitch against the Orioles and he was filthy. Always ahead of the hitters with strikes up in the zone and then getting them to chase low and away stuff because the hitters were behind in the count. Or whiffing them on pitches at the top of the zone. It was 180 degrees different from how he pitched for the Pirates.
Does it seem familiar with CH 9th inning and save rules met no matter how well your pitching got to bring in the closer, I could site other examples if I thought about it. The guy became a disaster as the years went by and no one in charge seemed to notice it and gave the guy a 3 year extension. How dumb was that.
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Bobster21
The Departed
544C4E49495E4F48555442270 wrote: Let’s not forget that Glasnow was wild and couldn’t throw strikes. He was also a big part of the problem. The responsibility for success rests mainly on him. He was a strikeout machine in the minors. But when he came up, he became “wild thing”. If he didn’t like what Searage and Hurdle were telling him, then he should have pitched the way that he was successful with. Being the top pitching prospect, what where they going to do, cut him? I don’t think so.
The whole thing was mishandled from the get go. They completely destroyed his convidence, I wrote about it at the time. The coaching staff was totally AWOL. After his failure it was obvious he had lost his confidence and was getting no support from the coaching staff. He was never going to succeed with this coaching staff and I was concerned he might never pitch well because they were destroying his psyche. Getting away from this coaching staff was the only way he was going to become one of the top pitchers in all of baseball which thankfully he has achieved, it's just ashamed we waited so long before deciding the obvious that CH and NH were incompetent and should have been replaced a least 2 years before it happened.
I totally agree with Skinny. Glasnow had a severe confidence problem because all he experienced at the big league level was failure. And a rookie just barely making the team can't tell his pitching coach and manager that he refuses their instruction and is going to do something completely different. This is on Searage for not having Glasnow stray from the team's one size fits all pitching philosophy when it clearly didn't work for him. As German Township noted, Glasnow couldn't throw strikes. He was awful. Even when he threw strikes, he was getting hammered. But now it appears that's because of where he was told to be locating his pitches. That resulted in a lack of confidence that he could get MLB hitters out and made him reluctant to throw strikes. So he became a pitcher who was usually far enough from the strike zone to prevent hits (but resulted in walks instead), was always behind in the count and when he threw strikes, they weren't the pitches up in the zone that could get hitters out. Last year I watched him pitch against the Orioles and he was filthy. Always ahead of the hitters with strikes up in the zone and then getting them to chase low and away stuff because the hitters were behind in the count. Or whiffing them on pitches at the top of the zone. It was 180 degrees different from how he pitched for the Pirates.
Does it seem familiar with CH 9th inning and save rules met no matter how well your pitching got to bring in the closer, I could site other examples if I thought about it. The guy became a disaster as the years went by and no one in charge seemed to notice it and gave the guy a 3 year extension. How dumb was that.
Giving CH the extension at that point seemed insane. That was the same time many fans were speculating he would be fired. Of course we always hear that we as fans don't know as much as the professionals so we have to be wrong. And then the professionals go and fire the guy for the reasons we fans had been complaining about. Ditto for NH.
My complaint with CH was that he was married to the formulas. Of course, that may have been at the direction of NH, we don't know. I realize that nearly all managers follow those formulas, especially for how closers are used. But I always felt the Pirates needed a manager who would think outside the box. They don't amass more talent than the opposition so they need to maximize what they've got. If a pitcher is going strong, don't take him out just because the formula says it's another pitcher's inning to pitch. Maybe today is the day that guy just doesn't have it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If a hitter is red hot, don't bench him just because an NBA team uses a series of scheduled days off and you want to show everyone what an innovative baseball team you are. It's not exactly as if baseball and basketball have similar physical requirements. And the Pirates didn't exactly dominate in the later months due to all that rest. IMHO, CH was a typical, run of the mill, average MLB manager. If he had a more talented roster, he could get away with the robotic moves and win. But with the Pirates' roster, he needed to be thinking "How can I win this game today? What are the best moves in this particular game regardless of formulas?" The Pirates needed that. CH either wouldn't or couldn't (per NH?) give that to them. And there were just way too many games that appeared sacrificed from the start just to enhance their chances in some future game. That's an absurd concept but something the Pirates embraced. You can only win the game you're playing. Tanking it with an odd lineup or pitching choice because you think you can win tomorrow's game is senseless.
The whole thing was mishandled from the get go. They completely destroyed his convidence, I wrote about it at the time. The coaching staff was totally AWOL. After his failure it was obvious he had lost his confidence and was getting no support from the coaching staff. He was never going to succeed with this coaching staff and I was concerned he might never pitch well because they were destroying his psyche. Getting away from this coaching staff was the only way he was going to become one of the top pitchers in all of baseball which thankfully he has achieved, it's just ashamed we waited so long before deciding the obvious that CH and NH were incompetent and should have been replaced a least 2 years before it happened.
I totally agree with Skinny. Glasnow had a severe confidence problem because all he experienced at the big league level was failure. And a rookie just barely making the team can't tell his pitching coach and manager that he refuses their instruction and is going to do something completely different. This is on Searage for not having Glasnow stray from the team's one size fits all pitching philosophy when it clearly didn't work for him. As German Township noted, Glasnow couldn't throw strikes. He was awful. Even when he threw strikes, he was getting hammered. But now it appears that's because of where he was told to be locating his pitches. That resulted in a lack of confidence that he could get MLB hitters out and made him reluctant to throw strikes. So he became a pitcher who was usually far enough from the strike zone to prevent hits (but resulted in walks instead), was always behind in the count and when he threw strikes, they weren't the pitches up in the zone that could get hitters out. Last year I watched him pitch against the Orioles and he was filthy. Always ahead of the hitters with strikes up in the zone and then getting them to chase low and away stuff because the hitters were behind in the count. Or whiffing them on pitches at the top of the zone. It was 180 degrees different from how he pitched for the Pirates.
Does it seem familiar with CH 9th inning and save rules met no matter how well your pitching got to bring in the closer, I could site other examples if I thought about it. The guy became a disaster as the years went by and no one in charge seemed to notice it and gave the guy a 3 year extension. How dumb was that.
Giving CH the extension at that point seemed insane. That was the same time many fans were speculating he would be fired. Of course we always hear that we as fans don't know as much as the professionals so we have to be wrong. And then the professionals go and fire the guy for the reasons we fans had been complaining about. Ditto for NH.
My complaint with CH was that he was married to the formulas. Of course, that may have been at the direction of NH, we don't know. I realize that nearly all managers follow those formulas, especially for how closers are used. But I always felt the Pirates needed a manager who would think outside the box. They don't amass more talent than the opposition so they need to maximize what they've got. If a pitcher is going strong, don't take him out just because the formula says it's another pitcher's inning to pitch. Maybe today is the day that guy just doesn't have it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If a hitter is red hot, don't bench him just because an NBA team uses a series of scheduled days off and you want to show everyone what an innovative baseball team you are. It's not exactly as if baseball and basketball have similar physical requirements. And the Pirates didn't exactly dominate in the later months due to all that rest. IMHO, CH was a typical, run of the mill, average MLB manager. If he had a more talented roster, he could get away with the robotic moves and win. But with the Pirates' roster, he needed to be thinking "How can I win this game today? What are the best moves in this particular game regardless of formulas?" The Pirates needed that. CH either wouldn't or couldn't (per NH?) give that to them. And there were just way too many games that appeared sacrificed from the start just to enhance their chances in some future game. That's an absurd concept but something the Pirates embraced. You can only win the game you're playing. Tanking it with an odd lineup or pitching choice because you think you can win tomorrow's game is senseless.
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Bobster21
The Departed
Steve Pearce retired. Another example of the NH regime either not recognizing talent or not being able to develop it. He put up gaudy numbers in the minors but the Pirates never seemed to take him seriously. They earmarked him as an occasional bat off the bench and constantly shuttled him back and forth between Pittsburgh and AAA. He never had more than 186 PAs as a Pirate or played in more than 60 games in a season. They finally gave up on him when they settled on Lyle Overbay at 1B. Other teams found him far more useful as he exceeded 300 PAs 4 times. The Orioles found that the more he played the better he hit. He had nearly 400 PAs with the 2014 Orioles for whom he hit hit .293 with 21 HRs. The Orioles even used him at 2B occasionally just to get his bat in the lineup. He was the World Series MVP for Boston in 2018.
https://triblive.com/sports/former-pira ... e-retires/
https://triblive.com/sports/former-pira ... e-retires/
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ArnoldRothstein
The Departed
I remember being happy for Pearce years ago when, after being sold or DFA'd so many times, he was actually traded for a minor league catcher. I think when NH came in, he had something of a prejudice in favor of athletic guys, and Pearce didn't fit the model very well.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3630
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
The Departed
Rinku Singh, ex-Pirates pitcher and 'Million Dollar Arm' star, trades baseball for WWE dreams
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DemDog
The Departed
7E4C40405466454C41444B4C2D0 wrote: Rinku Singh, ex-Pirates pitcher and 'Million Dollar Arm' star, trades baseball for WWE dreams
Which Pirate Would Be the Best Wrestler? Singh Knows!
More Stories From the Trib
This one features a video.
Which Pirate Would Be the Best Wrestler? Singh Knows!
More Stories From the Trib
This one features a video.
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Bobster21
The Departed
43626A436860070 wrote: Rinku Singh, ex-Pirates pitcher and 'Million Dollar Arm' star, trades baseball for WWE dreams
Which Pirate Would Be the Best Wrestler? Singh Knows!
More Stories From the Trib
This one features a video.
In the Trib article about Singh wrestling, the caption under the photo incorrectly states that Singh and his former pitching partner Dinesh Patel are now the wrestling tag team pictured. Of course that's not true. The Trib's crack team of proof readers at work. The article identifies his wrestling partner as Saurav Gurjar.
https://triblive.com/sports/former-pira ... wrestling/
Which Pirate Would Be the Best Wrestler? Singh Knows!
More Stories From the Trib
This one features a video.
In the Trib article about Singh wrestling, the caption under the photo incorrectly states that Singh and his former pitching partner Dinesh Patel are now the wrestling tag team pictured. Of course that's not true. The Trib's crack team of proof readers at work. The article identifies his wrestling partner as Saurav Gurjar.
https://triblive.com/sports/former-pira ... wrestling/
The Departed
South Korean league starts next week. This article has multiple quotes from Nick Kingham.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/288 ... -from-home
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/288 ... -from-home