6A5854544072515855505F58390 wrote: I agree with this. I think NH was in a damned if you do, damned if you don't position. That said, I still believe in being a man or woman of your word, which is part of being a person of integrity. And, NH said, they are going to do all they could to sign Ohtani. "All they could" includes earmarking $20 million for his posting fee.
Look...I don't care if they spend the money or not. I've been vocal since about August that it's time to blow it up. Trade everybody. Go the Astros route. If they have a payroll of $30 million next year, I won't care. Just don't go half way...either all in, or all out. All in means upgrading third base at a minimum. Probably catcher, maybe short, the bullpen. Apparently, they have $20 million with which to do that. But, if they aren't all in, meaning they aren't willing to pay that money to upgrade, then start the fire sale, because as it sits now, this is at best a 75 win team.
Yeah, being in between like we are is the worst place to be. If there's no new third baseman (which still might not be enough, who knows), no point in keeping stuff together.
$22.5M. That's the test. If payroll doesn't increase by that amount then we can know that Neal tossed the media and fans a $22.5M lie.
Shohei Ohtani
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3642
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Shohei Ohtani
I don't care how much the guy costs.
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rucker59@gmail.com
Shohei Ohtani
4C7E72726654777E7376797E1F0 wrote: I don't care how much the guy costs.
I'm saying it's real easy to talk a good game. If Neal was serious then that means there's an extra $22.5M floating around. That would at least let them make some serious upgrades. If that happens, I'm all in.
If he dinks and dunks with Ryan Vogelsong's of MLB, spends $5M and rolls out the same team basically, then he was doing nothing but talk all along.
spend the $22.5M or blow it up.
This is not simply discontent of a discontent fan. Neal has set this bar by his comments. So spend the money. Or blow it up.
I'm saying it's real easy to talk a good game. If Neal was serious then that means there's an extra $22.5M floating around. That would at least let them make some serious upgrades. If that happens, I'm all in.
If he dinks and dunks with Ryan Vogelsong's of MLB, spends $5M and rolls out the same team basically, then he was doing nothing but talk all along.
spend the $22.5M or blow it up.
This is not simply discontent of a discontent fan. Neal has set this bar by his comments. So spend the money. Or blow it up.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Shohei Ohtani
2720363E3027606C153238343C397B363A38550 wrote: I agree with this. I think NH was in a damned if you do, damned if you don't position. That said, I still believe in being a man or woman of your word, which is part of being a person of integrity. And, NH said, they are going to do all they could to sign Ohtani. "All they could" includes earmarking $20 million for his posting fee.
Look...I don't care if they spend the money or not. I've been vocal since about August that it's time to blow it up. Trade everybody. Go the Astros route. If they have a payroll of $30 million next year, I won't care. Just don't go half way...either all in, or all out. All in means upgrading third base at a minimum. Probably catcher, maybe short, the bullpen. Apparently, they have $20 million with which to do that. But, if they aren't all in, meaning they aren't willing to pay that money to upgrade, then start the fire sale, because as it sits now, this is at best a 75 win team.
Yeah, being in between like we are is the worst place to be. If there's no new third baseman (which still might not be enough, who knows), no point in keeping stuff together.
$22.5M. That's the test. If payroll doesn't increase by that amount then we can know that Neal tossed the media and fans a $22.5M lie.
Why?
So, you just want them to spend money just to spend money? Four Daniel Hudsons would make you happy?
Who do you think should be replaced? At this point, seven positions are filled (Mercer, Harrison, Bell, Cervelli, Marte, McCutchen, Polanco), three bench spots are taken (Freese, Rodriguez, Diaz) and the rotation is set (Cole, Nova, Taillon, Kuhl, Williams).
Look...I don't care if they spend the money or not. I've been vocal since about August that it's time to blow it up. Trade everybody. Go the Astros route. If they have a payroll of $30 million next year, I won't care. Just don't go half way...either all in, or all out. All in means upgrading third base at a minimum. Probably catcher, maybe short, the bullpen. Apparently, they have $20 million with which to do that. But, if they aren't all in, meaning they aren't willing to pay that money to upgrade, then start the fire sale, because as it sits now, this is at best a 75 win team.
Yeah, being in between like we are is the worst place to be. If there's no new third baseman (which still might not be enough, who knows), no point in keeping stuff together.
$22.5M. That's the test. If payroll doesn't increase by that amount then we can know that Neal tossed the media and fans a $22.5M lie.
Why?
So, you just want them to spend money just to spend money? Four Daniel Hudsons would make you happy?
Who do you think should be replaced? At this point, seven positions are filled (Mercer, Harrison, Bell, Cervelli, Marte, McCutchen, Polanco), three bench spots are taken (Freese, Rodriguez, Diaz) and the rotation is set (Cole, Nova, Taillon, Kuhl, Williams).
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3642
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Shohei Ohtani
6463757D7364232F56717B777F7A3875797B160 wrote: I don't care how much the guy costs.
I'm saying it's real easy to talk a good game. If Neal was serious then that means there's an extra $22.5M floating around. That would at least let them make some serious upgrades. If that happens, I'm all in.
If he dinks and dunks with Ryan Vogelsong's of MLB, spends $5M and rolls out the same team basically, then he was doing nothing but talk all along.
spend the $22.5M or blow it up.
This is not simply discontent of a discontent fan. Neal has set this bar by his comments. So spend the money. Or blow it up.
Yes and no. I do think that every team (or corporation, or family, or individual) has an emergency fund held back that they absolutely won't touch unless something comes up. But I can't imagine that that would take them to that point. And I don't know that a good 3B will cost them 22MM anyhow.
I'm saying it's real easy to talk a good game. If Neal was serious then that means there's an extra $22.5M floating around. That would at least let them make some serious upgrades. If that happens, I'm all in.
If he dinks and dunks with Ryan Vogelsong's of MLB, spends $5M and rolls out the same team basically, then he was doing nothing but talk all along.
spend the $22.5M or blow it up.
This is not simply discontent of a discontent fan. Neal has set this bar by his comments. So spend the money. Or blow it up.
Yes and no. I do think that every team (or corporation, or family, or individual) has an emergency fund held back that they absolutely won't touch unless something comes up. But I can't imagine that that would take them to that point. And I don't know that a good 3B will cost them 22MM anyhow.
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rucker59@gmail.com
Shohei Ohtani
777C74787D7C672224536A727B7C7C3D707C130 wrote: I agree with this. I think NH was in a damned if you do, damned if you don't position. That said, I still believe in being a man or woman of your word, which is part of being a person of integrity. And, NH said, they are going to do all they could to sign Ohtani. "All they could" includes earmarking $20 million for his posting fee.
Look...I don't care if they spend the money or not. I've been vocal since about August that it's time to blow it up. Trade everybody. Go the Astros route. If they have a payroll of $30 million next year, I won't care. Just don't go half way...either all in, or all out. All in means upgrading third base at a minimum. Probably catcher, maybe short, the bullpen. Apparently, they have $20 million with which to do that. But, if they aren't all in, meaning they aren't willing to pay that money to upgrade, then start the fire sale, because as it sits now, this is at best a 75 win team.
Yeah, being in between like we are is the worst place to be. If there's no new third baseman (which still might not be enough, who knows), no point in keeping stuff together.
$22.5M. That's the test. If payroll doesn't increase by that amount then we can know that Neal tossed the media and fans a $22.5M lie.
Why?
So, you just want them to spend money just to spend money? Four Daniel Hudsons would make you happy?
Who do you think should be replaced? At this point, seven positions are filled (Mercer, Harrison, Bell, Cervelli, Marte, McCutchen, Polanco), three bench spots are taken (Freese, Rodriguez, Diaz) and the rotation is set (Cole, Nova, Taillon, Kuhl, Williams).
Yeah, that's exactly what I said. Thanks for your very valuable input.
Look...I don't care if they spend the money or not. I've been vocal since about August that it's time to blow it up. Trade everybody. Go the Astros route. If they have a payroll of $30 million next year, I won't care. Just don't go half way...either all in, or all out. All in means upgrading third base at a minimum. Probably catcher, maybe short, the bullpen. Apparently, they have $20 million with which to do that. But, if they aren't all in, meaning they aren't willing to pay that money to upgrade, then start the fire sale, because as it sits now, this is at best a 75 win team.
Yeah, being in between like we are is the worst place to be. If there's no new third baseman (which still might not be enough, who knows), no point in keeping stuff together.
$22.5M. That's the test. If payroll doesn't increase by that amount then we can know that Neal tossed the media and fans a $22.5M lie.
Why?
So, you just want them to spend money just to spend money? Four Daniel Hudsons would make you happy?
Who do you think should be replaced? At this point, seven positions are filled (Mercer, Harrison, Bell, Cervelli, Marte, McCutchen, Polanco), three bench spots are taken (Freese, Rodriguez, Diaz) and the rotation is set (Cole, Nova, Taillon, Kuhl, Williams).
Yeah, that's exactly what I said. Thanks for your very valuable input.
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rucker59@gmail.com
Shohei Ohtani
14262A2A3E0C2F262B2E2126470 wrote: I don't care how much the guy costs.
I'm saying it's real easy to talk a good game. If Neal was serious then that means there's an extra $22.5M floating around. That would at least let them make some serious upgrades. If that happens, I'm all in.
If he dinks and dunks with Ryan Vogelsong's of MLB, spends $5M and rolls out the same team basically, then he was doing nothing but talk all along.
spend the $22.5M or blow it up.
This is not simply discontent of a discontent fan. Neal has set this bar by his comments. So spend the money. Or blow it up.
Yes and no. I do think that every team (or corporation, or family, or individual) has an emergency fund held back that they absolutely won't touch unless something comes up. But I can't imagine that that would take them to that point. And I don't know that a good 3B will cost them 22MM anyhow.
Fair point, but if that's the case, all the more reason to say nothing. There is no way he can throw his comments out there and not raise expectations....or be accused of blowing smoke.
EDIT
I should add - If they are serious about contending, they need a 3rd base, a bigger bat in the outfield and a front line pitcher. They can spend $22M in a heart beat and still be looking to up grade.
But I would be congratulating the organization for making a serious move.
I'm saying it's real easy to talk a good game. If Neal was serious then that means there's an extra $22.5M floating around. That would at least let them make some serious upgrades. If that happens, I'm all in.
If he dinks and dunks with Ryan Vogelsong's of MLB, spends $5M and rolls out the same team basically, then he was doing nothing but talk all along.
spend the $22.5M or blow it up.
This is not simply discontent of a discontent fan. Neal has set this bar by his comments. So spend the money. Or blow it up.
Yes and no. I do think that every team (or corporation, or family, or individual) has an emergency fund held back that they absolutely won't touch unless something comes up. But I can't imagine that that would take them to that point. And I don't know that a good 3B will cost them 22MM anyhow.
Fair point, but if that's the case, all the more reason to say nothing. There is no way he can throw his comments out there and not raise expectations....or be accused of blowing smoke.
EDIT
I should add - If they are serious about contending, they need a 3rd base, a bigger bat in the outfield and a front line pitcher. They can spend $22M in a heart beat and still be looking to up grade.
But I would be congratulating the organization for making a serious move.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Shohei Ohtani
There are times I don't have $20 for that stuffed chicken breast, but I do have $30 for that prime rib.
Ohtani is a value, a special talent. You are comparing him to every other player. If Stanton came along and he wanted to play for the Pirates for $20 million a year, they might find the money and get it together. That doesn't mean they have $20 million for everyone.
And you're welcome. Glad I can help.
Ohtani is a value, a special talent. You are comparing him to every other player. If Stanton came along and he wanted to play for the Pirates for $20 million a year, they might find the money and get it together. That doesn't mean they have $20 million for everyone.
And you're welcome. Glad I can help.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3642
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Shohei Ohtani
292E38303E296E621B3C363A3237753834365B0 wrote: I don't care how much the guy costs.
I'm saying it's real easy to talk a good game. If Neal was serious then that means there's an extra $22.5M floating around. That would at least let them make some serious upgrades. If that happens, I'm all in.
If he dinks and dunks with Ryan Vogelsong's of MLB, spends $5M and rolls out the same team basically, then he was doing nothing but talk all along.
spend the $22.5M or blow it up.
This is not simply discontent of a discontent fan. Neal has set this bar by his comments. So spend the money. Or blow it up.
Yes and no. I do think that every team (or corporation, or family, or individual) has an emergency fund held back that they absolutely won't touch unless something comes up. But I can't imagine that that would take them to that point. And I don't know that a good 3B will cost them 22MM anyhow.
Fair point, but if that's the case, all the more reason to say nothing. There is no way he can throw his comments out there and not raise expectations....or be accused of blowing smoke.
EDIT
I should add - If they are serious about contending, they need a 3rd base, a bigger bat in the outfield and a front line pitcher. They can spend $22M in a heart beat and still be looking to up grade.
But I would be congratulating the organization for making a serious move.
Yeah, I said early on that we need a real 3B, a fourth OF and a starter. I wouldn't even say front-liner, but better. Third is the must though as I could see cases where we could be better with internal improvement at the other spots than anything we could get on the market.
(It wouldn't even be that costly to just get a guy that can catch a pop fly . . . how can you not address that need all season??? But I digress.)
It could indeed cost that much for all of those thigns or it could take some shuffling. Whichever.
I'm saying it's real easy to talk a good game. If Neal was serious then that means there's an extra $22.5M floating around. That would at least let them make some serious upgrades. If that happens, I'm all in.
If he dinks and dunks with Ryan Vogelsong's of MLB, spends $5M and rolls out the same team basically, then he was doing nothing but talk all along.
spend the $22.5M or blow it up.
This is not simply discontent of a discontent fan. Neal has set this bar by his comments. So spend the money. Or blow it up.
Yes and no. I do think that every team (or corporation, or family, or individual) has an emergency fund held back that they absolutely won't touch unless something comes up. But I can't imagine that that would take them to that point. And I don't know that a good 3B will cost them 22MM anyhow.
Fair point, but if that's the case, all the more reason to say nothing. There is no way he can throw his comments out there and not raise expectations....or be accused of blowing smoke.
EDIT
I should add - If they are serious about contending, they need a 3rd base, a bigger bat in the outfield and a front line pitcher. They can spend $22M in a heart beat and still be looking to up grade.
But I would be congratulating the organization for making a serious move.
Yeah, I said early on that we need a real 3B, a fourth OF and a starter. I wouldn't even say front-liner, but better. Third is the must though as I could see cases where we could be better with internal improvement at the other spots than anything we could get on the market.
(It wouldn't even be that costly to just get a guy that can catch a pop fly . . . how can you not address that need all season??? But I digress.)
It could indeed cost that much for all of those thigns or it could take some shuffling. Whichever.
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Bobster21
Shohei Ohtani
We all know the Pirates had no realistic shot at landing Ohtani. But let's say for the sake of argument they got him due to NH's pitch. How does that automatically mean they had an extra 20 million to spend on payroll? How do we know they wouldn't have compensated by reducing payroll? For example, they could trade Cutch (14.5 mil) and Harrison (10.2 mil) for prospects? They would have paid 2.3 mil to Ohtani, 20 mil to his team and saved a net of 2.4 mil. This notion that a pitch for Ohtani means they had an extra 20 mil to spend is pure fantasy. I'm as critical of Pirates' mgt as anyone but there's no way to interpret a failure to increase payroll by 20 million as proof of NH lying about wanting Ohtani.