As fans, why do yinz care about attendance?
Whether it was higher or lower than last year, so?
Lowest since 1996? meaning 1995 was lower. So?
Throughout this thread, some of yinz looked to have a goal of 1.5 million. That didn't happen. What would have changed if it did break 1.5 mil?
What if attendance ended up 2 mil? What if it was only 1 mil? How would things change, how would the situation be different today if the numbers were different?
And why do fans give a flip about the number?
attendance
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
attendance
I'm not a yinzer, but I'll give it a shot. I suspect people care on several fronts - it appears as a public referendum on NH's efforts (and perhaps more so at Nutting's financial handling) at directing the team, and in particular, his trades of Cole and McCutchen. There we root for a lower number, figuring if it hits Nutting in the pocketbook it has to be good. On the other hand, we care in that while Nutting may not increase the budget in any meaningful way when attendance is good, he's very likely to decrease it in a meaningful way if attendance is bad. There, of course, we root for better attendance.
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rucker59@gmail.com
attendance
1A3F283B1F2B392B2D2A37303B5E0 wrote: As fans, why do yinz care about attendance?
Whether it was higher or lower than last year, so?
Lowest since 1996? meaning 1995 was lower. So?
Throughout this thread, some of yinz looked to have a goal of 1.5 million. That didn't happen. What would have changed if it did break 1.5 mil?
What if attendance ended up 2 mil? What if it was only 1 mil? How would things change, how would the situation be different today if the numbers were different?
And why do fans give a flip about the number?
Well, just a few reasons:
There should be SOME (agreed, Nutting has mostly laughed his way to the bank) correlation (actually a significant correlation) between attendance and payroll.
It’s a heck of a lot more fun when the park is full.
The stubhub resale mkt, never forget the stubhub resale mkt....
I’m sure others can add to this list.
Whether it was higher or lower than last year, so?
Lowest since 1996? meaning 1995 was lower. So?
Throughout this thread, some of yinz looked to have a goal of 1.5 million. That didn't happen. What would have changed if it did break 1.5 mil?
What if attendance ended up 2 mil? What if it was only 1 mil? How would things change, how would the situation be different today if the numbers were different?
And why do fans give a flip about the number?
Well, just a few reasons:There should be SOME (agreed, Nutting has mostly laughed his way to the bank) correlation (actually a significant correlation) between attendance and payroll.
It’s a heck of a lot more fun when the park is full.
The stubhub resale mkt, never forget the stubhub resale mkt....
I’m sure others can add to this list.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3642
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
attendance
6760767E7067202C557278747C793B767A78150 wrote: As fans, why do yinz care about attendance?
Whether it was higher or lower than last year, so?
Lowest since 1996? meaning 1995 was lower. So?
Throughout this thread, some of yinz looked to have a goal of 1.5 million. That didn't happen. What would have changed if it did break 1.5 mil?
What if attendance ended up 2 mil? What if it was only 1 mil? How would things change, how would the situation be different today if the numbers were different?
And why do fans give a flip about the number?
Well, just a few reasons:
There should be SOME (agreed, Nutting has mostly laughed his way to the bank) correlation (actually a significant correlation) between attendance and payroll.
It’s a heck of a lot more fun when the park is full.
The stubhub resale mkt, never forget the stubhub resale mkt....
I’m sure others can add to this list.
Yeah, I want the stadium to be busy yet not so over-sold full that I can't sit where I want and get around.
Whether it was higher or lower than last year, so?
Lowest since 1996? meaning 1995 was lower. So?
Throughout this thread, some of yinz looked to have a goal of 1.5 million. That didn't happen. What would have changed if it did break 1.5 mil?
What if attendance ended up 2 mil? What if it was only 1 mil? How would things change, how would the situation be different today if the numbers were different?
And why do fans give a flip about the number?
Well, just a few reasons:There should be SOME (agreed, Nutting has mostly laughed his way to the bank) correlation (actually a significant correlation) between attendance and payroll.
It’s a heck of a lot more fun when the park is full.
The stubhub resale mkt, never forget the stubhub resale mkt....
I’m sure others can add to this list.
Yeah, I want the stadium to be busy yet not so over-sold full that I can't sit where I want and get around.
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fjk090852-7
- Posts: 3619
- Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:52 pm
attendance
Other than the first couple of games this season the Bucs attendance has been rather poor. Lately they are getting about 8,000 or 9,000 for each game. It is April and the normal excuses such as poor weather or kids are still in school will be made. There must also be many fans who have canceled full or partial season ticket plans since the Bucs did not upgrade the team after the 2015 season and the trades of Cutch and Cole after the 2017 season. The per game attendance will increase as we enter the summer, but they will not reach the 2 million per year attendance until they again put a winning team on the field.
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maher.timothy20@gm
attendance
They could have made some moves short of signing Machado which would have both made the team better and signaled to the fan base that they actually gave a shit.
Not signing a shortstop was a slap in the face, and Gonzales was/is clearly a disaster in the making. Maybe it will inadvertently work out with them being forced to call up Tucker, but that still doesn't excuse it.
They could easily and cheaply have added Adam Jones, Freddy Galvis and another starter for depth. Instead they did nothing.
Let's be real: Pittsburgh fans are not the most devoted. I've been listening to these excuses about lousy attendance for 40 years. Ben Roethlisberger could show up for a game of catch with JuJu at Heinz Field and the place would sell out. But Pirates fans aren't that way--they need some signal that it's time to start paying attention. And instead the front office did the opposite. They sat on their hands and hoped that everyone was still excited about the Archer trade.
Not signing a shortstop was a slap in the face, and Gonzales was/is clearly a disaster in the making. Maybe it will inadvertently work out with them being forced to call up Tucker, but that still doesn't excuse it.
They could easily and cheaply have added Adam Jones, Freddy Galvis and another starter for depth. Instead they did nothing.
Let's be real: Pittsburgh fans are not the most devoted. I've been listening to these excuses about lousy attendance for 40 years. Ben Roethlisberger could show up for a game of catch with JuJu at Heinz Field and the place would sell out. But Pirates fans aren't that way--they need some signal that it's time to start paying attention. And instead the front office did the opposite. They sat on their hands and hoped that everyone was still excited about the Archer trade.
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Bobster21
attendance
2A262F223569332E2A28332F3E757707202A470 wrote: They could have made some moves short of signing Machado which would have both made the team better and signaled to the fan base that they actually gave a shit.
Not signing a shortstop was a slap in the face, and Gonzales was/is clearly a disaster in the making. Maybe it will inadvertently work out with them being forced to call up Tucker, but that still doesn't excuse it.
They could easily and cheaply have added Adam Jones, Freddy Galvis and another starter for depth. Instead they did nothing.
Let's be real: Pittsburgh fans are not the most devoted. I've been listening to these excuses about lousy attendance for 40 years. Ben Roethlisberger could show up for a game of catch with JuJu at Heinz Field and the place would sell out. But Pirates fans aren't that way--they need some signal that it's time to start paying attention. And instead the front office did the opposite. They sat on their hands and hoped that everyone was still excited about the Archer trade.
When fans had an exciting, legit contender in 2015 they set a franchise attendance record. But now they're asked to show up for a team with good pitching, no power, possibly average at best hitting if injured players bounce back, and bad defense. The idea is that if everything goes right and other teams have bad years, they might have a chance at the 2nd WC spot. The marketing strategy seems to be to market individual players, giveaways, concerts and fireworks instead of trying to attract fans with a competitive team. However, they saw how great attendance was in 2015 when they compete and how bad it is when they don't. But I suspect Nutting's bean counters have assured him that he'll have a bigger profit with a low payroll and low attendance than spending more and drawing more fans.
Not signing a shortstop was a slap in the face, and Gonzales was/is clearly a disaster in the making. Maybe it will inadvertently work out with them being forced to call up Tucker, but that still doesn't excuse it.
They could easily and cheaply have added Adam Jones, Freddy Galvis and another starter for depth. Instead they did nothing.
Let's be real: Pittsburgh fans are not the most devoted. I've been listening to these excuses about lousy attendance for 40 years. Ben Roethlisberger could show up for a game of catch with JuJu at Heinz Field and the place would sell out. But Pirates fans aren't that way--they need some signal that it's time to start paying attention. And instead the front office did the opposite. They sat on their hands and hoped that everyone was still excited about the Archer trade.
When fans had an exciting, legit contender in 2015 they set a franchise attendance record. But now they're asked to show up for a team with good pitching, no power, possibly average at best hitting if injured players bounce back, and bad defense. The idea is that if everything goes right and other teams have bad years, they might have a chance at the 2nd WC spot. The marketing strategy seems to be to market individual players, giveaways, concerts and fireworks instead of trying to attract fans with a competitive team. However, they saw how great attendance was in 2015 when they compete and how bad it is when they don't. But I suspect Nutting's bean counters have assured him that he'll have a bigger profit with a low payroll and low attendance than spending more and drawing more fans.
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maher.timothy20@gm
attendance
Yeah, Bobster, but think about what it took to get to that 2015 attendance. Two years in a row of playoff teams, and another team that year winning 98 games. And even then that "record" attendance was middling for the league at large.
Whereas if the Steelers play in Atlanta or Arizona or Houston it'll be half Steeler fans.
The front office needed to make a big splashy move this offseason and they didn't. And that sucks for both PR reasons and baseball reasons.
Whereas if the Steelers play in Atlanta or Arizona or Houston it'll be half Steeler fans.
The front office needed to make a big splashy move this offseason and they didn't. And that sucks for both PR reasons and baseball reasons.
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Bobster21
attendance
0C000904134F15080C0E150918535121060C610 wrote: Yeah, Bobster, but think about what it took to get to that 2015 attendance. Two years in a row of playoff teams, and another team that year winning 98 games. And even then that "record" attendance was middling for the league at large.
Whereas if the Steelers play in Atlanta or Arizona or Houston it'll be half Steeler fans.
The front office needed to make a big splashy move this offseason and they didn't. And that sucks for both PR reasons and baseball reasons.
I agree with you. But while the Steelers have a history of success, the Pirates haven't been in a WS in 40 years and endured a 20 year losing streak thru 2012. They have deservedly lost the trust of their fan base. But Pirate fans just want to see a competitive team (not just one like last year that was theoretically in the 2nd WC hunt despite being under .500 as late as Sept 15.
Even the 72-90 team of 2011 drew 1.9 million. They were in 1st place as late as July 25 and fans were turning out to see them.
The 79-83 2012 Pirates held the 2nd WC seat as late as Aug 21 and 2 million fans showed up.
2013 ended the 20 years of losing and they drew 2.2 million.
2014 was another winning team and they drew 2.44 million.
The 98 win team of 2015 drew 2.49 million.
So fans weren't waiting for the 2015 season to show up. The highest attendance years in franchise history are 2015, 2001 (1st year of PNC Park), 2014 and 2013. And in 2015 they averaged 30,800 per game. PNC only holds 38,300. So they aren't going to be among MLB's biggest attendance figures. But the fans showed they would support the team if they had a reason to believe the team was legitimately competitive. Nutting & Co. can see the difference in attendance relative to the strength of the team. But they don't seem interested in strengthening the team. So I guess they are content with small crowds.
Whereas if the Steelers play in Atlanta or Arizona or Houston it'll be half Steeler fans.
The front office needed to make a big splashy move this offseason and they didn't. And that sucks for both PR reasons and baseball reasons.
I agree with you. But while the Steelers have a history of success, the Pirates haven't been in a WS in 40 years and endured a 20 year losing streak thru 2012. They have deservedly lost the trust of their fan base. But Pirate fans just want to see a competitive team (not just one like last year that was theoretically in the 2nd WC hunt despite being under .500 as late as Sept 15.
Even the 72-90 team of 2011 drew 1.9 million. They were in 1st place as late as July 25 and fans were turning out to see them.
The 79-83 2012 Pirates held the 2nd WC seat as late as Aug 21 and 2 million fans showed up.
2013 ended the 20 years of losing and they drew 2.2 million.
2014 was another winning team and they drew 2.44 million.
The 98 win team of 2015 drew 2.49 million.
So fans weren't waiting for the 2015 season to show up. The highest attendance years in franchise history are 2015, 2001 (1st year of PNC Park), 2014 and 2013. And in 2015 they averaged 30,800 per game. PNC only holds 38,300. So they aren't going to be among MLB's biggest attendance figures. But the fans showed they would support the team if they had a reason to believe the team was legitimately competitive. Nutting & Co. can see the difference in attendance relative to the strength of the team. But they don't seem interested in strengthening the team. So I guess they are content with small crowds.
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maher.timothy20@gm
attendance
Yeah, that's all true. I find the empty stands demoralizing in ways that probably make no logical sense. Possibly PTSD from back in the '80s when there were constant threats of the team moving to Mexico City or wherever.