332B292E2E39282F323325400 wrote: Any chance they fire Shelton. I just don't get any good feeling about the guy no matter the players he has. He just doesn't seemed engaged.
He seems like he's having fun playing manager and just seeing what moves he can make just because he can. Hey, lets play people out of position. Let's bench Hayes so Riddle can play. His moves don't makes sense even in the context of evaluating players. IMO he should be fired before he can do more damage next year. But I'm sure we're stuck with him for years to come. >:(
Game Thread - 9/13 - Keystone Cops Bucs @ Royals
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
Game Thread - 9/13 - Keystone Cops Bucs @ Royals
6E535E594E48530E0D043C0 wrote: Bobster hit the nail on the head. Playing time is a precious commodity. It should be used with great care. Hayes is probably the best fielding third baseman the Pirates have had in several decades. I don't see Riddle being on the club next year. Why waste it on him? Hayes or Gonzales make sense.
Bell has difficulty throwing and the DH is probably here to stay.
Looks like Poland I may be through.I would rather taKe a look at Cruz, O'Neil or Swag berry in RF.
Why beat around the bush? They are tanking.
I can't remember who said this (but I think it was Kenny Smith on TBS), but the comment was "it is not the players job to tank, it is management's job to tank." Sorry Kenny if that wasn't you.
I think all the strange moves, or lack of moves, is tanking. As Pirates fan and Mavericks owner Mark Cuban once said, "It is in our best interest to lose."
Crappy way to do business.
Bell has difficulty throwing and the DH is probably here to stay.
Looks like Poland I may be through.I would rather taKe a look at Cruz, O'Neil or Swag berry in RF.
Why beat around the bush? They are tanking.
I can't remember who said this (but I think it was Kenny Smith on TBS), but the comment was "it is not the players job to tank, it is management's job to tank." Sorry Kenny if that wasn't you.
I think all the strange moves, or lack of moves, is tanking. As Pirates fan and Mavericks owner Mark Cuban once said, "It is in our best interest to lose."
Crappy way to do business.
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fjk090852-7
- Posts: 3643
- Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:52 pm
Game Thread - 9/13 - Keystone Cops Bucs @ Royals
5D5A766177140 wrote: Bobster hit the nail on the head. Playing time is a precious commodity. It should be used with great care. Hayes is probably the best fielding third baseman the Pirates have had in several decades. I don't see Riddle being on the club next year. Why waste it on him? Hayes or Gonzales make sense.
Bell has difficulty throwing and the DH is probably here to stay.
Looks like Poland I may be through.I would rather taKe a look at Cruz, O'Neil or Swag berry in RF.
Why beat around the bush? They are tanking.
I can't remember who said this (but I think it was Kenny Smith on TBS), but the comment was "it is not the players job to tank, it is management's job to tank." Sorry Kenny if that wasn't you.
I think all the strange moves, or lack of moves, is tanking. As Pirates fan and Mavericks owner Mark Cuban once said, "It is in our best interest to lose."
Crappy way to do business.
I am not sure if they are tanking. MLB and the Players Association could agree to some type of draft lottery system because of this 60 game season. If this were to happen who knows which pick the Pirates would get in next years amateur draft. It seems like there has been a dark cloud over this organization since that night in Atlanta in 1992, so with the Pirates luck they would probably end up with the # 5 or #6 draft pick.
Bell has difficulty throwing and the DH is probably here to stay.
Looks like Poland I may be through.I would rather taKe a look at Cruz, O'Neil or Swag berry in RF.
Why beat around the bush? They are tanking.
I can't remember who said this (but I think it was Kenny Smith on TBS), but the comment was "it is not the players job to tank, it is management's job to tank." Sorry Kenny if that wasn't you.
I think all the strange moves, or lack of moves, is tanking. As Pirates fan and Mavericks owner Mark Cuban once said, "It is in our best interest to lose."
Crappy way to do business.
I am not sure if they are tanking. MLB and the Players Association could agree to some type of draft lottery system because of this 60 game season. If this were to happen who knows which pick the Pirates would get in next years amateur draft. It seems like there has been a dark cloud over this organization since that night in Atlanta in 1992, so with the Pirates luck they would probably end up with the # 5 or #6 draft pick.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Game Thread - 9/13 - Keystone Cops Bucs @ Royals
Pump the brakes.
Seriously. Take a long, hard, look at this roster. Take "Pirates" out of your thoughts. Pretend this is any other team for a minute.
You will then understand that this team is absolutely not tanking.
It's essentially the same level of talent that they ended last season with- maybe even worse. How did THAT roster end the season?
BOB has owned this team for how many years now? How long does it take to resonate with people that he's a cheap SOB x 10? I'm under the impression that it will take a few more years for that to sink in. He's NEVER going to have an adequate payroll to field a championship level team. That's it.
This roster IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH to tank. It's losing because they don't have (enough) good baseball players. That's it. End of story.
Seriously. Take a long, hard, look at this roster. Take "Pirates" out of your thoughts. Pretend this is any other team for a minute.
You will then understand that this team is absolutely not tanking.
It's essentially the same level of talent that they ended last season with- maybe even worse. How did THAT roster end the season?
BOB has owned this team for how many years now? How long does it take to resonate with people that he's a cheap SOB x 10? I'm under the impression that it will take a few more years for that to sink in. He's NEVER going to have an adequate payroll to field a championship level team. That's it.
This roster IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH to tank. It's losing because they don't have (enough) good baseball players. That's it. End of story.
Game Thread - 9/13 - Keystone Cops Bucs @ Royals
0F3A2D2D261F2D2D26212D480 wrote: Pump the brakes.
Seriously. Take a long, hard, look at this roster. Take "Pirates" out of your thoughts. Pretend this is any other team for a minute.
You will then understand that this team is absolutely not tanking.
It's essentially the same level of talent that they ended last season with- maybe even worse. How did THAT roster end the season?
BOB has owned this team for how many years now? How long does it take to resonate with people that he's a cheap SOB x 10? I'm under the impression that it will take a few more years for that to sink in. He's NEVER going to have an adequate payroll to field a championship level team. That's it.
This roster IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH to tank. It's losing because they don't have (enough) good baseball players. That's it. End of story.
This team does suck, but no one in the history of this board has whined more about not adding players than you. Like it or not, hopefully, it is part of a strategy. That my friend, is tanking.
Seriously. Take a long, hard, look at this roster. Take "Pirates" out of your thoughts. Pretend this is any other team for a minute.
You will then understand that this team is absolutely not tanking.
It's essentially the same level of talent that they ended last season with- maybe even worse. How did THAT roster end the season?
BOB has owned this team for how many years now? How long does it take to resonate with people that he's a cheap SOB x 10? I'm under the impression that it will take a few more years for that to sink in. He's NEVER going to have an adequate payroll to field a championship level team. That's it.
This roster IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH to tank. It's losing because they don't have (enough) good baseball players. That's it. End of story.
This team does suck, but no one in the history of this board has whined more about not adding players than you. Like it or not, hopefully, it is part of a strategy. That my friend, is tanking.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Game Thread - 9/13 - Keystone Cops Bucs @ Royals
Players are the people who tank, and these players aren't tanking.
I agree that management's not doing anything to help them, but that's not tanking.
Even if it was, Pirates management's not doing anything differently this year than they've done for years.
That's not tanking. It's being cheap.
I agree that management's not doing anything to help them, but that's not tanking.
Even if it was, Pirates management's not doing anything differently this year than they've done for years.
That's not tanking. It's being cheap.
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Bobster21
Game Thread - 9/13 - Keystone Cops Bucs @ Royals
5B6E7979724B79797275791C0 wrote: Players are the people who tank, and these players aren't tanking.
I agree that management's not doing anything to help them, but that's not tanking.
Even if it was, Pirates management's not doing anything differently this year than they've done for years.
That's not tanking. It's being cheap.
There's not a single player on the roster who's established enough in MLB they he can afford to tank for a season without worrying about the effect of horrible stats for a year on his career. And I don't think mgt is tanking either. Although I can see why some might think that based on BC's lack of quality moves and Shelton's handling of his roster. I can understand that BC knows he has little of value to trade and no reason to use a year of control for a player in this lost mini-season. But I believe it's just good old honest ineptitude with Shelton who only has to make the best use of what BC gives him. I would feel better about Shelton if I thought he was trying to lose games. At least that would show he had a clever plan for how to use his players. But, unfortunately, I fear he actually thinks he's making sound decisions and is clueless as to how bad his decisions are. And that doesn't bode well for the future.
I agree that management's not doing anything to help them, but that's not tanking.
Even if it was, Pirates management's not doing anything differently this year than they've done for years.
That's not tanking. It's being cheap.
There's not a single player on the roster who's established enough in MLB they he can afford to tank for a season without worrying about the effect of horrible stats for a year on his career. And I don't think mgt is tanking either. Although I can see why some might think that based on BC's lack of quality moves and Shelton's handling of his roster. I can understand that BC knows he has little of value to trade and no reason to use a year of control for a player in this lost mini-season. But I believe it's just good old honest ineptitude with Shelton who only has to make the best use of what BC gives him. I would feel better about Shelton if I thought he was trying to lose games. At least that would show he had a clever plan for how to use his players. But, unfortunately, I fear he actually thinks he's making sound decisions and is clueless as to how bad his decisions are. And that doesn't bode well for the future.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Game Thread - 9/13 - Keystone Cops Bucs @ Royals
I think there needs to be some clarity on what people mean by "tanking."
Players hardly ever tank. They're almost born with a winning mentality- or, at least the attempt to win. Sure, players are human and might get in a funk, but players will almost refuse if management gives indication that they want to lose games, whether on purpose or not.
Management hardly ever tanks openly. A good example is the Penguins before Lemieux was on the table. Management of certain teams have been known to do everything possible not to field a competitive team in hopes of drafting a guy like that. Guys like him don't come around very often. Maybe one player every ten years is like that. The other nine seasons, you don't tank for. And, that's in a sport with fewer positions than baseball.
These Pirates aren't like that. Under BOB, the team operates the same way. The 2020 Pirates aren't operating any differently from the 2019 club, the 2018 club, or all but a few of their teams. They hardly ever add a significant player from the outside, as compared to other teams. So, to say that management's tanking? Not in my opinion. They're doing what they almost always do.
MLB is different from the other major sports. In the NBA and NHL, one guy can make a significant difference to a roster, and even they're changing. It used to be one guy could do a lot. These days, it takes more like three.
In the NFL, a superior QB can make a big difference, but even he takes key teammates around him, plus a head coach.
Baseball, one guy can be the start of something, but when you have 8 spots on a diamond to have a guy- then, relievers, bench guys, placing all of your marbles on some suspect who may be legit....but, could also get injured or bust.....that sounds too risky for me to just give up an entire season for.
Players hardly ever tank. They're almost born with a winning mentality- or, at least the attempt to win. Sure, players are human and might get in a funk, but players will almost refuse if management gives indication that they want to lose games, whether on purpose or not.
Management hardly ever tanks openly. A good example is the Penguins before Lemieux was on the table. Management of certain teams have been known to do everything possible not to field a competitive team in hopes of drafting a guy like that. Guys like him don't come around very often. Maybe one player every ten years is like that. The other nine seasons, you don't tank for. And, that's in a sport with fewer positions than baseball.
These Pirates aren't like that. Under BOB, the team operates the same way. The 2020 Pirates aren't operating any differently from the 2019 club, the 2018 club, or all but a few of their teams. They hardly ever add a significant player from the outside, as compared to other teams. So, to say that management's tanking? Not in my opinion. They're doing what they almost always do.
MLB is different from the other major sports. In the NBA and NHL, one guy can make a significant difference to a roster, and even they're changing. It used to be one guy could do a lot. These days, it takes more like three.
In the NFL, a superior QB can make a big difference, but even he takes key teammates around him, plus a head coach.
Baseball, one guy can be the start of something, but when you have 8 spots on a diamond to have a guy- then, relievers, bench guys, placing all of your marbles on some suspect who may be legit....but, could also get injured or bust.....that sounds too risky for me to just give up an entire season for.