0C3E32322614373E3336393E5F0 wrote: There's a difference between that, and trashing the new guys before a single real game has even been played yet, though.
I don't want to trash the new guys but I think Nutting still deserves trashing.
It is pretty clear that Ben C. is starting over and doesn't have any sort of instructions or budget to try and produce a winning team in even a couple of seasons.
I find that disappointing after missing the post season for 4 years in a row.
I mean I get it, and I'm usually the last person to look in the bright side of things. Yeah, I think next few months or more will be interesting to see what what we have and what sort of strategy they're meaning to use.
Relax
The trashing, most of it is geared toward the owner. He sucks and deserves the trashing. The new guys that came in are here for a reason. They were cheap, had few options and are castoffs. Maybe someone might surprise us. I don't know. However, this franchise has little going for us. It's hard to find a positive outside of Reynolds, Newman and Bell, who will be gone soon. Frazier, I can add too. Prospects, we have some who will develop and have good careers, but we have one of the worst farm systems out there as far as developing.
Cherrington was a smart hire. At least he has a plan. I wasn't happy with the return for Marte, but he basically shared his plan with that return. Now, we know what's coming and that is a good thing.
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Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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I appreciate the many thoughtful comments. I'm fine trashing Nutting. However, I've grown weary of that. He is what he is. It isn't going change. Using slang names or non stop ridicule gets tiring.
That said, a team can win on the Bob Nutting budget. The Pirates need a FO who can maximize their resources. The previous regime did it for awhile and then stopped being creative. If they were still here and we found ourselves in this spot, I think the negativity would be justified. But I think this new group deserves some space.
BC has shown an ability to build a farm system and actually develop that system into productive major leaguers. That's what the previous regime ceased being able to do, especially with high impact talent. If that's what BC is here to do, it isn't going to show 5 months in. And it isn't going to show after this season. He needs time. He needs the opportunity to make a few trades. He needs time to do a few drafts and see how those guys progress in the system.
NH starting off with a dumpster fire system and turned it into a great team for three years. Then he quit adapting. But that didn't happen over night. So it is now.
That said, a team can win on the Bob Nutting budget. The Pirates need a FO who can maximize their resources. The previous regime did it for awhile and then stopped being creative. If they were still here and we found ourselves in this spot, I think the negativity would be justified. But I think this new group deserves some space.
BC has shown an ability to build a farm system and actually develop that system into productive major leaguers. That's what the previous regime ceased being able to do, especially with high impact talent. If that's what BC is here to do, it isn't going to show 5 months in. And it isn't going to show after this season. He needs time. He needs the opportunity to make a few trades. He needs time to do a few drafts and see how those guys progress in the system.
NH starting off with a dumpster fire system and turned it into a great team for three years. Then he quit adapting. But that didn't happen over night. So it is now.
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Yeah come on guys. Cheerlead like Pmike. You're ruining the board!
Every thread is the same negativity. It's hard to read 2-3 new negative posts per day! That's just too much of an onslaught of negativity to enjoy.
Every thread is the same negativity. It's hard to read 2-3 new negative posts per day! That's just too much of an onslaught of negativity to enjoy.
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I understand that the board would like to see less negativity. We are all Pirate fans, some of us for many many years. But. I am surprised that history seems to be repeating itself. When Dave Littlefield was fired and Huntington was hired. It was OK to take any and all shots at Littlefield, but nobody should dare criticize the new guy Huntington because he is so much better. Now that Huntington has been shown the door, the very same Huntington is fair game, but nobody should dare criticize the new guy Cherington because he is so much better. Instead of criticizing the guy that is no longer here, I praise the Management for any move they make to make the team better and I criticize the Management when they do nothing to improve the team. Improving the team is why they are here and what they are being paid for. Cherington needs to stop kicking the can down the road and do his job.
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Bobster21
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IMHO, it's hard to find fault with negative comments about this organization from loyal, diehard fans who are just sick of it and want better. Such comments are bound to be plentiful.
OTOH, I can't find fault with Cherington at this extremely early juncture. I understand the frustration of fans who want more and want it sooner than later. But BC is between a rock and a hard place. He took over a club whose owner gives him virtually no financial support and is supposed to build internally thru its prospects who have previously been poorly drafted, poorly evaluated, and/or poorly developed. The fact that every single roster addition has been a BC dumpster dive reveals to me that Job 1 is to do a thorough reevaluation of what they already have. And until that is done, there is no sense bringing in veterans who would block younger players even if Nutting was willing to pay for better players, which he clearly is not anyway. Obviously, no attempt was made to strengthen the team over its 2019 performance. I think that was by design because the emphasis will be on player development instead of trying to win a couple more games than last year. If they make no improvements, then BC's way will be fairly criticized. But that remains to be seen. My complaint with him was his comment a few weeks ago that they will spend when the time is right. The previous regime used the exact same line which proved to be a lie. He should have known better than to say that. It needs to happen but no one will believe it now until they actually see it. Because now it's like Lucy telling Charlie Brown she won't pull the football away just as he goes to kick it....again. But that instance of poor judgment aside (and maybe he's just gullible enough to believe Nutting), I think he going about what he believes has to initially be done, even if it displeases a fan base who are impatient.
OTOH, I can't find fault with Cherington at this extremely early juncture. I understand the frustration of fans who want more and want it sooner than later. But BC is between a rock and a hard place. He took over a club whose owner gives him virtually no financial support and is supposed to build internally thru its prospects who have previously been poorly drafted, poorly evaluated, and/or poorly developed. The fact that every single roster addition has been a BC dumpster dive reveals to me that Job 1 is to do a thorough reevaluation of what they already have. And until that is done, there is no sense bringing in veterans who would block younger players even if Nutting was willing to pay for better players, which he clearly is not anyway. Obviously, no attempt was made to strengthen the team over its 2019 performance. I think that was by design because the emphasis will be on player development instead of trying to win a couple more games than last year. If they make no improvements, then BC's way will be fairly criticized. But that remains to be seen. My complaint with him was his comment a few weeks ago that they will spend when the time is right. The previous regime used the exact same line which proved to be a lie. He should have known better than to say that. It needs to happen but no one will believe it now until they actually see it. Because now it's like Lucy telling Charlie Brown she won't pull the football away just as he goes to kick it....again. But that instance of poor judgment aside (and maybe he's just gullible enough to believe Nutting), I think he going about what he believes has to initially be done, even if it displeases a fan base who are impatient.
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2E353839303C335D0 wrote: I understand that the board would like to see less negativity. We are all Pirate fans, some of us for many many years. But. I am surprised that history seems to be repeating itself. When Dave Littlefield was fired and Huntington was hired. It was OK to take any and all shots at Littlefield, but nobody should dare criticize the new guy Huntington because he is so much better. Now that Huntington has been shown the door, the very same Huntington is fair game, but nobody should dare criticize the new guy Cherington because he is so much better. Instead of criticizing the guy that is no longer here, I praise the Management for any move they make to make the team better and I criticize the Management when they do nothing to improve the team. Improving the team is why they are here and what they are being paid for. Cherington needs to stop kicking the can down the road and do his job.
________
When Huntington first came here, the story was that he will be different from Littlefield. He will build the farm system, draft better, emphasize player development, and build from within. Huntington wouldn't worry about winning a few more games this year and that he would spend when the time was right. The only thing that has changed now is the name of the GM is changed from Huntington to Cherington. I will jump on the Cherington bandwagon the very moment in whatever year he does something to improve the team.
________
When Huntington first came here, the story was that he will be different from Littlefield. He will build the farm system, draft better, emphasize player development, and build from within. Huntington wouldn't worry about winning a few more games this year and that he would spend when the time was right. The only thing that has changed now is the name of the GM is changed from Huntington to Cherington. I will jump on the Cherington bandwagon the very moment in whatever year he does something to improve the team.
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Bobster21
Board Vibe
726964656C606F010 wrote: I understand that the board would like to see less negativity. We are all Pirate fans, some of us for many many years. But. I am surprised that history seems to be repeating itself. When Dave Littlefield was fired and Huntington was hired. It was OK to take any and all shots at Littlefield, but nobody should dare criticize the new guy Huntington because he is so much better. Now that Huntington has been shown the door, the very same Huntington is fair game, but nobody should dare criticize the new guy Cherington because he is so much better. Instead of criticizing the guy that is no longer here, I praise the Management for any move they make to make the team better and I criticize the Management when they do nothing to improve the team. Improving the team is why they are here and what they are being paid for. Cherington needs to stop kicking the can down the road and do his job.
________
When Huntington first came here, the story was that he will be different from Littlefield. He will build the farm system, draft better, emphasize player development, and build from within. Huntington wouldn't worry about winning a few more games this year and that he would spend when the time was right. The only thing that has changed now is the name of the GM is changed from Huntington to Cherington. I will jump on the Cherington bandwagon the very moment in whatever year he does something to improve the team.
There's a difference between not criticizing BC and praising him. He hasn't done anything to deserve praise. And he shouldn't be criticized just because NH tried the same thing and failed. He's sort of in limbo right now.
________
When Huntington first came here, the story was that he will be different from Littlefield. He will build the farm system, draft better, emphasize player development, and build from within. Huntington wouldn't worry about winning a few more games this year and that he would spend when the time was right. The only thing that has changed now is the name of the GM is changed from Huntington to Cherington. I will jump on the Cherington bandwagon the very moment in whatever year he does something to improve the team.
There's a difference between not criticizing BC and praising him. He hasn't done anything to deserve praise. And he shouldn't be criticized just because NH tried the same thing and failed. He's sort of in limbo right now.
Board Vibe
220F02131405125251600 wrote: I understand that the board would like to see less negativity. We are all Pirate fans, some of us for many many years. But. I am surprised that history seems to be repeating itself. When Dave Littlefield was fired and Huntington was hired. It was OK to take any and all shots at Littlefield, but nobody should dare criticize the new guy Huntington because he is so much better. Now that Huntington has been shown the door, the very same Huntington is fair game, but nobody should dare criticize the new guy Cherington because he is so much better. Instead of criticizing the guy that is no longer here, I praise the Management for any move they make to make the team better and I criticize the Management when they do nothing to improve the team. Improving the team is why they are here and what they are being paid for. Cherington needs to stop kicking the can down the road and do his job.
________
When Huntington first came here, the story was that he will be different from Littlefield. He will build the farm system, draft better, emphasize player development, and build from within. Huntington wouldn't worry about winning a few more games this year and that he would spend when the time was right. The only thing that has changed now is the name of the GM is changed from Huntington to Cherington. I will jump on the Cherington bandwagon the very moment in whatever year he does something to improve the team.
There's a difference between not criticizing BC and praising him. He hasn't done anything to deserve praise. And he shouldn't be criticized just because NH tried the same thing and failed. He's sort of in limbo right now.
That is what I am thinking too. It is just too early in my opinion. However, I do wish he would be clearer on how he intends to proceed.
________
When Huntington first came here, the story was that he will be different from Littlefield. He will build the farm system, draft better, emphasize player development, and build from within. Huntington wouldn't worry about winning a few more games this year and that he would spend when the time was right. The only thing that has changed now is the name of the GM is changed from Huntington to Cherington. I will jump on the Cherington bandwagon the very moment in whatever year he does something to improve the team.
There's a difference between not criticizing BC and praising him. He hasn't done anything to deserve praise. And he shouldn't be criticized just because NH tried the same thing and failed. He's sort of in limbo right now.
That is what I am thinking too. It is just too early in my opinion. However, I do wish he would be clearer on how he intends to proceed.
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DemDog
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Speaking of being in limbo I wonder what Pennies will do to help the MiLB players in the system and more importantly the hourly employees at PNC who depend on those wages to make ends meet. And that is the tip of the iceberg. What about the folks in ticket sales who most likely work on some sort of commission and are unable to get the word out and sell some tix.
Board Vibe
110A07060F030C620 wrote: I understand that the board would like to see less negativity. We are all Pirate fans, some of us for many many years. But. I am surprised that history seems to be repeating itself. When Dave Littlefield was fired and Huntington was hired. It was OK to take any and all shots at Littlefield, but nobody should dare criticize the new guy Huntington because he is so much better. Now that Huntington has been shown the door, the very same Huntington is fair game, but nobody should dare criticize the new guy Cherington because he is so much better. Instead of criticizing the guy that is no longer here, I praise the Management for any move they make to make the team better and I criticize the Management when they do nothing to improve the team. Improving the team is why they are here and what they are being paid for. Cherington needs to stop kicking the can down the road and do his job.
________
When Huntington first came here, the story was that he will be different from Littlefield. He will build the farm system, draft better, emphasize player development, and build from within. Huntington wouldn't worry about winning a few more games this year and that he would spend when the time was right. The only thing that has changed now is the name of the GM is changed from Huntington to Cherington. I will jump on the Cherington bandwagon the very moment in whatever year he does something to improve the team.
In BC's defense, he hasn't had a chance to do any of the things you mentioned (that I bolded).
________
When Huntington first came here, the story was that he will be different from Littlefield. He will build the farm system, draft better, emphasize player development, and build from within. Huntington wouldn't worry about winning a few more games this year and that he would spend when the time was right. The only thing that has changed now is the name of the GM is changed from Huntington to Cherington. I will jump on the Cherington bandwagon the very moment in whatever year he does something to improve the team.
In BC's defense, he hasn't had a chance to do any of the things you mentioned (that I bolded).