Thanks Bobster. That's what I talking about. That is an impact and the fear in the line up.
Kendall batted 8th as a rookie. He didn't carry the team or was feared. Yeah, he had a fine season but no way does it compare to the guys I mentioned. Bellinger, Bryant, and Judge all bat in the middle of the line up. They are feared and providing most of the scoring for their teams.
Impact Rookies
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
Impact Rookies
4F444C4045445F1A1C6B524A4344440548442B0 wrote: I wish the pirates had an impact rookie to come up or start the season and just dominate. Have they ever had this type of player*?
McCutchen is great, but still took him four years to dominate. Yet, other teams get that impact rookie right away. Meadows will take time too. Guys have been decent, but not that MVP right away.
Look at the 2103 draft. Bryant, Judge and Bellinger were all in that draft. Bryant was ROY and MVP in his second year. Judge is considered a rookie this year and is the leading MVP candidate. Bellinger has more HRs than anyone in the history of baseball (history) in their first 50 games.
The Pirates could have had Judge (32nd overall) and Bellinger (4th rounder) and even had two first round picks that year.
Not to single out that draft or Meadows, but overall the Pirates never seem to get lucky to get that player. I would love to get that impact rookie.
*Jason Bay had some fine seasons, but not compared to these guys.
I totally agree with Dogknot on this.
He's correct that NH is just not very good at drafting and developing impact talent.
McCutchen is great, but still took him four years to dominate. Yet, other teams get that impact rookie right away. Meadows will take time too. Guys have been decent, but not that MVP right away.
Look at the 2103 draft. Bryant, Judge and Bellinger were all in that draft. Bryant was ROY and MVP in his second year. Judge is considered a rookie this year and is the leading MVP candidate. Bellinger has more HRs than anyone in the history of baseball (history) in their first 50 games.
The Pirates could have had Judge (32nd overall) and Bellinger (4th rounder) and even had two first round picks that year.
Not to single out that draft or Meadows, but overall the Pirates never seem to get lucky to get that player. I would love to get that impact rookie.
*Jason Bay had some fine seasons, but not compared to these guys.
I totally agree with Dogknot on this.
He's correct that NH is just not very good at drafting and developing impact talent.
-
dogknot17@yahoo.co
Impact Rookies
I am not saying that, I just don't see someone like Meadows or Newman hitting the scene running like some current rookies. It will take a while before they are established like it did (or will do) for Bell, Marte, McCutchen, Polanco, Alavrez, etc..
-
ArnoldRothstein
Impact Rookies
Don Robinson was a true rookie in 1978 and went 14-6.
Bob Robertson was right with Zisk as a hitter, though his start got delayed by some health issues.
Bob Robertson was right with Zisk as a hitter, though his start got delayed by some health issues.
-
Bobster21
Impact Rookies
02312D2C2F27112C372B3037262A2D430 wrote: Don Robinson was a true rookie in 1978 and went 14-6.
Bob Robertson was right with Zisk as a hitter, though his start got delayed by some health issues.
Robertson was another of the 1969 rookie class but was hindered by a bad back and hit only .208 with 1 HR with limited playing time. But he was certainly an impact player the following 2 years. Unfortunately, 1970 and 1971 were his only good seasons. Zisk had an immediate impact as a rookie when inserted as the starting RFer midway through 1973. He never had a down year for them and was traded prior to the 1977 season for Gossage and Forster. All 3 were due for free agency in 1978. They all had good seasons in 1977 for their new teams but all moved on to other teams for 1978.
Incidentally, Gossage came from the Chisox adfter a 9-17 season as a starter with a 3.94 ERA and a K rate of just 5.4/9. Chuck Tanner had managed the Chisox thru 1975 and was well aware Gossage should only relieve. He put Goose back in the bullpen where he belonged and Gossage turned his career around with a 1.62 ERA and K rate of 10.4/9. It was Goose's only year as a Pirate but the best season of his HOF career.
Bob Robertson was right with Zisk as a hitter, though his start got delayed by some health issues.
Robertson was another of the 1969 rookie class but was hindered by a bad back and hit only .208 with 1 HR with limited playing time. But he was certainly an impact player the following 2 years. Unfortunately, 1970 and 1971 were his only good seasons. Zisk had an immediate impact as a rookie when inserted as the starting RFer midway through 1973. He never had a down year for them and was traded prior to the 1977 season for Gossage and Forster. All 3 were due for free agency in 1978. They all had good seasons in 1977 for their new teams but all moved on to other teams for 1978.
Incidentally, Gossage came from the Chisox adfter a 9-17 season as a starter with a 3.94 ERA and a K rate of just 5.4/9. Chuck Tanner had managed the Chisox thru 1975 and was well aware Gossage should only relieve. He put Goose back in the bullpen where he belonged and Gossage turned his career around with a 1.62 ERA and K rate of 10.4/9. It was Goose's only year as a Pirate but the best season of his HOF career.
-
ChitownBucco
- Posts: 492
- Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:10 pm
Impact Rookies
Kang had about a 4.0 WAR in his shortened rookie season
Tim Wakefield in 92 went 8-1 in 13 games started with 4 complete games and of course had the 2 complete game wins in the playoffs vs the Braves.
Tim Wakefield in 92 went 8-1 in 13 games started with 4 complete games and of course had the 2 complete game wins in the playoffs vs the Braves.
-
skinnyhorse
- Posts: 926
- Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:19 am
Impact Rookies
It's obvious NH isn't a good evaluator of talent. The only draft pick he has had that came up quickly and he had several very high picks is Cole. Everyone else, it has taken forever to get any production out of them, and then only limited success. His trades have been mostly bad. We need a real evaluation of the front office and manager. All we have been getting is blowing smoke, and unfortunately the fans keep buying the garbage they are putting out. I'm tired of always wait until next year. Cutch was a real talent, NH didn't draft him, he just got lucky and now that Cutch is obviously not the player of his MVP years, this team is in trouble. Why can't we draft a real prospect and get them to the majors in a couple of years like other teams. Because of poor talent evaluation by NH and front office.
-
ChitownBucco
- Posts: 492
- Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:10 pm
Impact Rookies
594143444453424558594F2A0 wrote: It's obvious NH isn't a good evaluator of talent. The only draft pick he has had that came up quickly and he had several very high picks is Cole. Everyone else, it has taken forever to get any production out of them, and then only limited success. His trades have been mostly bad.
I would disagree pretty hard with that statement
I would disagree pretty hard with that statement
-
skinnyhorse
- Posts: 926
- Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:19 am
Impact Rookies
6843425F445C45695E4848442B0 wrote: It's obvious NH isn't a good evaluator of talent. The only draft pick he has had that came up quickly and he had several very high picks is Cole. Everyone else, it has taken forever to get any production out of them, and then only limited success. His trades have been mostly bad.
I would disagree pretty hard with that statement
why?
I would disagree pretty hard with that statement
why?
-
rucker59@gmail.com
Impact Rookies
766E6C6B6B7C6D6A777660050 wrote: It's obvious NH isn't a good evaluator of talent. The only draft pick he has had that came up quickly and he had several very high picks is Cole. Everyone else, it has taken forever to get any production out of them, and then only limited success. His trades have been mostly bad.
I would disagree pretty hard with that statement
why?
Trades are debatable but sadly the reality of the Pirate's limited success with drafted talent is not. Looking back, this miss in evaluating the draft is even more damaging than a tight budget.
Kang is the closest to a break-out rookie. Cole - I guess he sort of lived up to hype, but not really. Taillion is going to be very good, Bell hopefully. Otherwise, I think it can be said of most pirate fans that we are suffering the consequences of significant overvaluation of our prospects.
The failure of the "best outfield in baseball"
The "failure" of Cole to be a true ace
The shocking failure of Glasnow (so far)
has been devastating To this organization. Neal is responsible.
Meadows is "next up". He must be a star.
I would disagree pretty hard with that statement
why?
Trades are debatable but sadly the reality of the Pirate's limited success with drafted talent is not. Looking back, this miss in evaluating the draft is even more damaging than a tight budget.
Kang is the closest to a break-out rookie. Cole - I guess he sort of lived up to hype, but not really. Taillion is going to be very good, Bell hopefully. Otherwise, I think it can be said of most pirate fans that we are suffering the consequences of significant overvaluation of our prospects.
The failure of the "best outfield in baseball"
The "failure" of Cole to be a true ace
The shocking failure of Glasnow (so far)
has been devastating To this organization. Neal is responsible.
Meadows is "next up". He must be a star.