464D45494C4D561315625B434A4D4D0C414D220 wrote:
Was McGuire in the deal because Neal Huntington knows he won't be a successful starting catcher?
No. He was included in the deal because Huntington was 100% intent on dumping Liriano's salary and that was one of the players included to do so.
And McGuire has zero major league service time, so it would be more difficult to assess how he'll do if he ever makes the majors.
On the other hand, Hutchison has had a few years at the major league level. His results would indicate that his chances of succeeding are slim.
Liriano or Nova?
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
Liriano or Nova?
for what it is worth, I think it is very likely that McGuire's career at the Major league level still has a good chance of being better than Chris Stewart's.
Liriano or Nova?
406667706676050 wrote: for what it is worth, I think it is very likely that McGuire's career at the Major league level still has a good chance of being better than Chris Stewart's.
Well yeah. If his defense is as good as everyone says and has sold us for a couple years. It doesn't matter if his power/slugging doesn't develop. If he walks as much as his strikes out, he's a ML backup all day long.
He's 21 in AA last year. If his defense is just a big organizational lie, (A La Tony Sanchez) then yes. Big problems. If it's good, he's valuable with potential upside.
I'm 100% sure that if he were still in our org, people would be talking him up. But that's the MO. Once a player or prospect is moved, no good or an organizational problem
Well yeah. If his defense is as good as everyone says and has sold us for a couple years. It doesn't matter if his power/slugging doesn't develop. If he walks as much as his strikes out, he's a ML backup all day long.
He's 21 in AA last year. If his defense is just a big organizational lie, (A La Tony Sanchez) then yes. Big problems. If it's good, he's valuable with potential upside.
I'm 100% sure that if he were still in our org, people would be talking him up. But that's the MO. Once a player or prospect is moved, no good or an organizational problem
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OrlandoMerced
Liriano or Nova?
Of course, if he were still a Pirate prospect, we'd be focused on the upside. The hope was that as he aged and added bulk he would add some power. He had nice strikeout and walk rates, but if he didn't add power he would continue to be over matched at the plate and have no value at the major league level.
Liriano or Nova?
6D504E434C464D6F4750414746220 wrote: Of course, if he were still a Pirate prospect, we'd be focused on the upside. The hope was that as he aged and added bulk he would add some power. He had nice strikeout and walk rates, but if he didn't add power he would continue to be over matched at the plate and have no value at the major league level.
Nah. In fact, because of the type of hitter he is and his walk rate, he has a better chance to hold that OPS in the mid-.600 range than if he were slugging and striking out at AA.If his defense is ++ he still has ML value even if the power doesn't develop. If the defense was another lie, then I agree there's no ML value.
I realize that's inconvenient being that our GM traded him for nothing.
Singles hitters with very good patience and discipline arent a big risk of being "overmatched"
Nah. In fact, because of the type of hitter he is and his walk rate, he has a better chance to hold that OPS in the mid-.600 range than if he were slugging and striking out at AA.If his defense is ++ he still has ML value even if the power doesn't develop. If the defense was another lie, then I agree there's no ML value.
I realize that's inconvenient being that our GM traded him for nothing.
Singles hitters with very good patience and discipline arent a big risk of being "overmatched"
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Liriano or Nova?
0323302D2C420 wrote:
Was McGuire in the deal because Neal Huntington knows he won't be a successful starting catcher?
No. He was included in the deal because Huntington was 100% intent on dumping Liriano's salary and that was one of the players included to do so.
And McGuire has zero major league service time, so it would be more difficult to assess how he'll do if he ever makes the majors.
On the other hand, Hutchison has had a few years at the major league level. His results would indicate that his chances of succeeding are slim.
Oh, funny how that works for Toronto and not the Pirates. Ha ha.
Was McGuire in the deal because Neal Huntington knows he won't be a successful starting catcher?
No. He was included in the deal because Huntington was 100% intent on dumping Liriano's salary and that was one of the players included to do so.
And McGuire has zero major league service time, so it would be more difficult to assess how he'll do if he ever makes the majors.
On the other hand, Hutchison has had a few years at the major league level. His results would indicate that his chances of succeeding are slim.
Oh, funny how that works for Toronto and not the Pirates. Ha ha.
Liriano or Nova?
2F242C2025243F7A7C0B322A2324246528244B0 wrote:
Was McGuire in the deal because Neal Huntington knows he won't be a successful starting catcher?
No. He was included in the deal because Huntington was 100% intent on dumping Liriano's salary and that was one of the players included to do so.
And McGuire has zero major league service time, so it would be more difficult to assess how he'll do if he ever makes the majors.
On the other hand, Hutchison has had a few years at the major league level. His results would indicate that his chances of succeeding are slim.
Oh, funny how that works for Toronto and not the Pirates. Ha ha.
LOL!!!
If you can't see the difference between a guy with over 400 IP in the majors since 2012 and a guy with barely 300 at bat above A ball, I can't help you. Not sure anyone can help you.
Was McGuire in the deal because Neal Huntington knows he won't be a successful starting catcher?
No. He was included in the deal because Huntington was 100% intent on dumping Liriano's salary and that was one of the players included to do so.
And McGuire has zero major league service time, so it would be more difficult to assess how he'll do if he ever makes the majors.
On the other hand, Hutchison has had a few years at the major league level. His results would indicate that his chances of succeeding are slim.
Oh, funny how that works for Toronto and not the Pirates. Ha ha.
LOL!!!
If you can't see the difference between a guy with over 400 IP in the majors since 2012 and a guy with barely 300 at bat above A ball, I can't help you. Not sure anyone can help you.
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Bobster21
Liriano or Nova?
2D100E030C060D2F0710010706620 wrote: Of course, if he were still a Pirate prospect, we'd be focused on the upside. The hope was that as he aged and added bulk he would add some power. He had nice strikeout and walk rates, but if he didn't add power he would continue to be over matched at the plate and have no value at the major league level.
I don't follow. Lots of hitters have no power but are not overmatched at the plate. A strong defensive catcher is a valuable asset. Someone who can control the running game, work well with the pitchers to call a good game, frame pitches and block balls in the dirt can be a difference maker. The Pirates signed Russell Martin coming off a .211 season because they desperately needed improvement behind the plate after Rod Barajas; not because Martin could hit HRs. McGuire hit .254 in AA. Not great but not horrible. If he can hit .250 in MLB and be a valuable asset behind the plate, it won't matter if he doesn't hit HRs. Barajas hit 11 HRs in 321 ABs in 2012. But behind the plate he was a disaster and they couldn't replace him fast enough. If McGuire is as advertised defensively, it won't take much offense to make him a MLB catcher.
I don't follow. Lots of hitters have no power but are not overmatched at the plate. A strong defensive catcher is a valuable asset. Someone who can control the running game, work well with the pitchers to call a good game, frame pitches and block balls in the dirt can be a difference maker. The Pirates signed Russell Martin coming off a .211 season because they desperately needed improvement behind the plate after Rod Barajas; not because Martin could hit HRs. McGuire hit .254 in AA. Not great but not horrible. If he can hit .250 in MLB and be a valuable asset behind the plate, it won't matter if he doesn't hit HRs. Barajas hit 11 HRs in 321 ABs in 2012. But behind the plate he was a disaster and they couldn't replace him fast enough. If McGuire is as advertised defensively, it won't take much offense to make him a MLB catcher.
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OrlandoMerced
Liriano or Nova?
I don't think he's a bust. It's more that I think his future profile is that of a replacement level ML catcher.
Can he make the majors, I think so, is he going to do much when he gets there....looking less and less likely as each season passes.
Can he make the majors, I think so, is he going to do much when he gets there....looking less and less likely as each season passes.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Liriano or Nova?
5171627F7E100 wrote:
Was McGuire in the deal because Neal Huntington knows he won't be a successful starting catcher?
No. He was included in the deal because Huntington was 100% intent on dumping Liriano's salary and that was one of the players included to do so.
And McGuire has zero major league service time, so it would be more difficult to assess how he'll do if he ever makes the majors.
On the other hand, Hutchison has had a few years at the major league level. His results would indicate that his chances of succeeding are slim.
Oh, funny how that works for Toronto and not the Pirates. Ha ha.
LOL!!!
If you can't see the difference between a guy with over 400 IP in the majors since 2012 and a guy with barely 300 at bat above A ball, I can't help you. Not sure anyone can help you.
Your reasoning is what is funny.
Was McGuire in the deal because Neal Huntington knows he won't be a successful starting catcher?
No. He was included in the deal because Huntington was 100% intent on dumping Liriano's salary and that was one of the players included to do so.
And McGuire has zero major league service time, so it would be more difficult to assess how he'll do if he ever makes the majors.
On the other hand, Hutchison has had a few years at the major league level. His results would indicate that his chances of succeeding are slim.
Oh, funny how that works for Toronto and not the Pirates. Ha ha.
LOL!!!
If you can't see the difference between a guy with over 400 IP in the majors since 2012 and a guy with barely 300 at bat above A ball, I can't help you. Not sure anyone can help you.
Your reasoning is what is funny.