More and more this is turning into Groundhog Day.
You guys must have the same stale arguments from 10 years ago stored in Word documents. You trotted out them out annually on the PMB before it got shut down, then, when we all went to the UPPMB before the mods shut that down.
Now, here it is again. Are you trying to incite another Fringe/Apologist war and go for 3?
Really, it's old crap that no one wants to live through again. We've all been widely accepted on this board, unlike the UPPMB. If this keeps up, this group may turn on us too.
Give it a break already.
Off Season Thread
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
-
SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3631
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Off Season Thread
313D3C676E676F62657A60570 wrote: IMHO the entire first off season was almost a waste because of the late hiring process. It was done in most unusual fashion and timing, which for the Pirates of late, comes as no surprise.
A truncated spring training. With my recollection, there really wasn't anyone that seemed to be busting out, they were doing pretty bad. That couldn't have helped.
But it was obvious this team had absolutely nothing with which to trade for immediate impact, which I believe I have stated on a few occasions.
Now people are questioning MARTE's trade?!?!?!?!? The guy was absolutely excoriated in every forum I was a member. You know, "all that talent, but never realized it"...."ten cent head"...."lazy".....I'm sure there were plenty of others. Yet somehow, BC was supposed to get some immediate quality ML ready player that would satisfy the collective mindset of the fandom? For that guy? What I find amazing is that somehow, Marte suddenly got WAY better immediately after he was traded. He suddenly became a top notch Pirate talent.
Let us not forget, this past draft. Remember, the one with only SIX picks? The Pirates went pitcher and college heavy, to get guys who were closer to being ready because there really wasn't much down on the farm. They used 99.2 percent of their allotted signing money, and signed all of their picks. So, they didn't even get a normal draft for the first go around. I wonder if they even got to pick guys they really wanted due to the fewer number of picks.
Last but not least, didn't improve on ONE position? Am I the only one who noticed they had one of the better starting rotations for the last six weeks of the season?
So yeah, they were terrible. Sure would have been nice if Josh Bell, Bryan Reynolds, Adam Frazier, Kevin Newman would have shown up. You know, they guys whose names seem to be bandied about as actual trade options for really, really, really good talent?
There was nothing to trade to make the team even "one position better". There was nothing turned over. There was no way to even evaluate the players in the system. I hated this last season, but face it, that was their spring training. They did exactly what every single one of us knew was going to happen, and finish last.
Yet somehow, the expectations were, actually I don't know what for last season.
AFAIC, the real work started with the draft, and I'll wait and see what happens from there on forward. This offseason IMHO is really this regime's first.
I'm going to actually see if they do anything for once. One thing you could count on with NH, no need to follow the transactions listing.
______
So, there was absolutely no possible way to improve the worst team in all of baseball?
Ben did such a fine job that the team didn't even win 1/3 of its games.
The guy put forth absolutely no effort. Yet, the apologies for it seem endless.
No wonder we lose. No surprise if we continue to lose.
Did you check out all the activity he has done? International spending is through the roof, he traded scrap for the money to sign guys who were already playing professional ball. Just because you didn't see something you feel reflects "action" at the major league level, he's hardly sat on his hands. There's more to his job, and more to what he's been doing then meets your eye.
He signed 22 free agents (most to minor league contracts) he made 5 waiver claims. He made 8 trades, many of them to gain more bonus pool money and international money.
By the looks of it, he's already been busy turning over the foundation of the organization, a pretty weak one at that. He's already targeted college players, international players to accelerate a top tier in the organizational chart, because there wasn't much else. Next year they'll have the number one draft position.
Keep your blood pressure in check, watch your weight, exercise regularly. The 2022 Pirates are going to be something to watch, and it's going to be a great 2021 watching them take those first steps to relevance.
There are probably many who don’t agree with you, but I too have faith that this current FO is going to turn things around rather quickly.
I wouldn't say I have faith in them, but that we literally haven't seen the things that they should be putting the work into. There were no minor leagues. How can anyone say with any confidence that they're good or they suck? It seems like a Rorschach test to me. At this point any opinions on the regime says more about the person with the opinion than anything that's actually down on ink and paper.
A truncated spring training. With my recollection, there really wasn't anyone that seemed to be busting out, they were doing pretty bad. That couldn't have helped.
But it was obvious this team had absolutely nothing with which to trade for immediate impact, which I believe I have stated on a few occasions.
Now people are questioning MARTE's trade?!?!?!?!? The guy was absolutely excoriated in every forum I was a member. You know, "all that talent, but never realized it"...."ten cent head"...."lazy".....I'm sure there were plenty of others. Yet somehow, BC was supposed to get some immediate quality ML ready player that would satisfy the collective mindset of the fandom? For that guy? What I find amazing is that somehow, Marte suddenly got WAY better immediately after he was traded. He suddenly became a top notch Pirate talent.
Let us not forget, this past draft. Remember, the one with only SIX picks? The Pirates went pitcher and college heavy, to get guys who were closer to being ready because there really wasn't much down on the farm. They used 99.2 percent of their allotted signing money, and signed all of their picks. So, they didn't even get a normal draft for the first go around. I wonder if they even got to pick guys they really wanted due to the fewer number of picks.
Last but not least, didn't improve on ONE position? Am I the only one who noticed they had one of the better starting rotations for the last six weeks of the season?
So yeah, they were terrible. Sure would have been nice if Josh Bell, Bryan Reynolds, Adam Frazier, Kevin Newman would have shown up. You know, they guys whose names seem to be bandied about as actual trade options for really, really, really good talent?
There was nothing to trade to make the team even "one position better". There was nothing turned over. There was no way to even evaluate the players in the system. I hated this last season, but face it, that was their spring training. They did exactly what every single one of us knew was going to happen, and finish last.
Yet somehow, the expectations were, actually I don't know what for last season.
AFAIC, the real work started with the draft, and I'll wait and see what happens from there on forward. This offseason IMHO is really this regime's first.
I'm going to actually see if they do anything for once. One thing you could count on with NH, no need to follow the transactions listing.
______
So, there was absolutely no possible way to improve the worst team in all of baseball?
Ben did such a fine job that the team didn't even win 1/3 of its games.
The guy put forth absolutely no effort. Yet, the apologies for it seem endless.
No wonder we lose. No surprise if we continue to lose.
Did you check out all the activity he has done? International spending is through the roof, he traded scrap for the money to sign guys who were already playing professional ball. Just because you didn't see something you feel reflects "action" at the major league level, he's hardly sat on his hands. There's more to his job, and more to what he's been doing then meets your eye.
He signed 22 free agents (most to minor league contracts) he made 5 waiver claims. He made 8 trades, many of them to gain more bonus pool money and international money.
By the looks of it, he's already been busy turning over the foundation of the organization, a pretty weak one at that. He's already targeted college players, international players to accelerate a top tier in the organizational chart, because there wasn't much else. Next year they'll have the number one draft position.
Keep your blood pressure in check, watch your weight, exercise regularly. The 2022 Pirates are going to be something to watch, and it's going to be a great 2021 watching them take those first steps to relevance.
There are probably many who don’t agree with you, but I too have faith that this current FO is going to turn things around rather quickly.
I wouldn't say I have faith in them, but that we literally haven't seen the things that they should be putting the work into. There were no minor leagues. How can anyone say with any confidence that they're good or they suck? It seems like a Rorschach test to me. At this point any opinions on the regime says more about the person with the opinion than anything that's actually down on ink and paper.
-
SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3631
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Off Season Thread
406B7C730A0 wrote:
You guys must have the same stale arguments from 10 years ago stored in Word documents. You trotted out them out annually on the PMB before it got shut down, then, when we all went to the UPPMB before the mods shut that down.
The official PMB got shut down? I had no idea but good riddance. It became a cesspool years ago with no actual discussion possible.
You guys must have the same stale arguments from 10 years ago stored in Word documents. You trotted out them out annually on the PMB before it got shut down, then, when we all went to the UPPMB before the mods shut that down.
The official PMB got shut down? I had no idea but good riddance. It became a cesspool years ago with no actual discussion possible.
Off Season Thread
74464A4A5E6C4F464B4E4146270 wrote:
You guys must have the same stale arguments from 10 years ago stored in Word documents. You trotted out them out annually on the PMB before it got shut down, then, when we all went to the UPPMB before the mods shut that down.
The official PMB got shut down? I had no idea but good riddance. It became a cesspool years ago with no actual discussion possible.
Yes, One day, POOF it was gone, along with all the other team sites. They did away with the whole lot of them. No explanation given.
You guys must have the same stale arguments from 10 years ago stored in Word documents. You trotted out them out annually on the PMB before it got shut down, then, when we all went to the UPPMB before the mods shut that down.
The official PMB got shut down? I had no idea but good riddance. It became a cesspool years ago with no actual discussion possible.
Yes, One day, POOF it was gone, along with all the other team sites. They did away with the whole lot of them. No explanation given.
-
SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3631
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Off Season Thread
PMB was my first "SammyKhalifa" iteration, and I've taken it as default now everywhere I go whether the place is baseball related or not. I had a lot of fun there until you couldn't say a word about anything that didn't turn into a McClatchy/Nutting argument.
Off Season Thread
4E7C70706456757C71747B7C1D0 wrote:
You guys must have the same stale arguments from 10 years ago stored in Word documents. You trotted out them out annually on the PMB before it got shut down, then, when we all went to the UPPMB before the mods shut that down.
The official PMB got shut down? I had no idea but good riddance. It became a cesspool years ago with no actual discussion possible.
The entire MLB platform was shutdown. Probably for the best, but would have been nice to have some notice, so some threads could have been saved and people had a chance to exchange contact info if they wanted. Every single message board that was very active, like the PMB, were identical. I guess too many of us forgot how to behave, and they took away our toy.
You guys must have the same stale arguments from 10 years ago stored in Word documents. You trotted out them out annually on the PMB before it got shut down, then, when we all went to the UPPMB before the mods shut that down.
The official PMB got shut down? I had no idea but good riddance. It became a cesspool years ago with no actual discussion possible.
The entire MLB platform was shutdown. Probably for the best, but would have been nice to have some notice, so some threads could have been saved and people had a chance to exchange contact info if they wanted. Every single message board that was very active, like the PMB, were identical. I guess too many of us forgot how to behave, and they took away our toy.
Off Season Thread
Yes. I remember your monicker now. I was javelin17 there, and just shortened it to Javy.
-
GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Off Season Thread
Gee, I wonder WHY arguments from ten years prevail.
-
ChillinStation
- Posts: 424
- Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2020 2:40 pm
Off Season Thread
6942555A230 wrote: More and more this is turning into Groundhog Day.
You guys must have the same stale arguments from 10 years ago stored in Word documents. You trotted out them out annually on the PMB before it got shut down, then, when we all went to the UPPMB before the mods shut that down.
Now, here it is again. Are you trying to incite another Fringe/Apologist war and go for 3?
Really, it's old crap that no one wants to live through again. We've all been widely accepted on this board, unlike the UPPMB. If this keeps up, this group may turn on us too.
Give it a break already.
Amen . I hear ya . I don`t understand why they even follow the Pirates . We all know ownership sucks but does every thread have to be about that. Over and over and over .
You guys must have the same stale arguments from 10 years ago stored in Word documents. You trotted out them out annually on the PMB before it got shut down, then, when we all went to the UPPMB before the mods shut that down.
Now, here it is again. Are you trying to incite another Fringe/Apologist war and go for 3?
Really, it's old crap that no one wants to live through again. We've all been widely accepted on this board, unlike the UPPMB. If this keeps up, this group may turn on us too.
Give it a break already.
Amen . I hear ya . I don`t understand why they even follow the Pirates . We all know ownership sucks but does every thread have to be about that. Over and over and over .
-
Bobster21
Off Season Thread
I was also on that PMB many years ago. It got so nasty that it was no longer fun so I quit it and came here. I think as mods on OBN we try to make sure that doesn't happen to this board. Opposing opinions make the board interesting but when it gets nasty it stops being fun. Hopefully, everyone will enjoy OBN more than the PMB.
Strange that they abolished the PMB without warning but IMDB did the same thing. I always enjoyed the movie discussions there and then one day the message board was gone.
As for the topic at hand, I'm taking a wait and see attitude because we have a new GM and his team. So far he's done very little but he hasn't even had 1 entire non-pandemic off season to work with. We know this organization well enough to all know what they WON'T do. They won't spend money to immediately upgrade the team. We can rail against that all we want but it won't change a thing. NH was supposed to be upgrading the weak system he inherited from Littlefield. He failed. Now BC has the same assignment. I can't say I have confidence he'll succeed but I also can't say I'm sure he'll fail because NH failed before him. And if Evans and Alford hadn't gotten hurt, we might already be giving BC credit for doing something to improve the team. But the overall talent on the MLB roster is deficient to the extent that a major overhaul is needed. Nutting won't open the checkbook for that so BC's attempt to develop from within is our only hope whether we like that or not.
Strange that they abolished the PMB without warning but IMDB did the same thing. I always enjoyed the movie discussions there and then one day the message board was gone.
As for the topic at hand, I'm taking a wait and see attitude because we have a new GM and his team. So far he's done very little but he hasn't even had 1 entire non-pandemic off season to work with. We know this organization well enough to all know what they WON'T do. They won't spend money to immediately upgrade the team. We can rail against that all we want but it won't change a thing. NH was supposed to be upgrading the weak system he inherited from Littlefield. He failed. Now BC has the same assignment. I can't say I have confidence he'll succeed but I also can't say I'm sure he'll fail because NH failed before him. And if Evans and Alford hadn't gotten hurt, we might already be giving BC credit for doing something to improve the team. But the overall talent on the MLB roster is deficient to the extent that a major overhaul is needed. Nutting won't open the checkbook for that so BC's attempt to develop from within is our only hope whether we like that or not.